Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by ReNz0r, Apr 24, 2015.

  1. Goretzu

    Irrelevent to the point I was orginally making I'm afraid, a HA still kills quicker at long range with a long range LMG and quicker at short range with a SMG or Auto-shotty or PA Shotty.

    Like I said good pilots don't get hit by dumbfires, as it only take a minimum of precautions to avoid all but the luckiest of shots, poor pilots do, most certainly, but G2A lock-ons still get many more kills.

    No, but it does CLEARLY shows you did not in the remotest sense "fix my post". ;)

    If you kill them "all the time" then clearly they aren't remotely unkillable. What % of killing HA "all the time" would you find "acceptable"?

    50 HAs vs 20 HAs, 10 LA, 1 Inf, 5 engis and 14 Medics - which one wins all of the time?

    The base movement rate for HA drops to whatever it was in PS1 (it was significantly slower).
    The base armour of HA is increase (effectively increasing HPs).
    Shield protects against AOE damage and nothing else.

    That reduces the 1on1 ability of HA and removes the "I win shield!!!111" everyone endlessly complains about (and makes medikit spam much less useful without the current shield), yet retains the HA as a Heavy Assault.

    The still need to nerf medikit spam however.
  2. Savadrin

    The part that bothers me the most here is 1 INF, but it's accurate. I wish we had more use, but any time someone suggests giving us a new objective ability or weapon (like the Archer) everyone screams NAHH INFS HAVE EVERYTHING ALREADY HURRRRRRR.

    Sad panda.
    • Up x 1
  3. Dualice

    We could turn this into a "nerf NS-11A" thread whilst we're at it? :D

    To the topic at hand... I play mostly medic these days, and take on heavies unless they're clearly and significantly a better player than I am. If I know there is no chance I can beat them, I fall back and provide support to the guys that can. That I'd be pushing to engage them (directly or otherwise) at all is most likely falling into the self-serving team deathmatch sort of mentality, of which there are several probable causes. The outfit I play with (great guys, don't get me wrong), and what I perceive as the general stagnation of development.

    I don't have qualms with the HA shield per se, but like others I think the package as a whole offers too much with too few downsides besides glowing and slowing when you hit "F".
  4. ConradHorse

  5. TheFlamingLemon

  6. DeadlyPeanutt

    lol, right to the point
  7. Goretzu

    Yeah, I think that's just the unfortunate reality though, and I say that as someone that played Inf a fair bit in PS1 and in PS2.
    If they made Infs as viable in a mass/direct assault in a firepower/surviability sense as say HA then Infs in small battles or 1 on 1 would be massively (ridculously) powerful.

    In fact that is the problem with stealth classes in most games unfortunately, which is to say if you have stealth you tend to have to be a glass-cannon, and no glass-cannon works as well as a tank in mass PvP unless they have range or serious AOE - if there was a simple solution to this it would be used, I think (it was the same in PS1, just in PS1 there was much more viablity and reason to actually infiltrate a base).

    I don't really see a new weapon changing that (giving Infs Archers isn't going to suddenly make people want 10 Infs in the above situation, for example, even if you took Archers AWAY from Engis) and it is hard to think of a weapon that would (that isn't just overpowered).
    Some other form of utility might help perhaps, but again it is hard to think of what; sensors and EMP grenades are already vastly powerful in team play (a MAX crash with an inf sticking up sensors and more importantly EMPing the hell out of a room just before they crash it will be much, MUCH more successful than one without that), it is just that you don't really need more than a couple of Infs to achieve the result.

    Although equally I don't think Infs are useless, they are great for solo play and non-organsied play, they just don't have as much organised play use as some classes.
  8. Azawarau

    Stalker cloak and take advantage of unwatchful enemies on the front line
  9. Jubikus

    Infils can stand on their own as a combat class just fine as SMG infil you simply get spotters down and use the information it gives you to ambush appropriately. Its not a class thats meant to go toe to toe, like the light assault its a flanking class. The issues are that the cloak unlike the jetpack is an ability that gets countered simply by experience youll eventually just notice infiltrators running around and Infiltrator is the only infantry unit that cant deal with enemy Maxes.

    An infiltrator if used properly in a sniper roll can still be largly beneficial as it usually can cause a distraction element (as long as he has 1 person sitting in the spawn or elsewhere trying to counter snipe him hes making up for his body not being on the point) in addition to some additional information via spotting from their vantage point some denial in the form of sniping enemys on the way to the point recovering or trying to pull sundys to give their team better spawns and last the ability to take out deployables such as tank mines beacons AI mines and sentry turrets if he has a line of sight on them.

    The big issue is infiltrators that play objectively like this are rare and undervalued by platoons as platoon leaders usually dont see any value outside of how many people they can fit in a small room (Grenade fodder). Dont get me wrong you need people on the point but i think people put too many in there thees days and it gets crowded, surrounded and spammed with grenades spread out a little.

    Ps. More infils = more OP EMP grenades people really need to remember that infils have those because we all know they are insanely good.
  10. Savadrin

    An INF or three with Archers could wreak havoc on a MAX zerg if played well. At worst, it would give me an option other than redeploying, or attempting to play whack-a-mole with engineers while the maxes who KNOW I can't do **** just focus my whole area. The Archer, in all other respects as a BASR which it's listed as, sucks. So it's trading normal infantry efficiency for MAX efficiency. I would take it situationally, because I don't need a game breaking role for INF, I just want a little more viability in more situations.

