Grounder AA Missile Statistics

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SheerTorcher, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. SheerTorcher

    So GU2 introducted the annihilator and rebalanced infantry AA versus air. What followed was a whole lot of pilots howling, the annihilator was promptly nerfed even though we groundpounders paid cash for it, and locking cones generally were nerfed, effecting nearly every AA system. And guess what? We're back in the position that AA missiles are once again completely ineffective against ESF's again.

    I kept hearing that AA missiles were once again ineffective, but I didn't know how ineffective until I volunteered to relieve our regular AA guy who was clawing his eyes out in frustration and had actually begun weeping. I decided to keep track of my results, making notes about all my outcomes. They break down as follows:

    Total accquisition attempts / shots at aircraft: 63
    Total minutes AA played: 90
    Cert Gain over 90 Minutes: 17 (versus the hundred or so I would normally earn in that time)

    Of all 63 attempts to acquire, 48 (76%) ended in failure when:
    Target came too close: 4 (6%)
    Target move too far away: 7 (11%)
    LOS blocked by obstacle: 1 (2%)
    Player was killed: 25 (40%)
    Flare was launched: 4 (6%)
    Fratricide of player: 1 (2%)
    No explanation: 3 (5%)
    Target vanished in midflight: 3 (5%)

    Of all 63 attempts to acquire, 13 (24%) succeeded. Of these 13, 6 (46%) failed to hit because of:
    flare: 2 (3%)
    target aerobatics: 1 (2%)
    missile clipped obstacle: 1 (2%)
    no explanation: 2 (5%)

    Of all 63 attempts to acquire, 9 (14%) both locked and actually struck the target.
    Surface to Air Scoring Hits: 8 (12%)
    Kills:1 (2%)

    It's worth noting that during the test time, though I was devoting myself to menacing aircraft with my launcher, I actually killed a an infantryman, a lightning, a sunderer, and a flash by dumbfiring the rocket in self defense. Thus I can say with confidence that while this AA missile poses barely any threat to aircraft, it has a modest effect versus ground targets.

    Seriously, SOE? Why not just hang up a sign that says "Please don't shoot our aircraft. Better yet, bend over and lube up."

    The chief problem here is one of acquisition time/arc. Because acquisition times are so long and ESF's move so fast, AND because the area of the sky directly over the shooter cannot be used because the target moves to fast to be tracked with the new nerfed smaller cones, an AA man who wishes a chance to acquire must go to ludicrously exposed positions and WAIT THERE for an aircraft to come by. Attempting to fire in any situation where less than 2/3 of your field of view is sky just results in no acquisition, but going to exposed positions results in your death, over and over.

    I followed up my AA by dusting off my mosquito and flying it. Sure enough, though I am hardly a stellar pilot, in the 90 minutes I flew, I died only 3 times, twice by flying into things and once from another ESF. I was struck with a missile a handful of times, but nanite system 3 was normally already repairing it before I lined up my next run.

    So now you have a situation where a player who devotes himself to an activity his team needs gets 17 certs and a K/D ration of 1:25. That spells "screw you, player" in any language.
    • Up x 10
  2. Johnnyseven

    ESF's are inherently overpowered in this game (as aircraft tend to be in real life when compared to an infantryman I imagine) and that would be fine. If there wasn't an infinite amount of them and I could pull another as soon as I get shot down.
    • Up x 3
  3. SheerTorcher

    Spent the rest of the night flying my ESF! It's fun to be invincible!
  4. bodmans

    well im sorry to hear this, but i still get locks all over the place when flying indar
    • Up x 1
  5. Dingus148

    Sigh. No more of this misinformation. Air is dangerous in real life but it has severe drawbacks, none of which are modeled in game. You know what's OP in real life? Infantry. That's why every nation has armies full of 'em. If jets were as good as they were in this game, nations wouldn't bother with ground troops.
    Scientific analysis, but dangerously close to a whine thread. You're wearing the TR red son, the Commissar takes a dim view of any perceived whi-
    HERESY!

    [IMG]
    • Up x 2
  6. Vorxil

    It actually works better now. It's a little harder to acquire a lock and the missile doesn't have as insane a tracking ability it used to have. Fast and agile ESFs are better countered by flak while slow/predictable ESFs and Liberators can be countered with missiles.
  7. user68

    The most important number is missing from your statistics

    Out of 63 attempts
    Deaths: 0 (0%)

    AA was meant to be a self-defence weapon. You are not meant to be able to kill or damage transit air traffic that pose no threat to you or troops near you. Your numbers prove that things are more or less balanced.
    • Up x 3
  8. Cinnamon

    So you think that a one off payment should give you the right to enforce a no fly zone over a large section of the map by yourself whenever you log on and play a heavy assault? What if those other players are also paying customers.
    • Up x 3
  9. 01101010

