[Suggestion] Give NC Heavy Assaults the GD-22s as starter LMG

Hey y'all !

DISCLAIMER: This is not a "NC is undapowad plz buff"-thread, surprisingly enough this is my opinion and observation of playing NC on Miller (former the Woodman server for me) ! So tighten your seatbelts and don't get your safe spaces too much shaken up !

As I'm playing since a while on my NC toon (level 91, 1286h of playtime) I notice quite often newer NC Heavy Assault players who don't use the standard Gauss-Saw (NC) to its full potential. Most of them spray, compensate virtually nothing and don't have a single clue what's up with their bloom and Cone of Fire, while being sprayed down by also new heavy assault players with their Orion-VS54 (VS) and the T9-Carv (TR).

This is not a good new player experience. That's why I argue for the easier to handle GD-22s.

1. So let's go over to some math shall we (The Information is from in the game and the playerside beta) !
What about the pure Damage Per Second scaling of all the 3 starter LMGs [unmodified] of the VS, TR and NC plus the GD-22s ?

We'll use that old fashioned formula: ( RPM ) : ( 60 [seconds] ) x (Damage per bullet) = DPS

Let's start with the maximum damage range (up to 10m):

[TR] T9-Carv: ( 750 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 143 ) = ( 12,5 ) x ( 143 ) = 1787
[VS] Orion-VS54: ( 750 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 143 ) = ( 12,5 ) x ( 143 ) = 1787
[NC] Gauss-Saw: ( 500 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 200 ) = ( 8,33333 ) x ( 200 ) = 1666,666
[NC] GD-22s: ( 577 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 167 ) = ( 9,61667 ) x ( 167 ) = 1605,98

And now the minimum damage range (those differ so they are noted for each gun individually):

[TR] T9-Carv (65m): ( 750 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 125 ) = ( 12,5 ) x ( 125 ) = 1562,5
[VS] Orion-VS54 (65m): ( 750 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 125 ) = ( 12,5 ) x ( 125 ) = 1562,5
[NC] Gauss-Saw (85m): ( 500 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 167 ) = ( 8,33333 ) x ( 167 ) = 1391,67
[NC] GD-22s (75m): ( 577 ) : ( 60 ) x ( 143 ) = ( 9,61667 ) x ( 143 ) = 1375,2

=> Those stats tell us that ONLY regarding the raw DPS output these 2 NC LMGs are worse than the VS and TR starting ones but have minimum damage-wise better ranges and maintain a higher damage level per bullet (Player and playstyle dependent things like: CoF, recoil compensation, the ability to aim precisely, reaction time and situational awareness aren't represented here by any means).

Now let's have a look at the accuracy:

That's the pattern we'll stick with :
Crouch Accuracy | Crouch Move Accuracy | Stand Accuracy | Stand Move Accuracy | Accuracy Loss Per Shot Fired

Starting of with the hip accuracy (higher numbers are worse):

[TR] T9-Carv: 3.5 | 4 | 4 | 4.5 | 0.1
[VS] Orion-VS54: 2.25 | 2.5 | 2.5 | 3.25 | 0.1
[NC] Gauss-Saw: 3.5 | 4 | 4 | 4.5 | 0.14
[NC] GD-22s: 2.25 | 3 | 3 | 3.75 | 0.12

Going over to the aim accuracy (higher numbers are worse)

[TR] T9-Carv: 0.1 | 0.2 | 0.1 | 0.4 | 0.05
[VS] Orion-VS54: 0.1 | 0.2 | 0.1 | 0.4 | 0.04
[NC] Gauss-Saw: 0 | 0.2 | 0 | 0.4 | 0.07
[NC] GD-22s: 0.03 | 0.2 | 0.03 | 0.35 | 0.06

=> Those stats show that the Gauss-Saw is the worst LMG of the four hipfire-wise while being the best at aimed accuracy when the player isn't moving and not shooting too many bullets at once (burst fire is a good option), whilst the GD-22s is pretty ok in both departments.

Now to the magazine size, reload time and the muzzle velocity:

Magazines:

[TR] T9-Carv: 100 Bullets per mag
[VS] Orion-VS54: 50 Bullets per mag
[NC] Gauss-Saw: 100 Bullets per mag
[NC] GD-22s: 50 Bullets per mag

=> The GD-22s 50 Bullets are less than the 100 rounds of the Gauss-Saw but still enough to deal with multiple targets and have a slight suppressive fire effect on the enemy.

Reload time in seconds (Long reload 0 Bullets left / Short reload atleast 1 bullet left in the gun):

[TR] T9-Carv: 6.2s / 5.4s
[VS] Orion-VS54: 3.44s / 3s
[NC] Gauss-Saw: 7.5s / 6.5s
[NC] GD-22s: 3.77s / 2.28s

=> The GD-22s and the Orion are the winners here (while the Orion having a better long reload time but the GD-22s having a way better short reload time). In the second place is the T9 and the last place falls to the Gauss-Saw. Due to a player having to reload a weapon at some point, more often but shorter reloads will generally be better than rarer and also longer reloads; the latter ones making it easier to get you caught with your pants down.


