Headshots actually do 250% damage

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Zoopshab, Apr 22, 2020.

  1. Zoopshab

    Think of it like this: at any given time, probably most people running around in this game are wearing nanoweave armor. From my understand from the wiki and other sources nanoweave armor doesn't protect against headshots.

    So in more than 50% of cases, the damage actually looks like this

    100 damage bullet & headshot => 200 damage
    100 damage bullet & bodyshot => 100 * 80% = 80 damage

    200 / 80 * 100% = 250%

    Which goes a little ways toward explaining why players capable of consistent headshots are so dominant.
    • Up x 5
  2. Demigan

    This is a problem that has been in the game since they tried to make the game MLG, despite the fact that the game does not offer any population balancing or similar or the fact that it rewards a singular skill over knowing the full range of skills necessary for managing PS2's weapons.

    "but we need to be rewarded for headshots!" is their response. Yes you should be rewarded for headshots, the question is how much. Considering how the current headshot meta rewards high accuracy weapons over other weapons it is too much and needs to be dialed down. The importance of other skills also needs to be increased. Trigger discipline, knowing the weapon's effective range and using it in that range, recoil control, damage output at various ranges, accuracy at various ranges and burst lengths etc. The knowledge and skills should all be rewarded, rather than players eventually being able to ignore them when picking the right weapon and going for headshots almost exclusively.
    • Up x 13
  3. Zoopshab

    MLG = Major league gaming?
    • Up x 1
  4. TRspy007

    Essentially, Planetside 2 does an above average job in setting up new players on the same level (at least in terms of infantry" with veterans. Default weapons are usually the best, they even get attachments and a maxed out ability now.


    Only thing that drags down newer players is that headshot multiplier. Means you can effectively clear a room of noobs all by yourself if you know what you are doing. Sure it's great when you're the one mowing down everybody, going up against full health heavies and 2 shotting them with your pistol, but in the grand scheme of things, the headshot multiplier should be at least tweaked to make the game a bit more friendly.

    I do miss the times nanoweave actually protected from headshots.
    • Up x 1
  5. Lovecraft180

    The game is completely out of control because of this headshot thing. Especially Sniper. They are everywhere and in every distance massively present. I have the feeling that the hitbox for the head has the size of a barn door. I have now canceled my membership. I'm not paying for that frustration anymore.
    • Up x 1
  6. Zoopshab

    I think this game is great. Its a lot better than I remember when it first came out I think they've done a good job, although that is over 9 years. I would love to see them get it to the level of competitive gaming. But, as demigan explained above an I completely agree with him, infantry gameplay needs to be trended towards knowledge and skill. And I will add that knowledge needs to NOT lead you to understand which gun is the most broken so you can abuse it.

    But I mean in order to do anything they need $$ and for that they need subscriptions. I don't think daybreak is a big outfit. And look at the state of modern gaming... so many major releases have just been utter complete crap. Look at the state of the big studios in the last 3 years. 9 years ago Sony put a ton of money into this thing and I don't think we're going to see a similar investment anytime soon.
  7. Somentine

    It's amazing how you never see the people with high acc/hsr bring this up or support it, and if they argue against it they are labeled and dismised as MLG tryhards or something similar.

    The absolute truth is that removing nanoweave (or lowering HS % dmg) would simply lower the skill cap. If that is what people want, then so be it, but do not pretend that knowledge of weapons, aim, positioning, speed, etc. would raise.

    What removing nanoweave would do is buff/fix a few weapons that are really hurt by nanoweave, and lower the overall TTK.
    What removing HS % dmg would do is simply nerf headshots, overall nerfing precision aim. Literally nothing would change(increase) in regards to positioning, aim, speed, knowledge of weapons, etc. or, in simpler terms, it would just be an overall nerf of skill.
    • Up x 1
  8. Demigan

    Lets turn this around:
    Its not amazing that the people with high acc/HSR never bring this up. They are the one's who benefit the most of a high headshot reward. On top of that the more headshots reward these players the less other skills they need, the more they can focus on manual accuracy and ignore other skills and more importantly other weapons that are supposed to trade in which skill they reward the most.

    Arena shooters are best suited for the high accuracy headshot combat. PS2 on the other hand is a far more tactical ahooter (despite its failings). Protecting a one-trick-pony playstyle isnt the way to go especially in PS2 that has so many factors that you can consider between COF, COF growth/shrinkage, recoil, damage degradation, muzzle velocity, ammo capacity, reload speed, stance and movement that focussing on just letting aiming for heads dominate is basically letting the game commit suicide. Which is actually true as the game started bleeding more players per day since the changes were made that caused headshots to be this effective.

