Giving Engagement Radar Blocking back to Valkyrie

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Insignus, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Insignus

    Summary

    As you may or may not know, the stealth Certline for all aircraft was changed recently so that at max rank, it no longer completely blocks Engagement Radar.

    After engaging opinions from the community regarding the recent stealth changes, I’m proposing the Vehicle Stealth certification for the Valkyrie be changed so as to negate and completely block Engagement Radars (ER) from ESFs and Skyguards, essentially a reversion to the pre-change state.

    Short Arguments:

    1) Stealth has traditionally held greater value for the Valkyrie, which is traditionally the aircraft with the least defensive capabilities, but it is still among the slowest of air vehicles, meaning it is less capable of shooting back at ESFs, but can’t really run away, either.

    2) That this new change reduces the rewards and incentives for developing and applying skill on the part of the Valk Pilot, by reducing the ability of the Valk to leverage its maneuverability in A2A settings, as ESFs can keep constant passive tracking on it at all times within range.

    3) That this distorts the relationship between Valks and ESF in favor of the ESF, a position that it was already inherently advantaged in,

    4) That enacting this proposal would allow for the creation of a truly exceptional and unique role for the Valk within the air game, boosting its value as its squad-based asset.

    Is this do-able?

    This would entail effectively forking the certification lines – creating one cert line for the Valk and one for all other aircraft.

    This has already been done, as part of the update that granted an additional 50m reduction to ER for the Valk.

    Long Form Arguments for Negation

    Points we’ll be covering:
    1) Stealth as vital to Valkyrie Defense
    2) Reduction of skill rewards for Valkyrie Pilots
    3) Augmentation of Skills for ESF Pilots
    4) Opportunity to finally create a true niche for the Valkyrie

    Stealth as central to Valkyrie Defense Strategies

    Prior to the implementation of ESFs and in-built Engagement radars, stealth was seen as the go to defensive options for Valkyries. ER Negation made it even more central to the Valkyrie. There are obvious benefits to evading ESF tracking in the first place – but the benefits once a Valkyrie has been spotted by an ESF are even more critical.

    Whereas aircraft like the liberator and Galaxy are robust enough to survive a sustained assault by an ESF for an extended period of time as they fly to help (Or mount a sustained attack of their own) the Valkyrie, even with various buffs against ESF Noseguns, is still slower and highly susceptible to the ESF, as it has only one really effective anti-air weapon vs. ESFs (The Wyvern), which requires a gunner to use. While rumble seat repair is a definite hedge against total ESF domination, there are really only two strategies against ESFs – fighting or running.

    Running

    The Valkyrie cannot outrun an ESF, but it can escape and evade – by using snap maneuvers, terrain, and obstacles to lose Line of Sight and buy itself more time to get away or repair damage. Without ER Negation, the ESF is given a constant track within a short radius that it can easily make up and chase the Valkyrie within to maintain a constant awareness of its position.

    Escaping and Evading requires skill on the part of the Valkyrie pilot, or even just surviving, requires skill on the part of the Valkyrie pilot – as one is being asked to out-think and out-fly an aircraft that is designed to hunt you. The loss of ER Negation completely obviates this tactic, meaning that under the new vehicle stealth changes, the skill ceiling for the Valkyrie has been lowered, while the skill floor has been raised, while a major vector for demonstrating proficiency and achieving personal satisfaction has been destroyed.

    Fighting

    When fighting an ESF, without ER negation, the ESF has a constant track and bead on the Valkyrie, meaning that while it can evade and use its ARS and FS fairly regularly, the Valkyrie’s ability to break LoS and off-put an ESF with maneuvers is reduced, enabling the ESF to pivot and bee-line on the Valkyrie. While this behavior in general may be an intended effect in ESF vs. ESF engagements, particularly for newer pilots, for the Valkyrie, it is not only disadvantageous, but deadly.

    The ESF and the Valk have some differences in maneuverability, and exploiting these by pushing the airframe’s limits is one of the signature ways that a Valk can survive in an air to air engagement. This often means obtaining a brief positional advantage to allow repairs (Rumble or FS) to recover health to survive the next clip from the ESF. The Vehicle Stealth Changes mean that ESF pilots will be better able to anticipate and react to snap maneuvers from the Valk, which are used to off-put and over-extend the ESF pilot and buy a few precious seconds for the Valk by disrupting the ESF’s aim or reducing their firing window.

    Thus, again, in this arena, the skill ceiling for the Valkyrie is lowered, while its skill floor is raised. Pilots are less rewarded for their maneuverability, skill, or good sense, while ESF pilots are given a hand-hold in an engagement that they are already well advantaged in. This dis-incentivizes Valk pilots from operating near ESFs, which not only decreases the Valk’s utility value, but also decreases the targets for ESF pilots, which leads to boredom, which logically leads to ground farming or camping behaviors.