    Factor in a player who certed their bird in Stealth - takes longer to acquire a lock (IIRC). Makes it worth gold if you are doing strafing runs and fleeing for a few moments while you set up another. No flares needed.
    • Up x 1
  10. Larington

    The daft thing is, a mosquito/scythe/reaver with rocket pods is more effective at killing an anti-air burster MAX than the ANTI-AIR burster MAX is at killing air. 1 on 1 the burster is far more likely to lose. You end up needing 3 to be remotely effective at shooting down air and that's when it's just a handful of enemy air harassing an area showing up 1 or 2 at a time. When 8 rocket podders show up, just redeploy to warpgate because what's the point anymore.
    • Up x 1
  11. Cinnamon

    Medics, engineers, focussing targets, using cover, teamwork. It's an easy cert grind like farming biolabs by spamming infantry maxes and explosives but whatever.
    • Up x 1
  12. Zotamedu

    The lock on launchers are better in a group. Try that next time and return with results.

    I think the nerfs were needed because air was all but extinct for a while which was dull. Now they have a proper chance to be dangerous if they are smart. If they are stupid, then they are rocket and flak fodder. The lock on launchers are quite effective at disturbing air. They cannot fly freely and do what they want like they could in December as long as a couple of people keep shooting rockets at them. Then they need to keep moving around and they need to land and repair every now and then.
    • Up x 1
  13. UberBonisseur


    Infantry
    is
    cheap.


    By the way, we have nukes. Usually better than infantry.
    Except nuking entire countries never really was popular.

    I'll just assume you are oblivious about real life
  14. Dingus148

    Yeah, infantry is cheap. It's concealable, versatile and requires next to no maintenance. I'll just assume you know nothing about strategic policy. Because while I may be oblivious to real life, I work in the military IRL. So yeah. Totally clueless
    • Up x 2
  15. Sen7ryGun84

    I read the OP and thought I would check out my lock on missile statistics too. I'm significantly more "accurate" (as accurate as you can be for a projectile that guides itself) though my kills for the number of hits is very very low.

    I have around 67% hit rate with the grounder for around 700 rounds fired, and only around 25 kills. The state for my annihilator are very similar, higher accuracy (attributed to a better guidance system) of around 89% for 250 rounds fired, but only 10 kills. The kills per minute on each of the AA launchers for me is around 0.13.

    This made me curious sp I started crawling over the leader boards, then through random players I know on the players site and I found everyone from the world top 10 all the way down to the average Joe's like myself have practically the same stats with the MANPADS. Everyone is quite accurate with the things but very few are actually making kills with them. I suspect what's happening is that most pilots are taking a hit then simply flying away and making repairs or leaving the aircraft to burn while they switch to an infantry role.

    All I can read into this is that pilots do A LOT of screaming about something that appears to not be killing them.
    • Up x 4
  16. SheerTorcher

    Yes, during my recent spate of piloting, I agree. The principle use of ground locking missiles is to keep aircraft moving and not flying stupid. If a HA were rewarded for doing this, I would say "interesting game mechanic, clever."

    But actually there's little incentive for the HA to even bother. I don't bother grabbing an AA missile anymore unless I'm on an op with outfit members. Why? Think about the reward chain. IF I got to a high place under clear sky AND I don't get shot AND the pilot is bad or unlucky AND if there's an engy to reload me after N failed attempts I might get a 40 xp bonus? I don't think so. 17 certs for 90 minutes is not a motivator.

    I can think of two reward systems that might keep me aiming at air. One is a lock-on score. If I successfully get an air lock on without getting my head shot off for the audacity, how about, oh, I don't know, a 20 xp bonus? That's as much as an engy makes in 1/2 the time repairing something. Would it really be a game killer? Then I wouldn't come away empty handed from the ESF hunt and I might not regard the weapon as a waste and my effort as valueless.
    • Up x 4
  17. Zotamedu

    It seems like we are playing for different reasons. See, I play because I like to play, not to make certs. You make it sound like a job where earning certs is all that matters. How about doing something for fun or because it's useful for the group?

    It certs is all you want, you should hang up your CARV on the wall and grab that glue gun and start gluing stuff like you never glued before. And keep two ammo packs on the ground at all time. Then the certs will flow.
  18. MadGelo

    what a pile of ********.

    1buster MAX is enough to keep several ESFs at bay
  19. Isila

    Only if those ESFs are terrible and not coordinated.

    Two ESFs working together come in from opposite directions. The burster cannot fire in both directions at once. The ESF being shot at goes evasive while the other one rockets the burster in the back, GG.

    99% of whining about AA comes from people that play nothing but solo aircraft and cry when coordinated groups of AA take them out.
    • Up x 2
  20. smokemaker

    One of the big issues, was for a while , the pilots where not getting accurate missile lock warnings. ESF's where going down due to incoming missiles they could not even see coming. Once this was fixed... the pilots started evading them again.