This started out as little more than a joke, but why not? The following is a conceptual tool for the Light Assault, one that could incorporate a few various methods of enjoyment for the class as a whole...including some potential team oriented mechanics as well as some very stealthy tactics of assassination. While I don't play the Light Assault, I've always thought of the class as extremely similar to what the Infiltrator is supposed to be...we can both infiltrate enemy bases through different methods and we're both pretty deadly towards one another, yet could potentially compliment each other in special ops oriented situations. You all take the high road while we take the low road, and together we can cause a little chaos behind enemy lines...or so my thought process works. With that said, here you go...the Grappling Device, which is in dire need of an actual name. Type: Tool Ammunition: Maximum of Five Cartridges (?) Range: Not sure, not good with numbers. Use: Left Mouse Click: Fires the device, using up one cartridges. Left Mouse Click 2: Retracts the device, pulling infantry or yourself if attached to non-infantry. Right Mouse Click: Releases the projectile, spending the cartridge. Essentially, this device will fire a hooked projectile attached to a high tensile wire; if it embeds itself into enemy infantry, you can then retract the wire in order to pull them towards you. If, however, the projectile is embedded into the surface of a ceiling or wall...you'll be pulled towards it instead. I think that most everyone can speculate on how effective this would be for the Light Assault, and how much sheer fun it would be for the entire class as a whole. I, myself, don't even play Light Assault...and I'd love something like this. Notes: Imagine yourself hooking enemy infantry and quickly reeling them in, detaching the device, and whipping out your shotgun in order to blow them apart...or perhaps you're far more of a sadist than that, using your jet-pack to hover high amongst the sky whilst dragging enemy infantry into the air so that you can drop them to their death. Furthermore, this device could be used as a means of quick escape...embedding the projectile into a wall or ceiling so that you can retract the device and be quickly drug towards its location. So long as you don't release the cartridge, you could hang from the ceiling for an indefinite duration of time. - I had also considered the possibility of imbedding these projectiles into allied infantry as a means of saving those who have overextended themselves or suddenly find themselves at risk by an enemy they're unaware of...but this would likely be used as a trolling method. The only way that this couldn't be exploited, that I can think of, would be if you can only use the device on infantry that have reached dangerous levels of health and they suddenly developed some sort of visual cue that lets you know they can be saved. Still, it's likely that this could be exploited and just won't work properly in the overall concept. - If possible to incorporate in a manner that won't look downright absurd visually and will actually function properly, using this device on MAX units, vehicles, and aircraft will leave you subjected to their movement. This means that, while attached, any movement they make will drag you along for the ride...and you can use the reeling in mode to pull you towards the object quickly as you would a non-infantry surface. This would make the device particularly dangerous to Sunderers and even potentially MAX units by permitting the Light Assault to reel themselves in close to C4 them. You could also ensure that they never escape, in the case of a traveling Sunderer, by attaching yourself to the vehicle itself. You become a leech...an annoying tethered leech. Balance: With all of that said, I had initially mentioned that this device should be wielded in the off-hand so that other single handed weapons could be used in simultaneous conjunction with the device. However, upon further thought, I feel that it would be best balanced with a dedicated wielding that requires you to detach any embedded projectiles before you can switch to an actual weapon. For example, you could fire the device upon an enemy infantry unit, drag them towards you, cut the tether, and then switch to a shotgun to blow them away. If you're quick enough, this can all be accomplished relatively quick while leaving the target little time to actually compensate and kill you before you have them. Furthermore, the following could be applied if balance permits: - Successfully imbedding a target from behind renders them incapable of retaliation so long as you are pulling them towards you. This would make flanking situations exceptionally powerful while using this device, because the target would be completely helpless and subject to aid only from surrounding allies. - The ability to wield this device together with a pistol seems balanced, so I would be more than willing to see this included in the overall concept. So there you have it, an overall concept of something that initially started out as little more than a gag. Personally, as amusing as it sounds, I feel that this seems like a logical addition to the Light Assault's arsenal...one that would sync up beautifully with their current mechanics of temporary flight. I can easily see LA troopers looming amongst the skies, plucking enemies up into the air so that they can let them plummet to the ground below...or abducting high priority targets from an enemy clutch within a building's doorway so that their allies can focus fire and take them out. Imagine a Medic peeking his head out...only to suddenly find himself propelled towards the enemy forces he had absolutely no desire to face head on... I'm sure that many amongst the game would find a bit of frustration being targeted by this device...but as a dedicated long ranged sniper, I feel that balance based upon frustration is a terrible idea. Compensating for frustrating situations is one of the biggest psychological rewards a game can provide, and so frustration needs to be incorporated into games so that players have something to strive towards overcoming. So long as it's balanced, that's what makes the game challenging and keeps things from growing stale, uneventful, and otherwise dull.
