HA NMG - Again!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Edubs McCool, Jun 1, 2014.

  1. Ronin Oni

    Source: https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428010618040278545/classes

    SOE's own class description.
    • Up x 10
  2. Scr1nRusher

    "Only with the introduction of Rebirthing and recent improvements in shield technology has their mantra of “endure and eradicate” become viable. While the Heavy Assault’s brute-force strategy may not be the most elegant solution, it’s proven itself as an effective one."

    "In addition to their ability to take damage, Heavy Assault soldiers are well known for the devastating weaponry that they wield. "

    Check mate.
    • Up x 5
  3. Edubs McCool

    I notice you're both pointedly ignoring the first line.

    And I am not arguing they shouldn't/aren't the most durable. I am arguing that NMG is unbalanced.
  4. Scr1nRusher

    theres nothing to argue about, its not unbalanced.

    You think libs are less of a concern then NMG, How far down the line do you have to be to think this?
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  5. Posse

    Your argument for it being unbalanced is based on theoretical stats that don't mean anything.

    News flash, in statistics, there are plenty of situations where the average doesn't mean absolutely anything, this is one of them.
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  6. Liberty

    The stats you used don't really paint a good picture of what NNG does though, I posted earlier in this thread how the 4.01 TTK for the Solstice VE3 represents a larger TTK than the magazine of the weapon allows for. 698 RPM ~ 12 Rounds per second, so at 4 seconds you are looking at 48 rounds to kill. If you wanted to put forth a case for NMG being overpowered, you'd want to look at the players LPK stat (Shots landed per kill) with heavy assault vs. other classes. (Sadly I don't think this stat is tracked this way, it simply tracts your shots landed per kill against all targets including maxes, vehicles, terminals, etc)

    The thing is about personal player stats, I started it as a joking way to poke fun at the "Heavy shield OP" people because everyone who posted about this amazing, game breaking I win button somehow magically had little to no improvement by playing this incredibly overpowered class. Yourself included. I had originally stated (in several other threads) : Until you can actually show how the heavy assault class imbues you with these amazing OP abilities as reflected by your stats, then you really aren't fit to post to the OP nature of the class. If you want to go out and show that you can do (significantly) better as a HA, then at least you'll be in a situation where you are qualified to speak on the subject.

    With your final point, you are operating off of the false assumption that squad, platoon and empire makeup should be a 1 to 1 to 1 to 1 ratio of Heavy, to medic, to engineer make up, and this as noted is just plain wrong.

    One engineer can supply infinite ammo to infinite targets (around a localized area) as well as provide infinite repair (with a cooldown) to any unit that needs repair. The same way one medic can provided infinite revives and healing to any and all targets near them. Because of that, you don't need a 1 to 1 to 1 type ratio of classes. You *should* die to heavy assault more because more people *should* be playing the class.

    Personally, I have no idea why so many players seem to struggle with this concept so much it is certainly not new to gaming. Especially considering that any player can play any standard class at any time. If you chose to "only play medic" you make a personal choice to hinder yourself. It would be sort of like playing a standard RPG as a healer class, then whining that you can't DPS as fast as damage classes or tank as well as tank classes.
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  7. Ronin Oni

    No I'm not, The fact they are also the class designed to engage vehicles has nothing to do with it.

    Engineers have the AV turret, a long time bane to armor generally considered far worse than rocket launchers anyways. With infinite ammo. And supply HA's around them with infinite ammo.

    LA's are lovingly known as C4 fairies, and despite most vehicle users agreeing that killing a clay pigeon isn't that hard if you pay attention, there still are many "nerf C4" threads... yet I never see a "nerf rocket launchers" (against vehicles) thread (well, not since Striker nerf)

    Even Medics have C4

    Infiltrator is in fact the only class that can't kill vehicles. I'd say maybe they need a buff in inf killing power by that logic, but for the fact we have so many threads crying about OP cloak because they're gaming on their parents college laptop.

    As Liberty poignantly pointed out, you simply don't have the experience as HA to really make a reliable statement. Your majority experience is at the other end of a barrel... and the only reason for that is because HA is the most common class.

    Is it the most common because, direct combat considerations only, it is better? Yes. No question.

    However that's it's role. Direct combat. LA and Infil are 2 different flavors of flank/ambush/harassment combat. Their strength lies in their ability to kill before being reacted to (HA being the only class to have a chance to even look for them, at which point they are, at best, even) and retreating from engagements unfavorable to them.

    Medics and Engineers are support roles. They don't even come into discussion about combat balance... though they BOTH have very strong options available to them (I've racked great kill streaks on a turret, and the AR is the best inf gun type in the game, period)
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  8. SevenTwo

    But I just provided with you a point. Severally actually.

    Admittedly, LA are not as "killy" on their own in terms of firepower and they can't take as much punishment, but they bring a lot of other tools to the table that allows them to do things most of which a HA simply cannot do. You can't just ignore those things and callc an entire class irrelevant, because it doesn't suit your agenda.

    Light Assaults are more like a scalpel compared to the HA, which is more like sledgehammer. You don't bring a scalpel to tear down a house and you don't bring a sledgehammer to make delicate surgery. They both have their areas of application, one requiring a construction worker to function properly and the other a surgeon - and there are far more construction workers in Planetside 2 than surgeons, let me tell you that.

