Give the Valkyrie a Cloaking ability

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Drakortha, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Drakortha

    Topic says it all really.. this vehicle needs some help getting to it's destination without being easily spotted, hunted and shot down. It doesn't have the getaway speed of an ESF, or the defense guns on a galaxy or liberator.

    A cloaking ability would be well suited to this vehicle so that it can be used more strategically to transport a squad safely to it's destination, or to avoid being spotted behind enemy lines.
    • Up x 1
  2. Scrundle

    As nice and fun an idea as this is I don't think I can support it and I say that as an old Phantasm pilot, the trolling potential of an invisible valk is just too high and beside that it would turn it into an incredible ambush hunter.
    Please note that I'm not disagreeing with your claim that it needs some work but I really do not think a cloak is the way to go if so.
  3. Demigan

    I prefer an omniversal afterburner. Having invisible Valkyries go around is a bit too much especially with how much of an A-hole you can already be (this is mostly the problem with the G2A system if nothing else, so if that gets set straight we can look further).

    I would also like the Valkyrie to get more alternatives. Make the rumble seats a weapon slot, with the rumble seats+safe fall as standard in there. But you can swap them out for pilot-controlled weapons, or remove 2 rumble seats and put gun turrets in there that the remaining 2 seats operate and things like that.
  4. LaughingDead

    The only thing the valk actually could use is more gunseats on the sides. The thing with them is that even if you load up 6 people, you're going to, at most, have 2 repairmen and 2 heavies, everything else is moot
  5. topgunsmurf

  6. DemonicTreerat

    Ah, no.

    All the problems we had with cloaked Flashes being able to get behind tanks pretty much at will and 2-clip them in the time it took the tank (with max Rival chassis) to turn around and locate their tiny attacker (which cost 1/9th their own cost), and you want to give the same ability to something that can A) fly, B) has a heavier gun, and C) can be used to as a mobile spawn for 11 people? Oh lets not forget a hefty reduction in ground to air damage courtesy of free armor on the belly.

    The sheer number of restrictions such as flight speed, no passengers, etc that would have to be in place to make that remotely balanced would render the whole concept useless outside of the cheese-fits who live to find the most abusive way to exploit mechanics solely for the purpose of ruining other peoples fun. Far better to ask for things like an afterburner (Lib got one for free even when it didn't need it) or the option to replace 2 of the rumble seats with pilot-controlled ESF-grade weapons.
    • Up x 1
  7. Demigan

    What do you mean, "had"?

    The changes did everything to the Flash EXCEPT stop Flashes murder tanks in a quick attack. Especially 2/2 Flashes with a deci on the back are still capable of this, and that was one of their greatest problem.

    A real solution would have seen the weapons on the Flash require a short moment to power up again after each decloak, rather than prevent going stealth quickly again. By all means keep the startup drain upon activation, it limits the amount of quick attacks&decloaks the player might attempt, but this prevention of cloak makes the stealth Flash even less used than it already was.

    On that note, change the stealth module to an infantry class module. It takes the ability of the class that's operating it and boosts it. Heavies would get a powerful overshield ability. Infils their current cloak, LA's could get limited flight capabilities, engi's an AOE repair maybe and Medics an AOE health and shield regeneration. It gives players much better reasons to pull Flashes, and if they can be cheap enhancing units we see more of them used. Could be fun trying to take down a Flash in the middle of enemy columns because its repairing them, or seeing an LA cross large sections of dangerous terrain or climb a steep area quickly.
    Because people will be afraid of it, weapons could still be locked after use of some abilities, disallowing for example an LA to use its C4 until he lands (even after leaving the Flash) after flying over an enemy vehicle.
    • Up x 2
  8. Scroffel5

    To the original poster, this is a bad idea. All air combat vehicles are pretty good. They don't need a buff. Its hard enough to shoot down a Valkyrie as it is, so why buff it? Next people would suggest that every other vehicle gets a cloak, or at least every other air vehicle, when they are insane as they are now.