I thought the dead horse was more so related to a simple grappling hook than the more advanced system presented? Then again, I don't often search through threads and haven't followed the LA posts outside of the suggestions area.
Well, that was suggested like bazillion times in all imaginable forms, and the general conclusion each time was that LA neither does need such a redundant tool, nor we have any possibility to actually get it. This tool would require so much work on the part of devs just so we get a tool to move around, when we already have our Jump Jets do that. Pushing for that idea with the devs would be useless, because it's a lot of work, and making us stick to vehicles would probably cause all sorts of synchronizing problems for a questionable benefit. Instead of beating a dead horse of a thousandfold resolved issue, we should just wait for LA revamp, and then push for actually implementable things, like improving adrenaline pump into class passive that would substantially increase all movement speed, not just sprint, faster Jump Jets and more accurate weapons in mid-flight, reducing flash bang detonation delay. Those wouldn't require too much work. If you want to just make up an idea to discuss and laugh and have sweet dreams about, then by all means, feel free to (re)post any suggestions. I prefer to live in a real world (as real gaming world can be, lol), and push and discuss ideas that actually have a chance to be implemented.
Hmm... I wouldn't really say that anything is impossible unless it's downright absurd. The development team has toyed around with a lot of things and seem to be moderately interested in incorporating potentially complex items into the class updates. For example, us Infiltrators know that we're going to be getting a Recon Drone within our future update, but what exactly this thing does seems up in the air. Furthermore, the development team has spoken about potentially giving it various optional features that you can specialize into. While it expressed that weaponizing these drones was an unlikely course they would take, if I remember correctly, there was a shred of doubt and musing over such a possibility. Either way, the Recon Drone could be pretty complex...and they have shown an interest in making it so. With that said, if that's the case...what makes any intricate and in depth idea an impossibility? You never know unless you begin throwing it out there, get a following behind the idea, and the devs consider it. Aside from all that, my thoughts on the grappling device are more geared towards the manipulation of enemy infantry than getting around. Sure, you'll be able to use it for that purpose...and suspension from a ceiling might come in handy...but the primary feature is to grapple enemy infantry and tug them towards you. I'm not sure if this concept has been considered before, it's completely likely since it's similar to Scorpion's wire...but I feel it could provide a great deal of fun and function to the class. Having the ability to pull a target away from safety and into the fray, or your shotgun, is valuable no matter how you look at it. So, while you might not like this idea in particular (it did start out as a gag in another post due to the thoughts on grappling someone while in the air, pulling them up, and dropping them to their deaths.) you really shouldn't cast aside even far fetched ideas. If they gain enough following, the Devs often address them...especially if they're mentioned during a life stream. Many of the musing over Drone specialization were done over, if I remember correctly, a lifestream. I doubt we'll see a weaponized drone...but I can see it being released with several specializations you can certify into rather than a simple base drone that does only one thing.
Well, this idea was discussed, and it didn't get many followers. Seeing as nobody cares, I'm not going to overcome my laziness to lay out thoughts on this idea I don't like anyway.
