Headshots: Should they ignore Nanoweave?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Gundem, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. Gundem

    Long ago, Nanoweave simply provided extra HP. This was clearly unwise, as it provided the benefit of Flak and stacked far to well with Resist Shield, as well as hurting BASR's at medium to long range, rendering them incapable of securing an OHK on headshot.

    More recently, it was updated to provide 20% resistance to small arms. This made it distinct from Flak, as it no longer protected against explosive damage.

    Perhaps as a boon for Snipers, they also made it so that Headshots were unaffected by Nanoweave, dealing the full 200% damage they usually deal. This allowed them to OHK any non-boosted target so long as they were in the effective range of their respective BASR.

    But this now presents an issue I don't believe has been brought up, or at least discussed very seriously: Headshots in normal gameplay.

    Now, before you burn me at the stake, hear me out. I'm all for high skill gameplay. I played Team Fortress 2 for years, and thoroughly enjoy it's all-skill no freebies approach to FPS gameplay, and normally I'm not keen on skill-reducing or negating mechanics.

    But when it comes to normal gameplay, honestly I think Nanoweave should effect headshots.

    Let's consider the other suit slots, the obvious competitors to Nanoweave and what must be considered when considering the balance of Nanoweave. Specifically, we are going to look at how each of these slots cannot be nullified like Nanoweave can.

    ASC cannot be ignored like NW. It simply reduces the time it takes for shield regen to start from 10 seconds to 6 seconds, and whether or not this is a strong enough benefit to justify itself, it always is there to benefit. Beyond actually killing you, your opponent can't make your shield regenerate slower magically. Even in death, ASC is at work, possibly allowing your shields to begin regeneration as soon as you are revived. And while you can shoot someone mid-regen to stop their regen, it's not nullifying ASC. In fact, it means that ASC is even more valuable, since it means you will have a greater chance to have enough shields to survive.

    Ammo Belt cannot be ignored like NW. Once again, beyond simply killing a player, you cannot stop them from having 6 spare magazines rather then 2. There is nothing you can do to stop a player with Ammo Belt from not needing to resupply as often, beyond offering yourself as a pin-cushion.

    Grenade Bandoleer cannot be ignored like NW. You can make yourself more resistant to frag grenades with Flak, F-Bangs/Conc's with Clear Vision and EMP's with EMP Shield, but it does not change the fact that the person you face can hold 4 grenades rather then 1.

    Munitions Pouch cannot be ignored like NW. You can repair your vehicle more, but it still means you've repaired your vehicle more then you would have needed were it a heavy without all those extra rockets.

    Utility Pouch cannot be ignored like NW. An engineer with 6 tank mines is an engineer with 6 tank mines, and even if you have EoD, it will be 6 more times you might need to stop, 6 more chances to not pay enough attention, 6 more chances for something to go wrong and you to die. Same with AI mines and C4. Utility Pouch can even nullify Mineguard, assuming they spend the nanites to put 6 tank mines down for a single vehicle.

    Nanoweave, can be ignored. This is the only suit slot that can simply be completely nullified by a player's actions. Even if your kill is not 100% headshots, the headshots you did get caused more damage then a pair of body-shots.

    For all the certs you spend on Nanoweave, and for all the advantages of the other suit slots you forgo when equipping Nanoweave, I believe it is reasonable to expect a reliable and substantial advantage-To say otherwise is to openly admit that the suit options are unbalanced, which means that balancing needs done.

    Headshots are already a massively advantageous strategy. They can already cut a relatively short TTK in half.

    Another factor to consider is the skill-gap of new players Vs. pro players. A skilled player can chain headshots for a vastly reduced TTK. A newer player is highly unlikely to be able to do that.

    PS2 already has a major issue of experienced players dominating newer ones. Why should we encourage that? If a player with poor aim faces a player with exceptional aim, the usage of Nanoweave will not effect the outcome, whether or not it reduces headshot damage. But it does ensure that newer players have absolutely no method of combating them. And then, when two skilled players face each other, one cannot completely disregard the other's choice of suit slot with something that can be learned in a few day's practice.

    As I said, Headshots are already incredibly powerful. Having them deal 20% less damage isn't going to be the end of Araxius. And we can change BASR's to a new damage type if need be, letting them ignore Nanoweave still.

    I simply do not see why it is justified that a suit slot, something designed specifically to provide an objective advantage, is allowed to be so subjective. Perhaps someone could enlighten me if I am incorrect.

    TL;DR reading is hard boo hoo
    • Up x 3
  2. Crayv

    I think it should affect headshots. Generally though snipers think that their gameplay is sacred and nothing should ever be added to counter or even annoy them.

    Scoring a headshot on someone even if it doesn't kill them will still make them seek cover, and if it doesn't then you can easilly kill them with a follow up shot. The only snipers that would really lose out on this are the ones that camp vehicle terminals.

    As for normal gunplay and the rewarding of skill argument I'm sure to see on here; there already is a reward, you get more damage and you are not missing your shots. Not to mention aiming is one of the most basic and the most hardware dependent "skill" in gaming.
  3. 7 Drunk Midgets

    There is something that effectively counters snipers, it's called not letting yourself get sniped. If you don't run through open areas like a moron and you zigzag through areas where you know there's going to be a sniper there's an extremely low chance you're going to get sniped. Besides, snipers are most effective in large battles where there's an abundance of medics so making the target scurry for cover or even outright killing them does little to nothing which is why we seek out isolated targets. Don't be isolated.
    • Up x 3
  4. Scr1nRusher

    Nanoweave is fine now. Its body armor, not a Helmet.
  5. Azawarau

    Sounds like tank play
  6. Gundem

    And remarkably, in the year 3000, we can't make armor that also includes the head?

