[Suggestion] HA Shield Ideas

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by PatateMystere, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. PatateMystere

    After a few tweaks in HA Shields, I think they are still not found their right place in the game.

    Speaking of the class, the HA is suppose to be a defensive class: low mobility, Heavy tanking, heavy weapons, hight magazine size.
    The main role of that class is to give support, fire suppression and tanking damages to protects medics and engies behind them.

    However, defensive class, means, standing still, hold positions. In this game, this mean: get killed.
    So, they nerfed the HA shield because of agressive HA were too much tanky but in the process, the defensive HA, the right one is not able anymore to hold defensive position properly.

    There are my ideas to solve this problem, trying to give HA a good defensive, tanking capability without giving too much power in agressive gameplay.
    NMG and Adranaline shields have become less usefull for HA as the resist shield can tank much damages.

    Nanite mesh generator:

    - Shield power: 400 hp.
    - The shield is not sensitive to head shot. (Yes this mean that a headshot on the shield is a normal shot, yes this is a shield it doesn't have a head.)
    - The shield regenerate fast when iti's off.
    - The shield regenerate when the HA is standing still.
    - When the HA is moving with the shield on, the shield quickly lose power (HP) . (HA can only walk a few meters with the shileld on)
    (Shield mechanics are close to the stalker cloaking device, but with higher regeneration/ degradation rates)

    Adrenaline shield:

    - Shield power 350 hp.
    - The shield is not sensitive to head shot.
    - The shield regenerate slowly when it's off.
    - The shield regenerate by X% of the damages the HA deals to his target. (depend on shield level)
    - The shield quickly lose power when the HA is moving.
    (Shield mechanics are close to the stalker cloaking device, but with higher regeneration/ degradation rates)

    Resist Shield:

    - This shield is actually a good balance for more agressive gameplay.

    NEW - Phalanx Shield:

    - Shield power 300 hp.
    - The shield is not sensitive to head shot.
    - The shield regenerate fast when it's off.
    - The shield regenerate when the HA is standing still.
    - The shield rapidly lose power when moving.
    - The shield gain 20% additionnal power per active Phalanx Shields in a 1m radius.

    Moar This is Sparta! gameplay.

    Those shield changes are my ideas to improve defensive capability of HA. Shield is immune to headshot: it take two bullets for snipers to kill HA but they can still one shot HA runing in the open without his shield.
    More defensive gameplay: the HA is hard to kill in ambush (he is waiting for you with shield up and big smile), but with NMG or AS equiped, a 1v1 in the open will make him a little bit stronger but easy target (he has to stand still to benefit from all the shield power)

    *HP and values are just here to give a more reality to the idea. They have obviously to be balanced but it doesn't change the whole idea behind it*
  2. Eternaloptimist

    I've always thought that HA is an offensive, objective storming and room breaking class (HA = Heavy Assault). I don't much care and I don't play HA any more...........just sayin'. But wouldn't that change some of your suggestions? I guess the idea that the HA has to stand still to get the benefit of an overshield goes out the window for an attacking class.
  3. Demigan

    There was nothing wrong with the old HA. There is only something wrong with the game's meta completely catering to HA's. Almost every single objective in the game is met through either using your health and DPS to breach through towards objectives or using your health and DPS to defend objectives.

    We need objectives that give Infiltrators, LA and Medics more roles. Objectives that require placement (medics for instance placing miniature AMS generators) or objectives that require stealth or mobility to destroy (things that can be destroyed by small-arms and give an advantage after destruction, but are tough to reach with HA's) etc.
    • Up x 1
  4. Valthis78

    The only problem with the old overshield was bad players. HA is the main infantry force and have no other role than to get kills yet get nerfed for doing that.
  5. Scr1nRusher

    The HA shield is fine right now, except for resist shield.

    if this were in the game i would be a sniper
  7. Demigan

    Wouldn't you say that the same counts for LA?

    Also did you notice how every single objective in the game is best achieved with a class "who's only role is to get kills"? The HA is best at overloading generators, which have to be defended while they overload, the HA is best as capturing bases because you need to defend the points afterwards. The HA is best at defending and attacking all the chokepoints and defensive perimiters that will pop up in every fight because of their DPS, continuous LMG fire and health making them tough enough and strong enough to defend against extended attacks. They are also the best when facing vehicles and MAX's head on compared to any other class with their (resource-free toolslot) rocketlauncher.
    Also, why should the HA be the main infantry force? Originally the LA was supposed to be the main infantry force, hence we still start out as LA and you return to LA when you die as a MAX. So why shouldn't we try to get all classes equal usage in infantryplay? Make the medic, infiltrator and LA just as useful in the metagame as the HA, there's absolutely no reason not to but all the reason to actually do it. The more variation we see in the classes used the less stale the game comes and the more beatiful and diverse the tactics and stories become.

