Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AtckAtck, Apr 28, 2016.
i hasnt made me wait yet, allaccess i guess? but yeah thats dumb
Yes I think the DEV's missed the mark here for an FPS game... I can see using nanites for recharging the big bases and if you loose your power source then that is it for you. Maybe you should have to protect you nanite fields to win.
Enemy can destroy your nanites fields and if they do you loose.
Queue system seems weird for overpopulation. I feel like everything costing more would be a fairly effective way of helping out the lower pop factions. IE If one faction had 10% more population than the lowest faction their tanks/aircraft/maxes/consumables could/would cost 10% more. To stack it even more (bringing back an old PS1 idea) health/shield percentages could go up.
I'm halfway thinking the queue system was put in place as a means to convince a few more to go to membership. Reason being is you get sent to VR instead of a continent upon login and can be stuck NOT PLAYING.
However if you're a member you click the warp to continent. Then get asked if you want to queue, and then a message asking if you want to warp. You basically have no queue as a member.
Could be a bug.
Could be coincidence.
Could be an incentive to go member.
I'd like an official word.
Could be the truth. Doesn't seem that far fetched.
Personally I love the new construction system. It MADE me come back to the game.
I am a member and its been 46mins waiting in the queue, what a joke!
Ironically the queue is there because players wanted it. But it seems like it has more "Con" than "Pro"
In my opinion THIS is the real problem. Not really Construction. That will find a place in a couple of days.
I just try to play 5 minutes ago on Emerald, Indar has plenty of pop and there is no queue active... i just checked the continent map... and... there is no place to go.
A mega huge user made base west of dahaka is grabbing all pop, +48 Tr and +96 NC, there is also another +48 Tr in a nearby base... but there is no real actual combat, because the user made base is untouchable, so, there is only a couple of people shooting from vehicles and maxes.
So... really ?, this is more enjoyable that a tyipical base fight with some people playing vehicles and maxes ?.
I'm 100% with the new queue system... but who cares if no one is fighting on real bases.
Nice wall of text.
1. Never said anything about the construction system nor the queue.
2. Simply described what i encounterd for the 2nd day in a row. It might change, might not, but same as Jobiwan, i'm stuck in VR 90% of the time.
3. No need to get angry over forum posts.
4. **** you too. Whatever it means.
That's a wall of text? Oh dear...
Liar liar pants on fire.
And slandering the construction system while doing it. You are drawing a direct parallel between the existence of the construction system and being stuck in the VR, blaming it.
There is every need to get angry with toxic and destructive comments like the one's you make. But I'm not angry, I've just learned that players react more favorably to angry, swearing posts rather than well-considered posts. So I decided it was time for one.
"no need to get angry". Seriously there's people like you making every attempt to destroy the game with your comments, and I'm not allowed to get angry for that? For you trying to destroy the fun I'm trying to have with a game? The whole purpose of a game is to enjoy it, you are actively trying to destroy that purpose, my fun. That's all the reason to get angry.
0.o you have trouble with swearing? I find that hard to believe.
Just said there was a queue, i did not bash the mechanic. Same with stuck in the VR, has nothing to do with the construction system, but with the queue. Nowhere in this post do i bash a mechanic, it's just how it is now. If anything, you need to get your facts straight and stop blaming people in your personal forum crusade. Evry slightly negative comment about the current update you seem to take as a personal offense.
This all started due to me defending the OP, who made an honest observation, against your post that he is screaming doom.
absolutely agree...you don't always need to try something to know what it's doing. And I gotta tell ya, I don't want to play minecraft. The construction system makes this a totally different game. OK, wait a week, try again and see if I can LOG ON and FIND COMBAT like I could before this horrific update.
I think they'll need to remove both. But I will try back in a week or so. Just think about it though. You don't need to be a chess grandmaster to see what construction will do to fights in the long term. And the queues just...overpop me bro, just don't make me sit there in VR waiting to get onto any continent.
There is no reason to get angry over paying customers making valid criticism over a game they love. The VR queue is absolutely horrible. I have never *****ed about high pops or being zerged by being outnumbered. Bring it on. On the other hand, make me sit around and do nothing...no. Not paying for that.
And all you need to know about the construction system is exactly what people are saying about it. It's abominable. The game was really starting to come back, but I predict with these two changes, you'll lose 3/4s of the population when people just...can't...play because building bases makes fights pointless and difficult to find. This is a weak attempt at RTSing PS2. I liked the combat.....look just...log on, when you can get onto a continent, and by all means pick the one with the longest queue so you get high pop. Then, just move your mouse over the zones on the front line. You'll find nearly every zone reads 1-12 vs 1-12. People are logging on and getting fed up with no fights. Sure, some people are trying out their nifty ants, but...if I want to play minecraft, I'll go do that. You're seeing constructed bases that require massive teamwork when most of the zerg pop solos...and without that zerg pop, you have a DEAD GAME.