    True story. A coordinated few can be really useful or painful, but I wouldn't expect to see them used as much as other classes.

    I do this regularly. It's fun playing matador to tanks while knifing people. If not always great for the KDR, when you go on an engi/sniper streak or take tanks down via killing drivers, it does end up being both satisfying and useful.

    1) This is why I'd like access to the archer for specific situations without having to change classes.

    2) I do all of these things as often as possible. There's another thread where I'm in an argument about saying that INFs ought to be able to hack tank mines, with a percentage failure rate. Nothing more amusing for all parties involved than watching an INF blow himself up. But yes, you do eventually have to deal with an INF. I also spend a lot of time in enemy sniper nests, or in their back line sundy areas.

    3) We exist, but I don't know how many of us there are. One of the reasons I don't like to squad and won't join an outfit is because I like to play INF or run vehicles, and as I'm new to this whole genre of gaming I'm way far behind in infantry twitch and technique - so yeah I could play medic as pure support but I don't want to either tell people "Nah, I'm staying inf," or end up being annoyed that I'm obligated to spend my time doing something I'm not really interested in doing.

    So while I'm always trying to look at the big picture battle and see how I can be effective on a larger scale - sometimes it's hard to coordinate the bridge hacks in Amerish with pubs like me who don't read region chat. Or to lead with my EMP on a rush when I don't know EXACTLY when they're going. Sensor darts are nice and have a pretty sweet payoff in a large fight, but to get best use I'm chained to an engineer.

    I try though ;)
  11. Azawarau

    As a person who plays MAX often

    Sniper fire really hurts and it makes me hide

    A well played infiltrator should be hiding behind enemy lines to prevent them from pushing forward by attacking the places they hide
    • Up x 1
  12. Zombo

    oh mr, "objective" would you say a freckin jetpack doesn't bring a distinct combat advantage?
    or a cloak, in that matter?
    or being able to revive your teammates in about one second?
    or how about unlimited ammo? i am pretty sure in a betelgeuse discussion i heard that was OP as well

    HA is fine, people need to get good and go for headshots
  13. Goretzu

    Yep, as I said EMP grenades (along with motion sensors) can turn a failed attack into successful one - and a successful on into a wildly successful one.

    The problem is that you only need a few Inf to do this reliably.

    Although as I said this is effectively an unsolveable problem, as you cannot have a stealth based class as widely useful as a HA/Engi/Medic (PS2's holy trinity I guess), because of the PvP problems it presents. The last class I remember with a combination of range, stealth and decent toughness was the DAOC Albion Scout and that caused all manner of issues until it was seriously nerfed.

    I agree Infs are a good class (I play inf a fair bit), they just aren't a class that you need loads of in a coordinated attack.

    Yeah it would certainly give Infs more flexibility, I just don't think in organised platoons it would really result in an increase in the numbers of Infs used, as an Engi with an Archer is generally going to be more use in such a platoon than an Inf with one, once you already have the couple of Infs you need for scouting, Motion Sensors and EMPing (and for Infs in those roles I don't know that the Archer would be the best option).

    It has been a bit of a curse of MMOs since they began that some classes tend to be more wanted in groups, and other classes are often percieved (rightly or wrong) as more soloist or only needing a few. It is a hard and sometime impossible problem to solve.

    This was just another way PS1 was (IMO) better to be honest, it allowed you to build a character specifically tailored to how you wanted to play it, rather than use the PS2 "class" systems.
  14. DCWarHound

    I disagree, that one INF can make the difference.EMP grenade makes the heavy shield useless and creates confusion, the motion spotter can show your team when an enemy is going to come around a corner and helps allies angle their grenades to focus on the mass of the enemy forces.the INF can also pick off targets at range with no way for the target to retaliate and it's instant death.

    Infiltrators have their niche and they can be versatile (i still dislike stalker cloak though since it has such a hard counter)
  15. Azawarau

    Its only a used if they know youre there.

    Remember that having the flashlight on reveals players to enemies as well so you can stay safe and hiding until someone notices the messes youre making

    At that point if someone has a flashlight youll have to fight.

    Make your run worth its life
  16. DCWarHound

    You just need to stay in between allies.If enemies can shoot at your allies and at you, you are in a position to shoot back and kill them regardless of what cover they have (unless it covers the head)

    In the open and at range, darklight isn't a threat to infiltrators and neither are heavies.
  17. Azawarau

    I actually prefer to be behind enemies. They take a hit and hide to recover then die

    Or they think theyre safe somewhere to shoot someone from a distance and get a surprise from behind

    The other thing is hiding near points so when an ally zerg comes i can EMP spam and kill/ distract as much as possible while the push is going on
  18. TheFlamingLemon

    • Up x 1
  19. Azawarau

    "What if the heavies go for headshots?"

    Why does this never end that argument
  20. Zombo

    because heavies can't go for headshots from the hip, light assaults, medics and engis can easily do that, moving at way faster speeds