    Right now it's more on the level of "I was <class>, I shot someone, I won because I managed to hit more". Wouldn't it be so much more wonderful if we could exclaim things like "we thought we were doomed, but our Medic placed a deployable cover that gave us enough of an edge to keep fighting. Two enemy infil's nearly took out the shield with a flanking attack. Our infiltrator motion spotters had alerted us and we could kill them before they did any damage. Unfortunately when we thought we were going to make it an enemy LA managed to detonate a jumpjet fuel canister by dropping and shooting it in our mids, it didn't kill anyone with shields up but we never could recover from that much damage after the enemy pushed in with their own shields up".
  8. Foxirus

    You could just do away with the panic shield all together. Give them a Nano weave/Flak armor that only heavy assaults can use. Blocking 30% of all small arms damage in place of where the sheilds currently are.

    If these can be combined with the other Defensive slot versions, The numbers would indeed need to be changed. You don't want a heavy running around with 50% bullet resistance at all times.
  9. Demigan

    That... would actually be worse. You would give them an always active 300 extra effective health that does not have disadvantages like health drain while active, slowed movement and you still have your LMG and rocketlauncher. You effectively make them stronger against flanking attacks!

    It doesn't really solve anything. It's like the last change bringing the shield down from 750 to 450. Yes it makes the other classes more competitive in direct combat, but it does not change anything about who's the best use-able in the metagame. As long as you do not change the metagame where tanking and higher DPS are the primary and practically the only ways to win the Heavy will rule supreme. Even if you removed his shield his capability to carry an LMG coupled with a rocketlauncher make him a strong contender, although a much less powerful choice.
  10. Ryme_Intrinseca

    LMGs are worse than ARs and carbines - slightly lower dps on average, worse recoil and CoF, etc. The extra bullets only make a difference in group kill (3+) situations, which are very niche. Take away their shield and HAs are at a disadvantage in a head to head fight against an engy, medic or LAs. Not really what you expect from a heavy assault...
  11. Valthis78

    Bad players will defend the decision however they need to. LMGs are the worst class of primary weapons, rockets do jack all to vehicles unless used en masse, and without support no group of all HA can hold a position indefinitely.
  12. TheFlamingLemon

    No overshield, replace it with new abilities, like something similar to the Aegis shield for NC maxes
  13. Demigan

    Spoken like a true hypocrite.

    "No group of all HA can hold a position indefinitely".
    Yes, but they can hold out the longest. Also when mixing and matching classes, the strongest group consists out of mostly HA with a few support mixed in, not counting buying expensive MAX's with resources. With a group like that you can beat the most types of combat scenario's in the game.

    You are using a fake argument. You are blaming "bad players" rather than come up with an actual argument. LMG's aren't the worst. They might be a little bit weaker in 1v1, but PS2 is about mass combat and you'll find 3+ combat everywhere or you are ghost capping. LMG's are powerful, there's no denying. Rocketlaunchers might need groups to beat vehicles, but they have the best direct-combat firepower. Almost every other AV weapon needs either stealth, mobility or both to be used and cannot be properly used when the tank is already firing at you. This is a severe oversight in the infantry AV capabilities but that's a discussion for another day. And the end result is that the HA has an LMG combined with a Rocketlauncher. Not to mention a shield that easily compensates for any lowered DPS of the LMG to survive long enough assuming equal skill levels of both combatants.

    And that's why we need a meta change. Do you know how stupid it is to call me a bad player "that defends the decision" (which can only mean the decision to lower HA shields) even though in my first post in this very thread I said we should put HA's shields back to 750 health? I liked that, even though my main is LA and I barely touch the HA. The thing I didn't like was how the HA was valuable everywhere in the metagame, while other classes had less value or were far less multifunctional than the HA.
  14. Ryme_Intrinseca

    Well, to have a bit of that discussion now, I don't see the harm in at least giving AV grenades to other classes. HAs would still have concussion grenades as their unique. You could maybe argue for giving the LA an AV weapon of some sort in its tool slot (even just move C4 there to allow medkit+C4).
    I didn't mind the HA shields at 750 but I think it would be the end of other classes if they put it back there now. HAs are used to 450, so they'd be brutal back at 750.

    I also think it's pretty much intrinsic to the classes that the HA is valuable everywhere, simply because more HP is always useful in an FPS. The other combat orientated classes are more situational, but that doesn't mean they're worse - they just have high highs and low lows. An LA on a high point overlooking the objective is worth much more than an HA, just as an SMG infil in a small or outdoor fight can pick off enemies (including HAs) at will. In fact I've said before that I think an infil is if anything a bit better than the HA overall as a slayer class, simply because you can always find small fights or big outdoor fights but only sometimes find the big indoors fights in which an HA excels. Since no one much agreed with that I guess I'll have to say that the class meta is about right.
  15. PatateMystere

    Lot of HP and medium fire power but sustain = tank, off tank class. It's more effective as defensive class than attaking. The defense breaking class is the MAX. Lot of HP and much more fire power.
    Assault rifle and carabine have much damages.
  16. PatateMystere

    I agree. I just used the new overhealth value to be more understanding but it would work better with the old values.
    Objectives are currently the same every time. Maybe generators should be placed in upper grounds where only LA can go and capturing point should be a hack from infiltrators device. (it's suppose to be a base hacking).