    Saying an entire class has no point, because another is more suited for general combat scenarios is hogwash.
    • Up x 1
  9. Snorelamp

    My point is that the areas in this game where you should pull the "scalpel" class are few while the areas you're better off with the "sledgehammer" class are many.
  10. Scr1nRusher

    Snore why did you bump this thread randomly?
  11. Gearlock

    The jetpack is situational, absolutely: It's only useful in combat.

    You're right, my bad on that statement. It isn't very useful outside of combat.

    Seriously, allow me to cry you a river of tears for the Light Assaults who easily account for the highest single portion of deaths I sustain in EVERY circumstance.

    Sniping? Got jumped by an LA
    Shelling a base in an MBT? Got C4 Fairied
    Attacking/defending a Biolab? Shot from a roof
    Assaulting a base? Attacked from a roof
    Indoors defending a point? LA from roof comes in back doorway
    Huddled behind a rock in a large group? C4 Fairied

    Circumventing normal travel barriers such as walls is, on it's own, insanely significant both combat wise, and tactically for the purpose of blowing generators and such.

    Stealth is situational. Engineer Mana turrets are situational. AV/AA rockets are situational.

    Jet pack is univerally useful, with only a small handful of areas/situations where you cannot use it to benefit.

    Just for the record, I will absolutely not be convinced otherwise. It's one of, if not the, best class ability in the game.
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  12. DHT#

    Yeah, the LA is possibly the single best class in the game in terms of all around combat usefulness.

    But I really feel the issue is the TTKs being so short in the first place. You can often be dead before you even know you're under attack once server latency and other factors are taken into account. If you bumped everyone up to 4s, a 2s increase in TTK is only 50% better instead of 100% better and it'd seem like less of an issue.
  13. MorganM

    Yep you've said it a lot now... and very, very, very few agree. It's your OPINION that it's too long and its our OPINION it's fine. Just because you have some data doesn't make your opinion any more valid. That's because I can take that same data and say "working as designed; it's supposed to be twice as long." That stance is just as valid as yours.

    Other people have brought up very valid points as well. LA and Infiltrators being great examples. They shouldn't be going face to face 1vs1 with an HA and their killing power in that type of engagement should NOT be equal or 'balanced' as such. You have to factor in much mroe than TTK. Which is why peopel are sying these numbers are useless... in a vacume, by themselves, as you've used them... they are useless.
  14. MorganM

    I would classify the NMG and Resist Shield as situational too. You shouldn't have it on all the time and in fact you can't have it on all the time. Many times that slower sprint speed gets you killed more than the shield saves you. If you pop it too early and waste it then engage someone you've lost your situational bonus.
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  15. Niller

    Which costs a **** load of resources for anyone without boosters trying to help their faction on an underpopulated continent.
  16. Niller

    And make LA even more useless? Because what this game needs is even MORE HAs.

    "But guise, HA is the bred n butte for evri fight!1, we need mor of dem..."
  17. Surmise

    High ROF carbine LAs are best counter to ground HA troops, simple 800+ RPM shooting from elevated point combine that with 0.3sec the game is in future the heavy is damned. LA could be considered a bit overpowered even due to spammy jetpacks which let's them get all the places to come from and throw c4s and shoot with that high RPM but heavy has a shield that gives 600 hp so not really that much.
  18. jiggu

    Yes while the heavy has to be almost standing still because you won't hit anything if you don't ADS AND the overshield slows the heavy by 50%. Try moving instead of crying.
  19. Donaldson Jones

    So wait, wait...

    You are trying to tell me that 200 infantry resources + LA is equal to 400 vehicle resource plus the trouble of getting the sunderer parked?

    Seriously? No other class can do what an LA can do. A HA has to use rockets or run up to the damn sundy to take it out.

    And before you start the cert argument if I fully blockade my sundy so you CAN'T 1 flight it, it costs close to the same amount as max'd jet pack.

    HA is fine, you use slanted stats that do not account for the jetpack in your calculations/presentation. Just because you see the LAs mobility as a *given does not mean everyone else does.

    If that mobility is "no big thing" to you then lets get rid of ZOE and give VS Maxs back their Jumpjets! Lets see ya whistle that tune with a straight face.
  20. Niller

    That last bit is completely random and doesn't have anything to do with my opinion.

    However, I see A LOT of engineers running up to a sundy and blowing it up, without anyone even trying to stop them. Sure the LA can do that a lot more easily, but that requires to of them to do so.

    As for tanks (which is my real concern when playing LA, and always forces me to go HA, an already overused class), any competent player can and should be able to avoid C4, and if the LA miss throw that C4 they loose it and gain nothing from it.

    LA should be able to have C4, otherwise it would become the most useless class in the game, for anything other than an infantry biofarm. And if they finally should remove C4, they should add in a stock AV grenade launcher (Low splash damage), with a low damage and short range to compensate, so LA can atleast do something about the endless tank certs, this option would be completely resource free like the RL.

    I do not see any reason to nerf an underplayed class, because someone didn't move out of the way.