Hands down, Reaver is ridiculously OP

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Junkru, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. Junkru

    This thing turns in a dime compared to mosquito even with less certs. I literally have to wait for the other guy to
    turn. Can do full roll over with a flick of a wrist, with Mossy i can only dream about doing that.

    And the evasive maneuvers you can do with Reaver... Esf are very imbalanced what i have witnessed.

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  2. RabidIBM

    Perhaps follow up with some recorded game play, even if only out of the VR training area, comparing times to pull off the same maneuvers would help.
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  3. adamts01

    It's all in your head. They all yaw/roll/pitch at the same speed. What makes the Reaver the most maneuverable is its far superior vertical thrust.
  4. iller

    100% Guarantee this was a ShidPost
  5. Demigan

    Its quite literally the opposite.
  6. Liewec123

    all ESF dogfights come down to skill, the only significant difference between reaver and the other ESFs
    is that it has a head to head hitbox far larger than mozzies and literally twice the size of scythe.

    you might have had grounds for QQ when reaver had this large hitbox but also had more firepower to make up for it,
    airhammer used to be a literal air-shotgun, if you could get near you could 3/4 shot enemy ESFs.
    TR and VS also didn't have a rapid fire nosegun like Vortek, but that changed years ago.

    so now they all deal similar damage, its just far easier to hit a reaver than the others.
  7. Botji

    Reaver does have a few advantages though.

    Mustang nosegun has like a 11% DPS advantage over Needler and 8% over the Saron which is not much to brag about but its something.
    But the Rotary versions for both TR and VS are almost identical on DPS while the NC Vortec has a 20% DPS advantage, which does come with ammo disadvantage and thus a small total damage per clip disadvantage compared to the TR(maxed ammo capacity puts Vortek equal with VS Turbo laser, also max ammo cap for total damage) but its not really comparable to the DPS advantage is has over them.

    Then as others have pointed out the Reaver has the best upward thrust and boosters which both are a huge part of ESF mobility and speed, mobility is also probably the #1 rank trait a ESF wants to have.

    The reason Reavers are 'balanced', if any aircraft could ever hope to tag that word on them without copious amounts of sarcasm, its because it has a large hitbox to nerf its ability to avoid shots.

    Unlike the Scythe that has the advantage of a slim front and side profile but large top/bottom, a Reaver can always use its main advantages. The moment someone does a fast manoeuvre against a Scythe it loses a lot of its profile advantage, it only works if its actually looking at the target but the netcode that we all know and love means that what the Scythe is looking at is the target ~0.5 second in the past where it used to be on the targets screen so circle fights or rapid up/down shifts simply means the Scythe presents a big target and there is not really anything a Scythe pilot can do about it because they have to look and aim at the target they see on their screen to get any hits.

    Not to mention said advantages of the Scythe is almost meaningless when more than 1 enemy is involved as its fairly easy to just not line up and force it to show a top/bottom to at least one of you, its why I personally think the Scythe is the weakest of the ESFs(not counting solo Pancakes) because the Mossie has a similar advantage with a small profile but theirs is small no matter which direction you look at them from, making it easier to avoid shots in a 'large' fight with them and unlike the Reaver the Scythe does not have huge boosters... or AI weapon that is in anyway up to ESF vs ESF fights.

    For highly skilled pilots it probably doesnt matter that much since most seem to have at least 1-2 pocket allies with them at all times and they have enough experience to keep fights short so things like profile doesnt have a big impact but for newer pilots its a big thing, its also where I think the Scythe gains most of its infamy from because they dont have the experience to make good use of reverse manoeuvres and get stuck in a mostly stationary "nose to nose" fight where the Scythe does exceptionally well.

    I think if I had to compare the Reaver its kinda like the Magrider, possibly the worst of the bunch for inexperienced players while people who have a lot of time in it can make it dance... though unlike the Magrider the Reaver actually does have the advantage on damage so perhaps not the best comparison but close enough for me.
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  8. csvfr

    Claiming that the Reaver has large DPS advantages is misleading. For anything but a 1-clip which is only relevant for ambushes, reload speeds also need to be taken into account. It is not uncommon for pilots of similar skill to empty several clips in a dogfight as the majority of bullets miss their target.