Well, that's fine and well. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't rule out potentially complex concepts under the ruse that they're never going to be considered. Hell, the development team has still mused over the thought of incorporating naval combat and linking all the continents together so that you can traverse to them by sea or air. As far as I know, they still want to do this.
If the closest time the ideas may be considered is at least half a year from now, I don't see any reason to discuss them now, they will be just buried in the endless abyss of the forum. Let's imagine two scenarios of a fate of a complex idea: A) The idea is excellent, everyone likes it, the whole LA forum agrees: we need this! We start creating threads, posting everywhere, gathering signatures, whatever. The dev teams works on hossin. A month passes. LA forum continues to chant. The dev teams works on ESF updates. The fire in souls of LA forums starts to fade, but there are still many followers. The dev team works on ESF update. The idea still gets strong feedback. The dev team pushes back LA revamp to do plant cheese on Moon, because **** you LAs. Finally, after two months more, dev team starts working on LA revamp AND ASKS FOR FEEDBACK, and only now it is sensible to make suggestions and think what can be done to LA, and 3-4 months of agitated brewing served no purpose at all. Moreover, it's quite possible that after all this time the idea became outdated, not needed, while it took effort of the whole LA forum to broadcast it and recruit followers. Never happens anyway. B) The idea is good, most people like, it gathers some support. For a week. Then people start forgetting about, because they start to realize that they will likely never see it implemented. This happens with major part of all suggestions. C) The idea is bad, nobody cares - like now. Nothing happens, the idea slides into the abyss. This happens with lesser part of suggestions. It's a lose-lose situation. Yes, maybe somewhen the idea will get the attention of devs. Still no reason to mull over it, especially for umpteenth time, at the excuse of that, maybe, a year in the future, somebody might actually care to implement it, when all you really want is to stroke your ego, presenting olds as news. Simpler ideas, however, like the ones I listed (none of them are mine), could actually be implemented as soon as the next balance pass, and if LA forum is going to exert any effort over suggestions, they should be like this - easy to balance and implement. There is absolutely no point in discussing something that either will be implemented as close as next summer, or, more likely, never.
You must have done absolutely horrible in school if you had that methodology... If you wait until the last moment in order to maul over something, theory craft, and perfect a concept...your chances of success are pretty slim. With that said, there are ideas such as the Spider Tank and bringing back the Beta Nights which have persisted since the beginning of this year. When the Light Assault update comes up, you're going to have a plethora of people bouncing their ideas around...but the ones that stick out are going to be the well thought out concepts that were rallied behind for months in advance coupled with the few new gems that come to be and gain a quick following. There's absolutely no foolishness in working towards a goal early, on the contrary...it's typically foolish to work on something at the last second.
Think so? The reason that I felt it would be interesting for the Light Assault is, primarily, due to the capability of plucking someone up off the ground and into the sky...then dropping them to their death. It just seemed like it would suit the LA more, snatch a person and pull them in before switching to a shotgun to blow them away...drop them from a high elevation...so on and so forth. I think the usages would be far more limited for us.
Grapple hook as an offensive weapon still doesn't really fit this game lore...it would be ok as a climbing tool for the infiltrator or perhaps the engineer. I just dont see the devs adding it to the game at this point. I think the jump pad idea on the engineer forum has more hope. It actually fits the lore that they have made for PS2 and would work in the terms of the tech.
Yeah, I was thinking of this device as more of a offensive tool, figured it would suit you folk in combination with the jetpack as a means to drop people to their deaths. With that said, I don't really enjoy overlapping themes when it comes to alternative classes, which is why I wouldn't have given it to the Infiltrator. While some amongst our class like the idea, I'd rather we get the ability to bypass Anti-Personal shields through our Advanced Hacking tier. Likely to be a tier five perk, naturally, but it makes far more sense for our class from a lore perspective...and lets us compliment you folk without treading on your toes simultaneously.