    Now, to Demigan, you crazy, crazy man. Post that idea in your own threat. I'd vote for it. I like the idea of all of that. I don't agree with a nerf to the Flash's killing potential, because I have never been able to easily destroy a tank 1/2 Wraith Flash. I use my mag, go to reload, and when I am turning around or backing up, I get instantly blown up by the MBT. 2/2 Wraith Flash with a Heavy on the back could be a different story. Never tried, but I literally NEVER have EVER seen it, except in a video by Doom. I think the idea of a low cost transport that, with skill and an extra passenger, being able to take down an MBT is fine as it is. That requires coordination, and to be fair, 2 of anything can pretty much down 1 of anything. That is usually how it works. 2 AA turrets can down 1 ESF easily enough. 2 ESF can down a Valkyrie easily enough. 2 Valkyries can down a Galaxy fast enough, and so on and so on. I think the Flash is in a good place right now. Think about it. I know this is just a game, but in real life, if you had a vehicle sneak up on a tank, and it had a grenade launcher and rocket dude on the back, don't you think it would down that tank? It is literally the stupidest thing ever, and an army general would probably laugh at you for suggesting to hide in bushes with a quad that has a modified grenade launcher and a big rocket launcher dude strapped to the back. Its so crazy that it just might work.

    On your general idea, I love it. I think a class specific ability for the Flash would set it apart from other vehicles. Flashes can easily get into a base, but there is no point of you being a sitting duck on an unshielded target when you are exposed. By doing this AMAZING idea that you suggested here, it would give a point to the Flash other than being a Wraith or low cost transport.
    • Up x 1
  9. LaughingDead

    The thing is the nanite cost man. If you're paying 50 nanites for a bit of coordination and free class abilities and tools to killa 450 nanite "Tank" then whats the point of the nanite cost in the first place?

    I swear, the MBT gets dunked on by 70% of the vehicles in the game, the ones that do have either even ground with them when they flank or they're a sunderer, so much for "main battle tank", I could do everything almost better in a lightning.
    • Up x 2
  10. adamts01

    It could work if troops could only exit while on the ground, and if all guns were locked while invisible and for maybe 5 seconds after de-cloak.
  11. Scroffel5

    Yeah, I can see that from your point of view. I usually can't take down a decent tank if I am in a Lightning, even less so if I am on a Flash. The thing is, you have to stay alive 9 minutes for your tank to be reimbursed for your nanites, which isn't that hard. I constantly see that 1/2 MBT sitting around, farming up vehicles and infantry, and then retreating when things get hard. The Flash, on the other hand, is reimbursed for its nanites in 1 minute. The other thing is, it dies in 1 hit from every MBT default weapon if it is a direct hit. If it hits the player but doesn't kill them, your Flash is on fire unless you have certain upgrades, if I am not mistaken. If you want to run a Wraith Cloak, you sacrifice fire suppression, so you would need an Engineer. Basically what I am saying is, the TTK of a 1/2 Flash does not compete with the TTK of any of the 1/2 MBTs. If you have a Heavy on the back, you should still be able to turn around fast enough to take them down. I don't know about any of you, but when I get shot in any vehicle, I turn to see whats going on.

    Let me give you an example of all of this. You are a sniper, and you are standing still. You are hammering down shots in the direction of your enemy, bagging some kills. You are making a ton of noise, but you still continue to stand still. After all, they don't have any Infiltrators on their side to come and kill you. Then, all of a sudden, bang bang bang bang! You just got headshotted 4 times from behind and you died. What happened? A sneaky light assault heard you shooting, snuck up on you, and killed you. Whose fault was it? Well, that can't really be determined without getting hate back, but you shouldn't have stood still. You should have checked your minimap. You should have listened. If they had missed a few shots, however, you may have had time to turn around and take them down.

    What is my point? The Infiltrator is by no means an MBT, but I used them as a prime example of what happens when you stand still. Someone would flank you and kill you. The Flash won't instantly kill you either, as it would feel like if a Light Assault chained headshots on you. The MBT has the capability of destroying infantry in 1 hit, and can destroy other vehicles relatively quickly. The Flash is a one hit target that should be pretty easy to hit because of how close it would be. If you are a tank and get destroyed by a pesky little Flash, I can't really help you there. You could have just turned around and blown it to smithereens.