    Also I would like to point out that you failed to come up with a good reason to keep it like it is other than "its like this". Can you give any way to gauge how effective headshots need to be? Why a 2.5x higher damage output over nanoweave targets is better than a lower damage output?

    Rather than removing nanoweave completely you could simply reduce all small-arms damage against infantry by 10%. That would remove the "choice" of nanoweave over other choices.

    Also you seem to forget that if headshot % would go down (you make it look like it is completely removed, which is the kind of extreme examples that is to be expected from hypocrites) that other weapons and skills would become more important to master. Instead of relying on just manual aim to do most of your work you would have to focus on all the other factors more. Additionally you ignore the option lf making those skills affect the weapon more by increasing the disadvantages (bigger COF growth for example) but also increasing the advantages of actually performing the associated skills (like trigger discipline, using the right stance etc). On top of that players would need to master more skills to be effective rather than the one.
    • Up x 2
  9. Zoopshab

    How many players do you suppose are using Nanoweave armor at any given time? Most? Almost all? Each class has between 6 and 7 options. If all of those aren't finding this place there's something wrong with the game. Or to put it another way, its taking richness out of the game and steamlining it towards something simple. Same thing with the guns. If not all the guns are being used some of the time, but about 5 are being used all the time, the it's also simplifying the game down from chess to checkers.

    Also, if the game is particularly aiming and headshot based, those are the thing most susceptible to cheating (aimbots, recoil scripts).

    Finally think of it like a business. Planetside 2 wont be around if nobody plays it. The new expansion brought in a bunch of new players how many might have already quit because of the instant headshooting. What good is a game like this if only 100 people play it?
  10. Somentine

    Yet, it doesn't hold true for other aspects of the game. You can find vehicle players that agree certain platforms/weps are too strong against x/y. You can find main class players who agree certain aspects of their class could use nerfs/changes.

    What? You trade risk vs. reward in terms of accuracy when you go for headshots. It trades(balances?) a theoretical lower TTK for a very possible higher TTK than if going for body shots. Apart from that, you need more burst control, better aim, the same movement skills, the same positioning. If you are going for body shots, you need less aim precision and less burst control.

    Says who, for both?

    You act like this doesn't matter when going for headshots... It's actually the opposite for most, the large target means less concern about most aiming factors.

    This is starting to sound like CAI but for infantry.

    Because it works?
    If you want change for the sake of change, then fine.
    If you want to lower the skill cap to allow those who aren't as good at the game have a better chance, I guess that's an argument that could be made.
    Don't pretend that it isn't what it is though.

    A. Nowhere does it even remotely say that.
    B. Your belief that these 'other skills' aren't already just as important is baffling, as if aiming for the head has nothing to do with anything else.

    Same as above point B.
  11. TRspy007


    Very true. I'm not against headshots being rewarded, but cutting the already low ttk in half is pretty strong when combined with the wonderful clientside mechanics.


    Tons of players don't understand it, and lots of people prefer to leave than bother understanding the mechanics of a game that's more complex than others, especially when they already have years less of experience compared to the veterans they will encounter.


    At this point, it's just about retaining players. The headshot multiplier is a pretty big slap to the face for some players, and along with the funky things lat/ping can do, drastically cutting ttk isn't perhaps the best way to reward skilled play, at least if we want to keep some of the players that come check out the game.


    Not sure how we would approach it, but resistances would need a look into.
  12. JibbaJabba

    Sunk 4k, maybe 5k? hours into the game. Yep, I shoot heads.

    I would be in favor of reducing the multiplier some (make it 75% not 100%) but there needs to be some other reward with it. Adrenaline shield, Assimilate implant, max health implant, etc are examples.

    Eliminating it? Nope. Sorry

    The full auto carbines, SMGs, LMGs have a very high skill ceiling because of the headshots. Take that away and the whole skill ceiling flattens, the game becomes boring as **** and everyone quits.

    This is an inherently unfair game but to such an extreme that it becomes fair. If you can't hang in a 1v1 with some killer heavy main because they sunk thousands of hours more doing get-gud than you, fear not. Just make it a 10v1 and be done with it. Listen to that guy whine about overpop instead of him listening to you whine about haxoring or something.

    Or use a shotgun. Low skill floor, low skill ceiling. Easy to get started with.
    • Up x 3
  13. JibbaJabba


    This is not an easy game. It's hard. Like bad hard. But it's fair and rewarding if you stick it out.

