GU11 And Resource Cost Shenanigans

So upon looking and thinking more about the GU11 changes I immediately noticed some horrific problems that will come with GU11's resource cost changes. Developers lets look at the numbers and point out the problems one by one.

• New Costs: Previous Costs:
• Flash: 150 25
• Sunderer: 400 400
• Lightning: 400 200
• Main Battle Tanks 450 250
• ESF's: 250 200
• Liberator: 350 300
• Galaxy: 350 350
• Harasser: 400 200
• MAX: 350 100

1. Flash Resource Cost is too High (150 Resources)

The flash shouldn't cost 150 for how weak it is, how easily it can be destroyed by every AV threat in the game, and this isn't even considering being gently bumped into by friendly vehicles and being instagibbed. It should cost more than 25 considering people were pulling fury flash after flash, but this is a step too far . It doesn't feel right that I can deprive someone of 150 vehicle resource with a single tank shell or lock on rocket. My recommendation is to make it cost 50-100.

2. Lightning Resource Cost is too High (400 Resources)

Considering how weak and vulnerable the Lightning is compared to the MBT what will be the incentive to pull a Lightning other than for the new and improved Skyguard that is coming? Lightnings are much easier to destroy than a MBT, Sunderer, or even a Harasser which has much better maneuverability and survivabilty . So why is the Lightning only 50 resources less expensive than the MBT? My recommendation is to make it cost 250-300.

3. Harasser Cost is too High (400 Resources)

Harassers are meant to be fun vehicles with which you and 1-2 other buddies can get into to harass and flank enemy lines with. Harassers are for taking risks, for going into hell and back while laughing and going while being shot at by countless tanks, ESF's, infantry, and getting back to allied lines to live and tell the tail. Now don't get me wrong their Max composite armor made them a little over the top, as ThundaHawk and countless others have showed us with both hilarious and awe inspiring videos of how tanky Harrasers can be. I'm using Thundahawk's Harasser video because he provides a great example of what Harassers can do, and how much fun they are when using it with friends.

However all things considered you shouldn't make a vehicle meant for taking risks so expensive that the driver is too worried to take risks and losing 400 resources. The composite armor levels for the Harasser may need to be looked at, but the 400 resource cost for it is a step too far. My recommendation is to make it cost 250-300

4. Max Resource Cost is too High (350 resources)

Maxes are meant to make infantry pushes, break stalemates, end Biolab farms when your side is being camped/farmed, and to deal with vehicle/air spam. At 100 resources a pop the Max felt balanced since 2 infantry with carbines could kill a Max, one C4 could kill a Max with Kinetic level 5 armor or Flak level 5 armor if the C4 landed ontop of the Max, and 2 rockets could kill a Max. However now that the Max has had its resource cost more than tripled it needs to be made either tankier or more resistant to explosives. Unless the Max user knows they are supported by a medic to revive them and a engineer to repair them Max users will become much more weary of pushing forward with these changes. Do you ever get mad when infantry are too afraid to push forward on the battlefield or out of the spawn room? Well then get ready when Maxes are too afraid to do so as well. My recommendation is either make it cost 150-200 resources to pull a Max or buff the Max's default resistance against all explosives.

5. MBT Cost is too High (450 resources)

MBT's had their resource cost almost doubled and don't get me wrong they were overdue for a slight resource increase after the update that made them take roughly one more rocket to the front and sides, but 450 is too much for the following reasons. (Many of these reasons can also be applied to the other vehicles mentioned and in some cases the Max as well! )

A. Vehicles can still be tank mine camped / C4 camped out of spawn areas. If you thought this was annoying before , well get ready to have your day absolutely ruined if it happens and now you only have enough resources to pull a flash afterwards.

B. If resources are increased like this you now will lose over half your resources when your MBT is destroyed. This problem is exponentially worsened if your faction is underpopulated on the server or warp gated. How are you going to fight against enemy Armor and Air when you have have only one MBT before you have to wait many minutes to save up enough resources for another one? Are infantry going to be expected to just walk out of the warp gates to fight against Armor and Air?

For example think of Mattherson after prime time hours when the Vanu triple cap all 3 of the continents almost every night with 50-60+% faction population. Did you think it was hard facing against the Vanu hordes then, well try facing all those Magriders and Scythes when you have no vehicles of your own to pull. Mattherson is only one example, for instance I know Miller and Waterson have similar issues with TR being overpopulated.