    Now, I have said this before, and I will say it again, but 2 of anything can pretty much destroy 1 of anything. If you had 2 light assaults, they could down an MBT. They even have C4 to do just that. If you had 2 Lightnings, you could down an MBT. There are more guns firing at it. If you have 2 Flashes, you could probably down that Lightning. If you have 2 people on a Flash, you are probably gonna down that MBT. Sure, the Nanite cost for it is low, but it does require some coordination. You won't be instantly killed when you are that MBT. You have ample time to turn around and do something about it.

    They already did the 5 second thing and that didn't work well. I think troops exiting to the ground while in the air is fine, because they would take the fall damage and probably die anyways. My point is that it is risky if you don't have safe fall. For the Light Assault, the jetpack would help with that, but at that point you also had C4 so it didn't matter.

    All guns locking for 5 seconds would be super, super annoying. It may work on paper, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I can get the Flashes weapons having to reboot or something after the cloak is used because of a power drain, but why your own personal weapons? You couldn't hold or fire those to begin with, and the Wraith Cloak isn't part of you; it is part of your vehicle. Another reason it would be annoying is that you couldn't take down an enemy shooting at you for 5 seconds. Say an infantry unit is shooting you, so you get off of your Flash or you decloak. Oh well, can't shoot them for another 5 seconds, or for instance, another Flash is shooting at you. If you uncloak, you still can't shoot them. If you stay cloaked, you get shot. I just don't think people would receive that well.

    As I have said, I think the Flash is in a good place, and what Demigan mentioned is a good idea. However, I don't think that the ability should be an On/Off kind of thing. It should definitely have a cool-down to avoid spam. The upgrades for the system should benefit all, so it would say "Wraith Recharges 5 seconds faster" "LA Jets recharge 5 seconds faster" "Medic Nano Regen recharges 5 seconds faster" "HA Overshield gains 5% more health" "Engineer Nano Repair AoE is 5% bigger" and more things like that, and for the final upgrade, it gets a special buff, like for implants. It doesn't necessarily have to be more health or a faster cooldown, but just more things like that.

    Side question: Does anyone know if the Wraith Cloak works with Deep Operative and if it is almost invisible if you are still (0MPH)?
  12. adamts01

    Troops only exiting while parked is so there wouldn't be an invisible spawn point, or C4 fairies pouring from an invisible source.

    Locking the turret and passenger guns is because flof the monstrous and instant dps of 2 Decimators + VLG out of nowhere, or 1-clipping an ESF with 2 Strikers.

    That's the suction to 2/2 Flashes as well. It's the easiest thing in the world to instakill MBTs with the Fury/Deci combo. That ability wasn't nerfed at all with the Flash nerfs. They really didn't know what they were doing there.
  13. Scroffel5

    Its not really an invisible spawn point, though. Only one unit would get off and do damage to vehicles, and most people don't recognize when a C4 Fairy is flying over a sunderer anyways. The appropriate thing to do would be to nerf Decimators. I see everyone talking about this combo, Fury and Decimator, but none of the other launchers, so is the Flash the problem or is it the Decimators?
  14. TR5L4Y3R

    considering how bad ground AA is ... no lets NOT give the gunship with transportcapability and rumbleseats the ability to be less visible ..
  15. iller

    I used to be on the Valk cloaking band wagon but I honestly don't think it even needs it anymore.
    It's gotten enough buffs in other areas and I feel like the DOWNSIDE they'd have to add to a cloaking Module now would make the damn thing completely unplayable in a sustained firefight where they currently are starting to show some real potential finally.

    Infact I think the only way you could even make a Cloaking module on it "balanced" at this point is if the entire crew had to be all Infiltrators....
  16. Scroffel5

    Ok, thats an idea. If the whole crew was Infiltrators, there would be a point in cloaking. I don't know if you understand the gravity of this situation, but you said it perfectly. Drum roll please...



    STEALTH OPS!!! IMAGINE THAT! Literally stealthing to bases and taking them down. I was against having cloaking, but now, I didn't even think of that. Does it need it? No. Does that sound awesome? YES!

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