So, you are predicting that after a week, you'll see things back to normal (sort of). I'm predicting in a week, you'll see nothing but 1-12 vs 1-12. whoo boy... Might as well go play Arma 3.
The Problem, as i see it, is the combination of the new building system and the new balancing queues.
Apart from a lot of players now trying out the new stuff and thus doing stupid things, we will get a problem with the new even player count soon. It may not be as worse as it is now, but it will stay. Of that I am sure.
What was the threshold before sending players into the queue? 10%?
Let's assume 100 Players active on a continent, for each faction. Perfect Balance. Don't mind the +10% for now.
Let's assume 20 Players will be wanting to try building a base, so these will be at it gathering resources and build a base.
These guys build a defence in favor of my failing and the enemy counterattacking.
There we have the first imbalance. These 20 Players will be missing when attacking. When all 100 of the other side decide to defend against my 80 person push, we don't stand a chance of winning. Never. We will always fail.
Then the enemy will come and clash against the defence, which might even hold. But as soon as we have beaten off the attack for good, I will be left with only 80 attackers again. And failure will repeat itself again.
Now you might argue that the enemy will have the same amount of 20 players building defence and thus will be 80 vs 80 then, one has to remind himself that the 100 will probably be scattered all over the continent.
So basically instead of a Tug of War between bases, we now have only one option to win. Join the players turtling up. Win by producing cores and not taking bases. Which is endlessly boring if you want to attack.
Key word: VALID.
Complaining about bugs that are soon to be fixed, and shoveling it onto a system that you know is still being tested like every major update, that's bad. And that's what I keep repeating: There's a bug with the feature that should prevent excessive overpops, it's going to be fixed don't worry. The construction system is still spanking new and being tested all over, which reduces the amount of normal fights. This will settle itself once the shine of the system wears off and players build a metagame around it.
The complaints are all tied to the above points, all those points which still need to develop before you can say anything VALID about it. So regardless of paying or not, if you support any of the complaints like Otec does, then you are supporting invalid complaints and have no ground to stand on.
Just because you never complained about it does not mean it shouldn't be fixed.
PS2 has had many problems with unbalanced populations, done right their new system could really help the game. Of course, they are still fine-tuning it and preventing a bug from happening.
But you? You are now using invalid complaints. You can say "damn, this bug send me to the VR room and now I couldn't play"<-- that's a valid complaint. "Damn, this bug send me to the VR and now the game is ruined forever, everyone dump the game and move on"<-- that's an invalid complaint, and with some toxicity added for good measure. No matter how nicely you put it, urging players to move on is a toxic comment, and complaining that a temporary bug that is already being fixed ruins the game for now and eternity is simply invalid.
There's more people saying it's PS2's redeeming factor. It's not abominable, and all the complaints brought up so far as to why it's abominable are all invalid complaints.
How? Why? The game was dying, and it was dying pretty damn fast. The game is already an older game, it's only truly unique feature is the MMO scale. But fights were relatively meaningless, the most favored metagame was gaining stats rather than capturing continents for your team. Hence you had/have fights in a biolab while your team get's warpgated, because the fight in the biolab was more rewarding than trying to capture the continent.
And now? Players have a wider scope, and that's not bad. There's more goals to pursue. You want to capture the continent? You can capture bases, use HIVE's, attack hostile HIVE's to capture victory cores for your team and stop the enemy VP rolling in. You want to boost your stats? When the metagame has settled, you'll get your fights back. For now you have to put some effort into it and either look for a fortress to assault, or try to help defend a fortress. the fights have moved, they haven't disappeared. Just because the fights now take place between bases doesn't mean your entire game is gone! Adapt to the temporary situation of fights happening mostly between bases, and when the metagame has settled take your pick: Fight for premanent bases, or try to destroy fortresses.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
3/4rth of the population? The last few days had pretty much filled continents, multiple filled continents. If it was bad, the continents had emptied within the first day and not filled up again aside from maybe the rush hours. Hell, if the construction system was bad... everyone would have continued the normal routine of attacking bases. But they aren't, the servers have stayed full and are even fuller during low pop times than normal, and players are en-mass trying the construction system over and over again everywhere.