    I would like to see the HA more where he is the best: defense, tanking damages for friends. They have been nerfed because of the strong 1v1 capability, because of the shield. Making the shield stronger while not moving reduce the 1v1 capability but doesn't reduce the tanking capability in defense.
    • Up x 1
  17. Ryme_Intrinseca

    Do you even lockdown, brah?
  18. PatateMystere

    Never, I play NC :D
    • Up x 1
  19. Demigan

    Giving everyone access to AV grenades is a start. Infantry should be required to either sacrifice damage potential or range as long as it's a resource free option. So a 1m range free-resource weapon could potentially still have the DPS of a 350 resource vehicle.The more resources they spend the less effort it should be to rival vehicle's range and firepower.

    I don't think that LA's should get C4 in the toolslot. Although I think that C4 is a perfect example of how you could balance the range, firepower and resources for infantry weapons it would step too much on the tank player's emotions in the current meta. As an alternative proposition: All infantry get a second toolslot that can carry either anl AA, AV or AI weapon. Most options would be non-lethal, nerfing vehicle capabilities rather than damaging them. From Healing grenades/smoke grenades being capable of decreasing damage resistance of vehicles/infantry to tools that reduce maneuverability and speed to EMP tools that knock out the use of abilities, scopes and destroy the HUD elements (even when players use 3rd party HUD's they are still missing their clearscope, radar and possibly engagement radar), and all the way up to weapons that actually damage vehicles. Think an Engineer that uses a special nanite-welding tool to deconstruct vehicles or infiltrators doing a vehicle hack that does some temporary damage. A few resource costing tools could also fit in this slot. For instance a vehicle stealing tool (useable against empty undeployed vehicles only to prevent Infiltrators having too much power), timed demolition charges that give ample of warning for the occupants to get out and clear them with small-arms fire etc.

    Well about time Heavies got smarter. I think that with proper encouragement and meta-elements that there is absolutely no problem with a 750 overshield HA even now that they got used to 450 overshield. For one they would get used to 750 within a week and two with proper metagame the reward won't be expressed in kills while defending a point, but in accomplished goals of which defending a point or overloaded generator is just the HA-specific things. We need goals that the LA and Infiltrator would excell at. Imagine if there were small but special terminals spread out throughout bases that Infiltrators could hack for either an advantage (special shield going down, control of all the turrets, Spawnroom gets shut down if all terminals are hacked, the terminals could create no-deploy zone's for hostiles so hacking is required to place Sunderers and make the Sunderer placement more obscure etc etc) or a faster capture of the base.
    The same for LA, they need goals and objectives tailored to them. Things that require high mobility to get in and destroy, then get out before someone comes and check what's happening. Goals and objectives that do not require you to hold a position where health and DPS are the best options to hold them.
    And Medics need a more integral role as well. Engineers are the unrivaled vehicle pilots but Medics are mostly necromancers waving their wand and nothing more. They need some deeper metagame, such as prevention of damage added to their list of capabilities by getting access to deployable cover before and even in the middle of a fight and the ability to place utility-slot AMS modules to help push the frontline further no matter if you are attacker or defender.

    Well there's multiple games that have already adressed such issue's. For instance by creating better differences between mobility, speed, health and firepower and when you can use them. A HA would be much more useless if the metagame revolved around destroying 10 to 50 terminals spread out through every base. Infiltrators and LA would instantly profit in that gameplay despite their lack of health and DPS. This is because there isn't a necessity to fight through everything. Dodging around enemies and avoiding them would be a primary way to reach and destroy every terminal the fastest. The HA would be pushed into a defensive role, mostly defending engineers while they are busy trying to keep terminals in repair. That (severe and radical) metachange would instantly push the HA back from main frontline and most useable class to a support role, trying to use it's DPS and health to clear the way for engineers while hoping that no LA or infiltrator is about to flank either them or the very engineer's they are trying to protect.
    We can find a middle ground somewhere, where the mobility and capabilities of Infiltrators, LA and Medics could be equally crucial in any battle to advance or defend.

    I don't think it's that good to have an LA on a high point overlooking the objective (and I'm in love with everything LA). The SMG infiltrator is strong, but it requires far more planning and skill to pull off properly than HA's. And that's part of the problem. HA's require far less effort to be effective in most scenario's you can think off than any other class and they are far less situational. Other classes need to exploit things, their movement, their abilities, their weapon power etc, to get ahead of the HA, if they can get ahead at all. Don't get me wrong, a well placed Medic, Infiltrator or LA can litterally be the linchpin in a large fight because of their unique qualities, but most of the time it's just better to look at the amount of player you've got, assign a medic and engineer or two, get an infiltrator and make the remainder Heavies. It's the easiest way to get an advantage, and even if you aren't very organized or tactical it can easily beat many of the more tactical and skillful things you can pull off with larger groups of other classes.
    • Up x 1
  20. freeAmerish

    Simple question, what is better 750X125 damage or 750X112? 600X143 damage or 600X125 damage?
    Yes a LMG is an extreme worse weapon.