HC1-Couldn't be a Pulsar C

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Butterlander, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. eldarfalcongravtank

    some factions have certain advantages that others dont. we call this faction flavor around here. if that wasnt the case, i'd wish to have a Repeater, 200-round LMGs and 40-round assault rifles for VS as well as an invincibility shield for my Magrider. sadly, it's not that simple
  2. NCstandsforNukaCola

    Merc isn't a long range carbine
    AMC definitely is
  3. Fellgnome

    Realistically there are no "long range" carbines but all of the 167 tier carbines have an extended minimum damage range over 143 tier, and it's better for short bursts/tap firing to have higher damage bullets.

    T5 AMC does have HVA/higher velocity but in practice it's not substantially better than the Mercenary at any range. AMC also has the issue of an angled pull which gets in the way of leading targets, I'd rather have a bit lower velocity and a 0/0 angle TBH.

    Regardless of the Mercenary which is far more versatile if not better at long range, Pulsar C and AC-X11 are definitely better at range than the T5 AMC.

    T5 AMC and Razor - to a lesser extent Cougar as well perhaps - seem like a result of an overvaluing of bullet velocity, past a certain point, on the part of weapon designers/balancers, I think. Pulsar C and AC-X11 get up to 540 / 550 with HVA, which is enough for a Carbine considering their extra drop-off limits them so much at range that long range for a carbine just isn't the same as it is for an LMG or AR.
  4. Butterlander

    Faction flavor can result in imbalance.

    The idea is asymmetrical balance.

    If TR having big mag sizes = can't have good accuracy/ttk guns for mid-long range, that's an imbalance. Because 5 rounds of ammo isn't worth worse stats especially on longer range gun which you usually don't need to mow through multiple targets like in close ranges with more dense infantry fights.

    If they want to increase reload more or whatever, that's fine. Making gun weaker just to have more bullets, not fine especially when we only have one option. Cougar, without the 5 rounds, is statistically inferior to all other carbine except the really bad burst or underbarrel guns.
  5. SpaceZeal0t

    Woah now that is a little OP for Vanu there!
  6. Bantaverish

    My 2 cents is carbines should suck less in general.

    I don't think they need the extra damage tier drop-off. It's not like LA or Engi are threatening to become as popular for infantry combat as the Heavy Assault master class right now.

    Or at least give the lower RoF/higher TTK carbines one less tier of drop-off. Cougar, T5 AMC, Razor, Pulsar C - balance them out better in whatever way but make them actually good for longer ranges.
  7. StillMostlyClueless

    Uh, the Cone of Fire is much tighter. Being a Razor Clone isn't a bad thing when the Razor is a bloody good gun.
  8. Butterlander

  9. Corezer

    TTK is a largely irrelevant stat.

    at close range, it's about who has initiative, at distance it is about accuracy.

    DPS is a heavy vs heavy thing, where health pools are big enough to notice the difference, and since heavies don't use carbines...

    seriously, you put the pulsar C up on some pedestal and call the cougar "plinker status" due to the "MASSIVE" difference of 27 rpm... the problem is you.
  10. Fellgnome

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  11. patrykK1028

    By that I can say you havent even see its stats. Im not even saying you tried it in VR or even bought it.
    BTW some people say that even the worst weapons are awesome. I know many people who like Beamer :eek: Maybe you just are one of them?
  12. p10k56

    If we got bandit clone it will be nerfed next week after release thanks to NC QQ.
    So razor clone was only way to got our hand on 167 carbine.
    But don't worry some "Cougar OP please nerf" will surely show on forum:rolleyes:
  13. Corezer

    TTK of a cougar is like .55 seconds, ttk of a pulsar C is .52

    yeah, .03 seconds between 2 longer ranged carbines is largely irrelevant. the .05 second difference between a longer ranged cougar and a mid range mercenary is largely irrelevant, the .124 seconds between a longer ranged cougar and a close range serpent is only relevant when you both have a british standoff gunfight, but in most cases the battle is won by initiative, so again, largely irrelevant.
  14. StillMostlyClueless

  15. Fellgnome

    TTK is not as simple in practice game, however. The differences can be exacerbated by many things.

    You could act like the TTK of most weapons is irrelevant, but it just isn't. A split second can be the difference between a target moving before you finish them off, or the difference between them getting a killing shot off before your finishing round his resulting in a kill trade, etc.

    TTK on stationary targets at under 10m =/= the average encounter in game.
  16. Corezer

    even if you ran a million scenarios to up the relevancy of TTK, it would still be a factor half of the time at best.

    and of those 50% of occasions where it's a factor, it isn't always the deciding factor.

    maybe 1 in 10 deaths have I said "if only I were using the serpent and he the trac5, things would have been different, and that's a .054 difference. the 27rpm between a cougar and a pulsar C? resulting is a .046 difference in TTK provided a 9 shot kill?

    Oh no, my 20/10 vision can see that he got that fatal shot off .03 seconds before I could kill him, woe is me, woe, woe, whoa:eek:

    or... get this... maybe you are just a typical human comforting yourself by displacing the blame for your failures.

    again, the problem is you.
  17. Fellgnome

    I guess we can only agree to disagree. I notice the difference in practice and it's quite significant for me.
  18. NConical

    This guy gets it.

    I don't see any TR asking for smaller magazines. Until you don't have more bullets per mag you don't get equal stats everywhere else, sorry.
  19. Snorelamp

  20. ATRA_Wampa-One

    It's not so much larger magazines that's the problem, it's damage per mag.

    200x20 = 4000 (What NC Exclusive Carbine and AR's had)
    143x30 = 4290 (Most VS Carbines & AR's)
    200x24 = 4800 (NC Exclusive Carbine & AR's)
    125x40 = 5000 (TR Exclusive Carbine & AR's)
    143x35 = 5005 (NS Carbine & AR's)
    167x30 = 5010 (Most NC Carbines & AR's)
    143x40 = 5720 (Most TR Carbines & AR's)

    Now I'm fine with TR having 143x40 AR's and Carbines for their faction flavor, but the fact that NC got their exclusive 200 damage weapon magazine size buffed from 4000 potential damage to almost 5000 potential damage for free while all the remaining 143 AR's and Carbines were left to rot frankly sucks.

    5000 damage per magazine should be the standard for AR's and Carbines and simply having marginally faster reload times doesn't make up for it at all.
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