    Unnecessary Augmentation of ESF Pilot skills vs. Valk

    The intended effect of the Vehicle stealth changes was to level the playing field by giving newer or less skilled ESF pilots a better ability to keep up with and track higher skilled ESF pilots in the Air-to-Air realm. Whether or not this change accomplishes that effect is a separable issue for another thread.
    But in applying to all aircraft, it has the effect of improving the ESFs abilities in A2A engagements with those other aircraft. Galaxies and Liberators are less affected by this – as large, easily visible targets, they were likely not benefiting from ER negation that much in the first place, and they have not only larger health pools, but much more ample weapons with which to defend themselves.

    The Valk, by contrast, has much less health, is arguably louder, and is no faster than a Gal, and is much slower than a Liberator. This establishes its unique disadvantage under these new Vehicle Stealth change. While it has rumble seat repair, it also has dramatically less armor than Gals and Libs.

    The ESF vs. Valk relationship has always been contentious – resulting in the coinage of the phrase “Cert Pinatas” by many pilots, for how easily they viewed Valks as targets. Whereas the Valk has to rely upon a gunner to operate its only weapon, the ESF pilot directly operates its weapons, many of which are explicitly designed for A2A.

    This is a result of its role as an interceptor – a role that it should excel in. The ESF – and its pilots - do not need additional augmentation to address some disadvantage or disparity in its relationship with the Valk. The changes to vehicle stealth thus serve no real purpose in the ESF/Valk relationship other than to make it easier for ESF pilots to do something they are already advantaged at, while removing any ability for Valk Pilots to make up the difference by applying their own skills, which in turn cheapens any accomplishment of the ESF pilot in killing a Valk, because after all, where’s the skill, fun, or fairness in playing a game of Pinata if you’ve already lifted the blindfold?

    Creating a Unique Niche for the Valk

    The Valkyrie has long been short on filling a unique or exceptional role in the broader airgame. Liberators are better at A2G, Galaxies are seen as better at transport, and ESFs are just seen as better A2G/A2A platforms, period. Its common selling points for the average player is that is generally regarded as cheap, and therefore disposable, which inhibits its usage as a persistent, squad based asset.
    If the Valkyrie were the only aircraft that was completely immune to Engagement Radars, this would solidify it as having a role as a viable, stealth insertion platform.

    Specific Changes

    Enacting this proposal would, for the Valk, retain the current progression for Vehicle Stealth, but would add back in completely blocking Engagement Radar at max rank.

    I'm unclear as to the prior mechanic of how this was achieved, but given how recent the changes to vehicle stealth were, I feel comfortable that the code to do this is present. Furthermore, as previously noted, there are currently two cert lines for Vehicle Stealth - one for the Valk, and all other aircraft.

    Conclusion

    Thank you for taking the time to read through these arguments. I appreciate any comments and thoughts you may have on this subject.
    • Up x 3
  2. OldMaster80

    To me Stealth changes are not the problem. The problem is the idea to give every single ESF in the universe Engagement Radar was a mistake.

    Why a vehicle that could potentially outrepair damage, has additional belly armor and now has better weapons (like CAS-14) should be totally unspottable?
  3. Insignus

    Because it can't out repair (only 1 engineer can repair now) unless it dodges a certain percentage of a clip, which is made more difficult due to the ER tracking. The belly armor buffs vs. ESF guns are minimal at best, trading in fractions of a second in survivability. A number of the guns were cut back from their initial CAI buffs.

    Finally, it still can't out-run ESFs, and is heavily dependent on dodging and evasion to survive, particularly in close terrain. Which the stealth nerfs altered drastically.
    • Up x 2
  4. adamts01

    I didn't read it all, but I agree with what I did read. Stealth Valks were never a problem. This would reinforce their role as covert transport.
    • Up x 1
  5. strikearrow

    True stealth valks are not a problem. The problem with valks is with rumble seat repair and fire suppress, they can absolutely out-repair any damage an ESF can hit them with so long as they fly correct evasion. They can literally fly at max altitude in circles above a base and a single ESF, Lib or Gal will not be able to shoot them down.
  6. REZistance

    I support this request wholeheartedly. Truth is, as an ESF you are in no danger of a slow-*** super loud Valk sneaking up on you. We like to hide a Valk with scout radar in certain battles and it's done for as soon as the first ESF flies by.

    Hey OP.. make this a thread on Reddit and I'll support it there as well. The devs need to see this. We've got to get Engagement Radar blocked with Stealth 4 on the Valks.
    • Up x 2