C. Team killing vehicles with other vehicles is a common occurrence in Planetside 2. Some people are able to shrug off losing a MBT/ Lightning/ or Harasser to friendly ram accidents back when they were cheap. But do honestly think people will just shrug it off when vehicles cost twice as much as they do now, and considering C4 is so cheap only costing 100 resources a block for sweet sweet revenge?

Prepare for a massive sky rocket in revenge C4 team kills because people will not take the following scenario and ones like it so lightly anymore.

D. People seemed to be okay with the concept of using 2 C4 costing 200 resources total to take out a Lightning, Harasser, MBT, or Flak Armor level 5 Max with their previous costs. However now that vehicles cost roughly double and Maxes cost over triple of what they used to I don't think people will remain satisfied with how cheap C4 costs.

E. C4/ AT Mine Greifing/ Spies currently are a problem in Planetside 2 since it is very easy to log onto an alternate character on the same server, blow up a friendly Sunderer/ MBT, and then log off and then back on to your other character to join your team as they now walk into the base with significantly less enemy opposition.

F. AV turrets cost zero resources, fire an unlimited number of powerful non rendering missiles from 600-700M away, redeploy an unlimited number of times, and sometimes the turret itself doesn't render in larger battles leaving only Doritos to fire at. This needs to change regardless of any of the other changes.

My recommendations are to make MBT's more resistant to mines/C4 so they can't be instagibbed , or raise the cost of C4/ AT mines to compensate for the now comparatively more expensive vehicles/Max. I like the idea of MBT's being expensive, valuable, and not so spammy. But if it is to be this way then they must take more damage to make up for costing so much. If a MBT costs more than a Sunderer/Galaxy, which can have a far greater impact on a battle then a single MBT, then the MBT should be able to take 2 C4/ more abuse without instantly dying or dying very fast.

TLDR

*Meanwhile in some other thread someone else is complaining about vehicle spam.

Heaven forbid a community consist of different people with different opinions.

Quoting myself from PS-U

Agreed, although I thought of a different system that could also augment that idea. Instead of resource increases I was thinking...what if vehicles received % decreases or increases based on where they are pulled? It could even work with the new values.


Pulling ground vehicles at a base that is touching an enemy link: % increase to resource costs and or cooldown timer or if we keep the new resource costs, keep them at default cost.

Pulling ground vehicles at a base you do not own: bigger % to resource cost. (infil with squad beacon hacking a terminal and spawning an armor column behind the enemy at no penalty). Still do-able but the resource implications affect the overall length your ground forces can roll around in armor.

Pulling ground vehicles gets progressively cheaper the further away from the front lines you pull it to a certain amount. (Pull 1 tank per soldier at the base in a last ditch or they can pull 1 now and 1 later by spawning further back)

Pulling ground vehicles from the warpgates should be the cheapest. This way the faction isn't ENTIRELY screwed over by resource costs when gated and can form up and push all together to gain more ground. If they fail this push then the siege mechanic still works. Outfits meeting up to form an armor convoy would benefit from this even if they are driving half of the map to their destination.

Could use this with the old numbers or the new numbers. Basically, if armor wants to reinforce a point they should fall back a link and drive back. Emergency pulling armor from a contested base is still possible but as a last ditch effort and not the optimal option. This might affect pub/zerg mentality as well as organized outfit mentality.

You would be trading reliability (units being able to pull armor more frequently) for effect (units spawning closer up or behind enemy lines). The candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long.

Approval.

I would say.

Flash - 100

Lightning - 300

Harrasser - 300

Max - 300

MBT's Remain at 450 (maybe even 500) but become a bit more "tanky" and actually take more than 2 C4 / AT mines.



Oh yeah and they need to increase resource cost on...

ESF's to 300-350

Lib's to 350-400

they need to reduce infantry consumables if they;re going to make max cost 350 infantry resources... it's already a nightmare to manage your grenades, C4s, mines, and medpacks. SOE simply asks you to do far too much with this one resource.

I'm slightly perturbed by the fact that air vehicles only got a token resource cost increase that might as well not have been there. Let's face it, a 50 point resource cost increase is essentially the same as no resource cost increase for all the difference it will make. It's just there so that they can say they did it. Going back to "Airside" will be the final nail in the coffin for player base numbers.