And now the muzzle velocity (in metres per second):

[TR] T9-Carv: 600m/s
[VS] Orion-VS54: 540m/s
[NC] Gauss-Saw: 600m/s
[NC] GD-22s: 620m/s

=> The GD-22s slightly wins here by having 20m/s more muzzle velocity than the Gauss-Saw and the T9 with just 600m/s. The Orion loses here with 540m/s. The GD-22s 620m/s per second is not really noticeable more than 600m/s but it still is a tad easier in regard of leading your shots, especially for newer players.

2. Now to my own experience:

This part may be biased so take it with a pinch of salt!

I have the Gauss-Saw, GD-22s, LA1 Anchor and the EM6 on my NC toon on auraxium and I personally like them all. I don't think the Gauss-Saw nor the GD-22s are underpowered (especially when you chain headshots with them); they are good in their departments.
Whilst I see the GD-22s more as a quite good allround LMG, I think the Gauss-Saw is rather specialised in ranged combat and less an allround gun. Of course with enough practise and attachments you can minimise the drawbacks of the Gauss-Saw (long reload, horrible bloom and high recoil) and make it work as viable CQC headshot machine, but that takes practise and time and most of the new players simply don't have that.
Most of the other NC starter guns atleast are allround weapons like the Mercenary for the Light Assault or the Gauss Rifle for the Medic class, making them good without tons of practise in more than one specialised combat scenario.

This leads me to my opinion of giving the NC Heavy Assault class instead of the specialised Gauss-Saw, the more versatile and easier to handle GD-22s which could possibly reduce frustration under newer players.

Thanks for reading ! Comments are greatly appreciated !


PS: This would even work lore-wise (quote of the GD-22s description): "Genudine Dynamics developed the 22S as a possible replacement for the NC6 SAW."

EDIT: I know you get 1500 certs added up when you're lvl 15 and you can possibly buy a different gun, but they should rather be spent in meaningful stuff like abilities, medkits etc. and not just in having to replace a gun.

i think EM1 would be the perfect starter,
it has a lower damage model, EXTREMELY controllable recoil, a quick reload and a large magazine.
everything about it screams "noob friendly"

i'd settle for the GD22S though since everything you wrote is true,
and the SAW is such an unwieldy starter wep

Pretty much anything but the Gauss Saw,even tho it is a beutifull peice of NC machinery its a jerk of all kinds for new players.

People have been saying pretty much since day 1. Yeah the GD-22S is an all rounder while the SAW is a long range LMG.

I haven't tried the EM1 but I heard a lot of people don't really like it.

@Liewec
Yeah the EM1 is also a great starter weapon, agreed (gotta auraxium that lmg one day too ). But aside from all the handling stuff I think the GD-22s kinda fits the NC style a tad better (higher damage per bullet, slower rate of fire). The EM1 is not really faction specific, despite still a great weapon, but that's just me.

Well the EM1 just doesn't follow those set-in-stone laws of NC weaponry like high damage per bullet, slow rate of fire, better damage at range etc. So I'd assume if you're really good with the classic NC weaponry fullfilling those traits then you might dislike the EM1.

anything but the SAW.

even after the HVA changes, its still incredibly hard to control.

before the changes, newbies would unlock HVA thinking it was an upgrade... and they ended up spraying all over.

Exactly, good gun but just not entry level stuff for most of the new playerbase.

GD-22 for starter! Its still definitely NC weapon, but it waaaaaay more usable and beginner friendly than the SAW. Can do every thing okay and can also be outfitted in different ways for different playstyles. Don't know why the SAW was the beginner weapon, GD-22 is the obvious choice. Would also make for a much better game for new players.

My only other point is to consider TTK instead of DPS. Because of the high NC weapon alpha damage, the TTKs on the weapons are very similar, so don't feel down about having less DPS than the enemy, you still kill them just as fast.

#GD-22sForStarter!
Gonna go start that twitter hashtag with a link to this thread!
I've Aruaxiumed that beaut and loved it. The EM1 I nice but it's more like a TR gun than NC.

Thanks man ! Appreciate it

had to change it to #GD22sForStarter, apparently Twitter doesn't like the hyphen.

I do hope when they decide to make a new starter weapon,anyone who has pretty much auraxed or in that general area gets to keep it since its hard effort invested and nobody would want to lose it.

I mean we get to keep the Gauss Saw unless its around auraxed or bellow medal, i couldn't edit my previous one.

Aside from my eyes burning from the raimbow colored text i would like to dissagree of changing the SAW to anything els.

While every other weapon in NC arsenal is easy to control the SAW is the only hard to control. However is not that hard to learn to control (well atleast for me) and its the most NC weapon in whole NC arsenal, as it has the highest damage of all the LMG.