There's more to LA than shotguns =\ Let's not make this personal, shall we? What and how I've done in school is none of your business. You sound like it will look like this: "Developer: OK, LA forums, we're releasing our LA revamp tomorrow, any last minute ideas?" I'm sure they will give us enough time to discuss and bring up ideas. More likely, that process will take twice as long as actually needed. I don't why you're projecting that "last possible second" on me, I said no such thing. I said "all in its due time", and our "due time" is at least half a year away. In half a year three quarters of forum posters will be replaced by other people, and no one will remember that brilliant idea. Perfecting a concept, theorycrafting and munching over tiniest details shouldn't be done by player anyway, that's the job of the dev team. It's not like they will give us a paper and some glue and say "OK, LA forums, feel free to shape LA in whatever form you want", and we will blow dust from that refined solution we worked on three months back, and use it to make LA a class of our dreams in no time. My methodology is not "make everything in the las second". My methodology is "make the best use of resources at hand". In this case, our resources are the collective mind, will and determination of the forum. We can apply them by pushing for changes we consider best. But for the time being, we can't apply our resources, because devs won't make any significant changes until our unscheduled revamp. So using our resources now will just waste them in fruitless effort. I, ofcourse, realize, that this is a replenishable (renewable?) resource, but I still see no reason to waste let it go to waste on a matter, again, was munched over by ten guys before you, who all too believed their idea to be fresh and new. What, you think when LA revamp comes, devs will say: "Okay, give us your brilliant ideas, guys!" and you will post them a link to refined, perfectly theorycrafted solution that most forum members agree on, a wall of text, and the dev team will gather at the Round Table room, and they will all look upon that forum post and nod agree-ingly? That's not how it will be. Did the devs ask infiltrators about what infiltrators want done in infil revamp? That's not how they work. They throw out ideas, and see if people upvote or downvote them. It takes an enormous amount of effort on the part of the playerbase to change even the slightest thing in the game. Infiltrators have been complaining about no-BASR-OHK-at-range-with-nanoweave for as long as I remember. It took devs A YEAR of post-release beta in order to even post a proposed change to the damn thing. Imagine how long and how hard we would have to beg for grappler thing to be implemented? What the devs want is to please the most amount of players with the least effort, and creating a whole new tool with questionable application hardly sounds along those lines.
It's not? Kidding, of course. The shotgun is simply a logical choice for combined tactics, it wouldn't be the only effective way to use the device though...just one of the better examples. The ability to drag targets away from their comrades and into yours would still be quite beneficial despite what weapon you might be wielding. Still, I don't play Light Assault myself...this was simply a fleshed out concept based around a joke I made in another thread regarding the amusing concept of watching a LA drag someone into the sky and drop them to their deaths. So, I'm not invested in the idea...simply presenting it out of boredom and personal entertainment. Hey now, you're the one who said I was stroking my ego...I should be able to get sassy too! As you stated, people come and go... Those are individuals who could have potentially pointed out flaws or better refined the idea in ways that others may not have thought of. Fact of the matter is, an idea gets further refined as time progresses and when more minds have had a say. Essentially, you work on something longer...the chances are it's going to be far better than the initial concept. Take the Customizable Resident Artificial Intelligence thread. A great idea that's been fleshed out and contributed to by many individuals. Are the chances of it being incorporated high? Of course not, chances are significantly low...but not impossible. Personally, I've never deemed creative thought and progression of ideas a waste of time. Again, I just don't feel that creative thought and a progression of ideas is a waste of time, at the very least...you're working out your think meat. You're right, the chances are always slim...hell, they're finally addressing Nanoweave and making things questionably worse for Infiltrators...if you're a long ranged sniper that is. Still, it's fairly obvious that they take the community's thoughts into consideration. Take the Urban Environment requests that have been advocated for throughout the suggestions forum...that one was actually addressed by the development team due to an obscene amount of interest. We know now that they too want to do this...but have expressed that if it happens, it'll be down the road due to how time consuming it will be to incorporate all the unique objects required to do it properly. True night has also been addressed recently, expressing that they need more lighting sources and mechanics incorporated into the game before they can actually tackle this desire. Flares you can toss on the ground, things like that. Basically, It never hurts to try, and it's never bad to think. Pretty much all I'm saying here.