    There are a lot of resources and people willing to help. If you wanna quit because it's too hard though, that's all you. Many before you have tapped out as well. No shame in it.
  14. Werkitten

    The bad thing is not that a shot to the head is rewarded. The bad news is that body shots are almost useless. Sometimes there is a feeling that instead of weapons, the character is in the hands of airsoft.
    Above, wrote a proposal to lower the damage from weapons, so that it was easier for beginners. No, it's the opposite, if you increase it - the difficulty of the game for veterans will increase more than for beginners. They will no longer be able to win if the enemy is behind them, but shoots at the body. More realistic gameplay will make you watch your position more, without betting only on AIM.
    Halve the health of the characters and the KD of the current top players will immediately decrease, they will be forced to fear every hit. This is good.
    Also, newcomers are really surprised by the fact that to kill an infantryman from a tank gun, you also need to shoot him in the head, if we are talking about viper or automatic grenade launchers.
    "A 40mm shell does less damage to infantry than a rifle bullet, are you serious?" This is what the person who first encountered it thinks.
    • Up x 1
  15. NotziMad

    I was thinking : we're not all equal in the game..

    And I don't mean skill or experience or how smart you are.

    I mean, some people have cheap PCs, others have computers that are more expensive than my car.

    Same for the connection, some have fibre, some have dsl, also same for other tools that are legal, but that I personally consider like cheating, which I won't get into.

    Obviously, that is true for any online game, but particularly for PS2, I feel the game really isn't fair on everyone.

    __


    Point is, being able to reliably hit head shots is really important in this game, and it's not fair because depending on what connection you have, what PC and so on, that can be remarkably easy, or really difficult.

    I play on a (old but) high end PC, I have a pretty good connection, I don't use other tools or "mods", well, I brought my PC to get upgraded one day, it was gone for only 3 or 4 days. In the meantime, I played on a laptop, and I swear to god, I don't know how many of you play on **** PCs, but I don't know how you do it, I couldn't do it, I couldn't kill anyone, couldn't hit any head shots!
    • Up x 2
  16. Zoopshab

    Its actually a problem of faith: Experienced players can kill new players instantly and at ranges that don't seem possible that it seems like cheating. There is no proof or evidence that it's not aimbots or hacks; there is no pro league where you can watch players do it live to show what is possible and confirm there are no hacks.

    "But you have to prove that we're hacking!". No! This is not a court of law! If were a courtroom then yes I would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. That is not what's going on here between yourself and new players!

    >>> Instead the onus is on you to sell your "I can't believe it's not butter" product to a skeptical buyer (new players). If you can convince a new player that you're not cheating and that you really got that way because of skill, they won't stay and put the time in to get that good. <<<

    "Many have tapped out no shame in it". That is really missing the boat here. Exactly too many players have done that which is why you now have a deficiency of players. What will your 5k hours sunk into the game be worth when it shuts down?
    • Up x 3
  17. Werkitten

    One of the problems in this game is that it is difficult to distinguish technical problems from using cheats. For example, on cobalt, I sometimes see a squad of the VS faction, whose members simply do not register damage, and they themselves kill you from any distance, before their image appears on the screen. What is it, connection problems? Or cheats? And why only one squad, and other members of the same faction or TR players do not have such properties?
    This can be either a squad of players from a region close to the servers, equipped with powerful PCs, or a squad that uses cheats in an organized manner.
    Problems with the technical part of the game significantly complicate the task of fighting cheaters, they mask those who use cheats not too brazenly and the suspicion epizodes of the case is not always an indicator.

    I would call the problems with damage registration and the dependence of weapon characteristics on FPS key to the game, without their elimination, you can not even think about a serious increase in the number of players.
    • Up x 5
  18. OneShadowWarrior

    They got carried away with making headshots overpowered.
    • Up x 3
  19. TRspy007



    Yeah eliminating it would be too drastic, but I would definitely be in favor or some sort of reduction, values closer to 1.5x. Or even just use headshots as an ability to bypass nanoweave/symbiote? Maybe continue to add implants/abilities that give rewards for head-shots to still give advantages to reward skilled play, but yeah, overall headshot mechanics could use some tweaking.
  20. TRspy007



    Yeah funky hit-reg and latency/ping just add to the problem.

    For example, the default knives don't hitreg properly, which means it's easier to land headshots with the "newer" knifes like the faction specific 1hk ones and the amaterasu than with the standard ones.