GD is maybe easier to control but it suffers in DPS gategory which is very important to some players.
And while it has decent hipfire, SAW can get almost same hipfire with lasersight (which i happen to use alot, works wonders in close range)

Now then again im not against having more options for newer players on what to get, and we did before the 1500 starting certs, have the option to get the EM1 for free i we chose the heavy assault starting buddle. Then again that was mostly useless as the EM1 only costed 100 certs back i the day, and i would say that some weapons still should cost that little to give more options for the starters.

Four years too late.

This causes more problems than it solves:

What do you do with those who've purchased the GD22? What about those who haven't? Do the ones who haven't lose the ability to have the SAW? What about TR/VS? If you let the NC have a free weapon, do they get one too?

All for what? The 1/3rd of players who out of 10% of them won't stay anyway? And how many new players are coming in? I'd wager not enough to justify this.

Besides.. I'm not convinced the SAW isn't noob friendly. It has a straight up vertical recoil. If you can click the sidescroll box and pull down to scroll down a webpage, you can fire a Gauss SAW. Its literally the same skill required.

I don't think that should be such a big hassle but I'm not a programmer as well. But don't worry I guess they'll figure out an acceptable solution if the Devs got the time for it JUST DON'T TAKE MY GODSAW !

Well I don't use it myself, so I apparently have no clue how to use twitter anyways Good that you folks use those platforms and help us social media newbs

It's never too late (you don't know how often I had this discussion and saw threads focused on exactly that back in the day until I made my own forum account).

It's meant for new players mostly up to BR 15. The new players should automatically get the GD-22s and the ones that are in the range of level 1 - level 15 (or 20) should get a choice between the Gauss-Saw and the GD-22s.
And trust me : If a player doesn't enjoy their stay within the first 4 hours of the game with that class that appeals to him, unnecessary many will quit.

Ah and no it's not the same skill. The Gauss-Saw has way stronger recoil (yes it has a vertical recoil but also quite a strong shake to the left and right), a more difficult bloom, way longer reload and worse accuracy when on the move; BUT we need something that new players can get used to and THEN step up to the big guns. I started playing heavy with a bunch of friends back in early 2013 and we all had that problem (aside from seeing exactly that now with other seemingly new players).

EDIT: What kind of statistic is that anyway "All for what? The 1/3rd of players who out of 10% of them won't stay anyway? And how many new players are coming in? I'd wager not enough to justify this." ?
I mean from what kind of source is that pulled ?

You want to make new players and old more comfortable in this game? Remove CoF while ADSing. Then the weapons will fire like actual firearms and we can get used to them on an intuitive level. The reason players are missing isn't because of recoil, but the CoF.

CoF was added in FPS's to simulate recoil. They didn't have the means to jump the crosshair and view like our recoil in game does. So they relied on RNG, or dice rolls to determine where shots hit. That's the bloom you're talking about. Recoil is when the crosshair rises up, sometimes to the left or right (depending on weapon).

For some odd reason, they use recoil and CoF together when its not needed. That's what is throwing off new players. Realism isn't the reason I say this. Though it is related. When you fire a weapon IRL correctly, a round will hit wherever its aimed if the sight picture is lined up. There is a negligible cone of fire, but its imperceptible at short ranges. But it can cause misses at ranges like 10m even when the crosshair is center mass.

That makes no sense. Not just from a realistic standpoint. But from an intuitive one. I don't expect new players to be proficient in real life with real firearms. But they at least expect a round to go where they are pointing at. Not have to read one of Iridar's guides (which he's done an outstanding job with, sorting out this convoluted mess we have) with algebra and geometry explaining why a round does what it does.

This would have a better impact on gunplay for everyone, not just newbies. Rather than give a percieved faction's class a leg up through a free weapon choice no one else gets.

You know... in most MMORPGS when a class is hard to play. The general consensus is that if its too hard.. play an easier one. This could be applied here. You could merely tell noobs to play Engineer and Medic (and be infinitely more beneficial to the team). No one would argue that the Mercenary and Gauss Rifle are excellent noob weapons. Good damage, good accuracy, decent mag size, and predictable recoil patterns.

But for some odd reason, PS2 players feel like they have to have their hands held. Even Roleplayers.. the bottom rung in skill and capability in MMORPGs don't do that. Roleplayers are more hardcore than FPS players apparently.

Interesting insight on that CoF logic man. The main problem is that if you'd remove that cone of fire aspect you kinda change up the game as a whole. My starting point to this thread was to give NC Heavy Assaults a way more beginner friendly way to play and at the same time keeping it in the easiest way possible for implementing that particular solution.

Also you can't ask a new player for an average class to "Eh go and master it, then it's fun". I get where you are coming from; I like mastering stuff myself in PS2 but we can't just apply that to new players which will easily jump the gun to another faction or leave the game entirely.

Also preventing frustration isn't holding hands; if someone still wants to play the Gauss-Saw he can unlock it later on. I just think in the process of getting used to the NC factions traits the GD-22s seems more of a reasonable choice.