    The realistic DPS values can be calculated using the more advanced formula
    where CLIPTIME is the time needed to empty the clip

    The Reaver Rotary has the following stats according to the wiki:
    • 240 DMG (before 100m)
    • 750 RPM
    • 35 MAGSIZE (upgraded)
    • 2.25 RELOAD SPEED
    So it uses 2.8 seconds to empty the clip and 2.25 seconds to reload. Thus it dishes out 35*240=8400 at rhytmic 5.05 second intervals for 1663 DPS. The Mossie Rotary has these stats:
    • 150 DMG (before 100m)
    • 1000 RPM
    • 60 MAGSIZE (upgraded)
    So it uses 3.6 seconds to empty the clip + 2 seconds to reload. Damage output is 60*150=9000 at 5.6 second intervals or 1607 DPS. This is a difference of 3.75% DPS, not 20%. Furthermore the Reaver Rotary loses 97 DMG at 200m, whereas the Mossie only loses 50. As such the Mossie actually has about 8% DPS advantage at this range.

    At longer ranges hovermode afterburner maneouvers will not increase angular velocity as much w.r.t. the opponent origin, i.e. the Reaver's strength is less noticable when it comes to aim correction and positioning. This is also when hitbox size differences become noticable as it ain't to much of an issue to hit Mosquitoes up close. So play your ESF to the faction specific strenght I guess? Reaver = prefer close range, Mosquito = prefer long range.
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  9. Botji

    So you dont think having a 20% DPS advantage on the close range, ambush weapon, is a decently large advantage?
    The reason I did not add in reload speed is because they are used at close range and ideally from a ambush so usually there is no point in adding it, either they die right there and then or they are burning/close to burning and your reload is done before they can effectively fight back.

    You dont need 1 shot potential if the weapon can fire twice before the enemy can do anything about it.
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  10. csvfr

    Sure, it is an advantage in a tiny niche and fraction of encounters. ESFs appear on the engagement radar at 200m so the Reaver will be noticed slightly before coming within optimal range. Good pilots tend to react immediately on this forcing the Reaver to approach from very advantageous angles and close the distance quickly if it hopes to deliver the instantaneous DPS in an ambush against anything but a noob or A2G farmer.

    At 200m, the Mosquito Rotary faces only a slight (7.25%) instantaneous DPS disadvantage but enjoys a 0.8s - almost 30% - longer cliptime. By turning an ambush to a dogfight, or not being ambushed in the first place, the Mosquito has the upper hand as long as it can keep the Reaver at a distance. I think this compensates for the very close range DPS of the Vortec.
  11. Pacster3

    I will never understand why people always discuss about once in a blue moon situations. How often do you have kong to mid range face to face dogfights with nobody else fireing at the players or one of both starting the fight from behind? So front profile or mid to long range does not matter much.
    We had the same discussion about scat MAXes that had no range...but have been vastly overpowered in situations that are most common for MAXes.
    Or we talk about how great magriders are if they can do long range fights from hills...but that just ain't the fights that matter. Usually stuff like that happens in stalemates that lead to nothing after all.

    Balance needs to be based on most common situations...
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  12. csvfr

    The most relevant stat, Aircraft KPU, i.e. how many aircraft the average pilot kills on a given day, only support the conclusion that the Scythe Maelstrom underperforms, and that the Reaver Vortek and Mosquito Rotary are more or less equal:

    In the image, the Scythe is represented by the blue line which is on the bottom almost every day and approximately 2 units below the other lines. This means that the average Maelstrom user downs 2 aircraft less than the other factions. The orange line (Mosquito) and the grey line (Reaver) intertangle over the entire period of 1 year, so can be assumed to be comparably effective in live conditions.

    https://ps2alerts.com/ has a vehicle KDR list that says:
    • Mosquito: 2.49
    • Reaver: 2.48
    • Scythe: 2.07
    • Dervish: 1.98
    Of course this is based on tracking millions of kills, so may include events that happened years ago and does not necessarily reflect current conditions given the balance adjustments the game regularly receives.