I didn't make wild assumptions about your past. I merely stated a fact. It's pretty easy to make such a statement, because in the end pretty much all human social activity boils down to stroking ego - increasing own perceived social status. For instance, that's exactly about what our whole discussion here was about, whether you're willing to admit it or not. Well, when you say it like that, I have to agree. It's just that thinking the same thought again and again gets old. I can't be not grumpy when I see the same thing suggested again and again, discussed over and over just to reach the same conclusion and meet the same end.
On the contrary, I simply enjoy flexing my imagination. Our conversation here is a result of me having an abundance of time on my hands and nothing better to do than discuss. That and I completely disagree with your belief that we shouldn't humor and discuss potentially fantastical concepts presented upon the forums just because the development team is unlikely to consider them...or rather, what I believed you were expressing with your words. Don't you think I'd be just a little more butt hurt by the lack of interest in this particular concept were it all an attempt at inflation of my ego? It makes logical sense that I would be. My butt feels o.......kay. Understandable, I just hadn't seen anything akin to this particular offensive mechanic discussed. Granted, I hadn't actually reviewed the plethora of threads involving the grappling hook idea, but felt that this offensive aspect was unique enough to present and see what everyone else thought. With that said, if someone else did address it before...I completely understand your annoyance. Ultimately, what this boils down to is Scorpion's ability off Mortal Kombat...and I'd completely expect that someone, somewhere, has gotten it in their head before...and potentially posted it. So, if that's the case, then I'd fully expect the annoyance you're displaying.
A grappling hook would definitely be welcomed, I'll say that much. Jump jets only allow a small degree of ascension before requiring a recharge, and this would be immensely welcomed help in getting up to a position to reach maximum effectiveness of the light assault class. However, I'm not 100% sure if I agree with being able to lasso hostile forces, as I can see that turning into another "OMG OP NERF" debacle (like the current ZOE one we have on our hands), regardless of how powerful/useful it is or isn't. Other than that, though, I say make it happen.
ur thinking too small. Stop thinking as an individual, this isn't CoD. Small changes go much further than you think, and increasing the depth of individual classes so much with new multi faceted/multi use tools and abilities draws attention away from the game's massive scope.
Thanks, That's essentially why I included that aspect despite primarily focusing upon offensive capabilities. Would give a little leeway to the fuel usage of the jets by allowing you to suspend yourself indefinitely via tool. With that said, I loathe balance based upon frustration...hence why I'm all for the offensive capabilities even if it might frustrate players. Frustration is something that you overcome in games to receive an extreme psychological reward, it's sad to see so many complain that they're challenged by balanced mechanics that frustrate them in games. You didn't have this back in the day...when someone complained, it was about people run and gunning with the rocket launcher at extreme close quarters and yet, mysteriously, not killing themselves with the blasts...things like that. Actually, I'm thinking of macro implications as well. The offensive capabilities of this concept would bring more team oriented mechanics into the Light Assault by granting them the ability to pull enemies into the fray. If there's a bunch of enemy infantry guarding a room and you're allies are attempting to breech these defenses...one medic peeking his head out to pop off a few rounds may find himself thrust right into a situation he never wanted. Granted, I'm not saying that I understand any of the current problems with the Light Assault that need addressed before they get new spiffy toys, I don't play the class. I'm sure there's plenty of small things that you all want tweaked. As for CoD, I wouldn't understand the reference. This is the first FPS game I've played since Counter Strike. I was far more interested in Delta Force: Land Warrior, but when games began to solidify around the Counter Strike style of FPS...I abandoned them. So, when people mention new gen FPS games, I'm a bit out of the loop.