3/4rth of the population gone, don't make me laugh. Just because the same 5 or 6 people complain here over and over again doesn't mean they represent 3/4rth of the population. Just look at the 20 people who made comments against them in the lines of "just wait" and you see that they are a minority rather than majority.
Also, people can't play? They've been playing harder than the last 2 years! Only during launch you might have found harder fights. Complete air wings, supported by tank columns and infantry masses assault and defend fortresses.
Pointless fights? The fights have become more meaningful than ever. Rather than "boink, another kill for me!' the system now has rewards for teamplay (as opposed to just banding together without any communication or attempt to help each other much), building proper defenses/attacking&destroying defenses, there's a larger scope to the game through the capture and use of victory cores, which is supported by controlling the right amount of bases to get close to your opponent. Base capture is also important to extend the range of your enemies assault, if an enemy has a base nearby your fortress it's far easier to destroy than if they have to move through 1 or 2 more bases. You are fighting for something. Capturing bases used to only pay off if you managed to achieve a threshold, such as capturing X% of the continent of capturing all the techplants etc, which due to the way PS2 worked wasn't exactly super easy to pull off and often saw just as much progress as defeat unless you had an overwhelming server pop.
Now, every base you capture can bring you closer to your goal, from being able to place a HIVE closer to the warpgate to controlling more resources to putting distance between your enemy and your HIVE to getting closer to an enemy HIVE and attack it.
You aren't looking right! You are assuming the fights happen in the bases near the frontline, while the actual battles are raging more heavily than ever between the bases. A fight isn't happening in a single base or hex anymore, it can extend across multiple bases with it's center around a HIVE or a fortress that's stalling an attack.
How about... look just... log on, find out that they've already fixed most of the waiting queue's (and seriously, complaining about a lack of fights while the continent is full enough to warrant a queue? Only one faction is capable of getting a queue ban, so it's unlikely that everyone is constantly experiencing it). Then when you've found out those queue's are either very short or non-existant you don't just watch the map and hazard a guess at some numbers, you participate. You look for a HIVE nearby your territory and assault it, I can almost guarantee you there'll be a good fight going there. If not, try another, and another. If there really are no HIVE's nearby your territory, you can find that your team is capturing bases somewhere, guaranteed, and join that fight.
Just because you don't understand it does not mean that your wrong conclusions hold up. The fights are there, but whoo boy, they moved to between bases rather than within bases. And whoo boy, now you need some tactics and strategy to get through the day. Big deal!
This update has already pulled more people out of retirement than players that complained here they would quit. This update will, with proper word-of-mouth and some advertising, get the game going strong and increase the longevity of the game.
The limits start with 150 players and up. Before that you can get it as unbalanced as you want.
Also, the game's rules have changed. Let's say 20 players decide to build stuff and 80 players attack stuff while the other team has 100 players attacking stuff... Because the 20 players will be generating VP points faster than the 80 players (or the 100 players), the 20 players will eventually be the reason they win.
Now imagine if the 100 players decide the 20 players... leaving the 80 players rampaging through their bases.
Oh wait, you have to balance it out.
So... how about sending 20 players attacking the 20 construction players? Oh wait, fortresses have force multiplication, so you need to gather these players up and attack together and hope the 20 construction players are divided across the continent. Even then, you'll be putting out fortresses at one point, and while you are attacking the next fortress a new one is being build again.
So... You need the right mix of players. You can't do Zergs anymore, you can't just rampage down a lane while sending a few players to slow down the rest of your enemy. You have to have a united faction, where all players can determine where they'll be useful. And that can change: I saw yesterday an assault that waltzed passed a fortress under construction, and many players took a minute out of their time to place one or two structures and move on with their attack. A minute, and they had already become a construction player and changed back to attacker, even though their attack instantly also defended the fortress...
Player counts won't matter that much anymore, as long as it's relatively balanced (which this system is supposed to do). What your players are doing will be important.
Also I don't really see how you can complain about "well imagine if in a balanced state some players do something other than what we used to do". There's no guarantee that the players in an underpopped team won't have players dedicating themselves to building as well. That's as far as PS2 can be balanced: You use some numbers, and use the laws of averages to keep them balanced. Yes at some point some faction will send too many to do X or Y (or too many simply decide to do that), but that's their choice, and with equal pops this is less of a problem than with unbalanced pops.
The attempt to balance fights forcing people out of continents seem to have many downsides.
I'm more in favor of balancing based on Cortium and nanites gain. I'd rather see my ability to spam vehicles and explosives reduced than being exiled in the VR for 40 minutes.
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