We'll just have to hope that the developers know what they're doing I suppose. I can't say I'm filled with confidence though

It looks like SoE is trying to cut down on vehicle spam by making vehicles actually cost something when you lose it. While increasing costs across the board will certainly do the trick, it will cause dedicated vehicle playes (such as yourself) to suffer as you are less able to continue your preferred playstyle.

On that note, somewhere someone suggested that vehicle cost and timer be affected by the Vehicle Acquisition cert tree. If this was done, it would allow the more dedicated players to continued their preferred role while also culling the riff-raff as being able to pull vehicles will require the player to dedicate certs to a playstyle instead of resources that they may not use otherwise. Perhaps also at higher levels or at maximum investment players can pull vehicles from the warpgate at greatly reduced cost (or maybe free).

That's not to say the proposed solution is perfect, as general vehicle spam may resurface as more and more players earn more and more certs and invest them into vehicle timers.

MAX shouldn't cost 350 that's just stupid. In a serious Biolab fight, I already have to worry about running out of infantry resources due to blowing up Sundy spam.

Lightnings should be 400 but MBT's should be 500. They are incredibly powerful and with the rear armor buff they received in GU09, they needed their cost raised a LOT.

Kubor, air barely got an increase because they're incredibly weak. An ESF is like a paperplane and a Lib isn't a whole lot better.

Something just occured to me....


These changes are possibly the start of the outfit specialization system.


Make purchasing and losing a vehicle a bigger deal all around. Unless you are in an outfit which specifically unlocked perks towards that playstyle.


EX: Jim bob the pub player has to take an MBT at 450 resources. Meanwhile 2tank4U is part of an outfit which specializes in tank combat. And they put outfit perks into reduced resource cost. So they get them for 350.


Get my drift ?

Yeah but MAXes can be revived. And besides in a Biolab fight XP reward also gives you proportional infantry resource gain.

Remember, it's a band aid for vehicle spam.

Consequences or not, the previous SPAMSPAMSPAM was unbearable.

Yeah the acquisition timer certs absolutely should be affecting resource costs, specialized players should not be punished for trying to stick to a certain playstyle.

Same buff buffs skyguard (which costs more resources) and nerfs bursters. I don't see how that's not worth noting. The cost of AA went up drastically.

More like the doctor (SOE) putting a small circular smiley face band aid on a third degree burn and then saying you'll be fine.

and this my friends is why SOE is a giant bucket of failsauce. they nerfed all of our vehicles into uselessness because they were farming infantry too hard because there were 900000 of them at a base at once. now they are nerfing the scatmax AGAIN. I have felt all along vehicles should cost more resources but the only problem is they already tried to balance them without making them cost more resources. they should have done this a long time ago before nerfing the vehicles into total crap. it was one thing driving paper vehicles with a high acquisition timer and next to no resource cost. but now, its going to be a joke. vehicles are effectively being eliminated from a COMBINED ARMS game.

if the vehicle cost is going to be increased to its proposed state, the vehicles should be buffed so they are even worth having for their price because in the current conditions they are not.

I agree that the cost of vehicles should increase, but not doubled or tripled. Maybe give us larger vehicle resource pool?

Not on Esamir. On Esamir Biolabs give Ground Vehicle resources.

With the changes to the lock on weapons dynamic, the changes to AA, and the proposed domes over bases, the ESF will become a very long way from being a "paperplane".

These changes combined amount to a massive buff to air (including its own air mini-game free from interference from the ground), and a huge slap in the face to people that prefer ground vehicles and have certed their timers right down.

This is about the worst update they could come up with at this stage in the games life cycle.

I'm not a huge fan of vehicles, although I like to fly a bit sometimes. But even as someone that predominantly plays Infantry, I can see how unpleasant these changes are going to be for many people.

It was a bad solution to tank spam tbh
Tank spam occurs when a base is once invaded (everyone pulls an MBT from the vehicle terminal).
The only thing this has actually stopped is pulling a tank every 5 minutes which requires a fully certed timer (aka a dedicated tanker)
This has
1- Pooped on tankers
2- Removed the effect of a cert timer
3- Made the flash 100 resources (lolwut)
The flash is a vehicle to send you from point A to point B.
I think resources (for flash and harasser) should depend on your loadout
_--edit-___
And a deconstruction option should be available
For example swapping a MAX suit for a HA should give you a few resources back
Deconstructing a vehicle should give you 10% (or more) of its cost