    For a guy who normally talks about game balance, this is a remarkably "Realism"-centric thought.
    • Up x 4
  7. Scr1nRusher

    Headshots are the great equalizer interms of skill & weapons. Heads shouldn't get any additional protection.
  8. Taemien


    The recoil mechanics are balanced around the current headshot mechanics. Remember all those passes they did to various weapons, especially the LMGs and Burst weapons?

    We don't need the CQC splurgy weapons dominating again. Right now the slower TTK marksman weapons (like the AMC) work well in their range brackets because of NWA not affecting the head.

    Unless you all want to up their damages to compensate. I'd be for that. But then again I wouldn't still support it because of how NWA compares to the other suit slots. It not affecting the head means its not the GOTO suit slot (like it was before). Right now I use other suit slots because I know I will get head shot in CQC anyway. But I'm willing to take the consequences of more damage at range.

    You see NWA provides an Insane bonus at longer ranges. 80% damage of a Gauss SAW at over 80m means .84s TTK (100% accuracy). That's almost double its normal TTK at its normal damage (and probably triple or quadruple the actual TTK due to accuracy at those ranges.. which its not bad at). That's big. And worth the cert investment to NWA.

    But if it affected the head, why wouldn't I use anything but NWA? That means BASR, SASR, Battle Rifles, Scout Rifles, and slow TTK Carbines and Assault Rifles are all nerfed and nerfed badly. I'm sure some of you would love to see Sniper Rifles just outright deleted, but why go so far as to see Battle Rifles, Scout Rifles, and Slow TTK regular weapons nerfed into non-useage to attain that?

    Sorry, but I don't want to see my purchase of Alpha Squad become useless again. Some of us are actually still around.
    • Up x 1
  9. Diggsano

    It would balance out the Oneshot Weapons that every Stalker fears....


    *irony on* But it would be Hell for Snipers dealing just 180% 700-400 (dropoff)dmg *irony of*
  10. Demigan

    It should have an effect on headshots of all non-sniper weapons. It should also be an automatically granted max level skill alongside flak for all normal infantry so new players don't walk into a wall that is build out of a skill-wall of longer-term players as well as a wall where long-term players get a better protection.

    It might seem as a slap in the face of longer-term players, but it will mean more player-retention due to a more fair battlefield for new players and no matter what you do, your headshot gameplay will still reign supreme. It will just not be as ultra-supa-dupa great as it was, it would just be super-supa-dupa great.
    • Up x 1
  11. Gundem

    They can't be an equalizer if the are used against you. New players who aren't as great at chaining headshots at 40 meters won't suffer as badly when someone does chain headshots at 40 meters.
  12. Gundem

    I agree with the balance of long-range weapons, but those aren't quite as prevalent as CQC weapons.

    I'm sure something can be done about them, but as it stands, CQC domination meta still exists, and is only exacerbated by headshots being absolutely unstoppable.

    I think that something could be done to benefit those long-range weapons, but I haven't put any thought to it yet.
    • Up x 1
  13. LaSouris

    I've always believed that the passive ones (ASC, Nanoweave and Flak) were more to improve long term survivability, and not give you a distinct advantage in CQC fights. I.E Oh god there is a guy right there pew pew. The ammo ones are more to increase utility, and adrenaline pump, well, ahahaha.

    Nanoweave is the only one that can be negated, I acknowledge that, but nanoweave is also the only one that gives you the huge advantage in a CQC fight. That extra bullet or two can REALLY help, and I can't possibly count how many LA get away from me because they needed a few more bullets.

    I think it's at a comfortable level right now, and besides, simply adding that bonus would, as has been said, need a total rework of all the weapons that reward accuracy
    • Up x 1
  14. Liewec123

    nanoweave not protecting against headshots was SoE's quick and easy fix, snipers were complaining that they couldn't oneshot people who were using NW, what SoE should have done was increase the headshot multiplier of those sniper rifles to secure the OHK.
    • Up x 2
  15. Scr1nRusher

    not every player is good at headshots so nanoweave balances things out.
  16. freeAmerish

    Yao_O Ya:) Ya;) I want this! So overpowered heavys can´t kill me with one commi hit
    while I´m playing Infiltrator.

    Now seriously they could change it back to 25% because of Heavyside. No more changes we
    have enough unkillable people.
  17. Scr1nRusher

    Thats more of a problem with the Comish then it is with nanoweave or the HA.
  18. Gundem

    So... It balances things, by ensuring the play who isn't as good at getting headshots dies every time?

    Right. I see.
  19. Moridin6

    bolt actions still ohk, then very much yes. clearly we have face/head protection (cosmetics aside) why the hell wouldnt an armor buff work for the head as well?

    i assume flak protects my face from the fire..

    but the extra nano protection only works on Parts of my Completely nano body? o_O
  20. Scr1nRusher

    Did you die to some headshots recently?