[Suggestion] Get rid of Medical kits, it's just used by experience players to Camp and kill newer players

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by G.O.A.T, Jan 9, 2022.

  1. JustGotSuspended

    no idea, just bored I guess lol
  2. JibbaJabba


    You are describing a fight between veterans. And closely matched ones at that. That's when a medkit comes to play in a single fight. And in that situation skill becomes involved. Split second timing (or lowering elevation) to jump while medkitting to avoid the speed penalty. Knowing which to do when: reload or kit. Or when none of the above if the opponent is anticipated to push. If a noob is putting a veteran into a situation where they are making those decisions, then they are no longer a noob in need of special consideration.

    For the true noob vs veteran discussion, no. It has no impact on the individual fight.

    It just provides post fight recovery, so they are (if the situation allows) close to full strength again during the next engagement.

    The opponent in that next engagement would theoretically have the exact same chances as the previous opponent.

    I don't see a problem with this. At all.

    You want to ruin killstreaks. Why? To what purpose? It just makes "walk back from spawn" more prevalent in the game thereby making it more ******.

    You want to make medics more useful by asking them to do the thing they find to be a chore? Again, makes the game more ******.

    Promotes teamwork? No. Don't think so. You would make zerging or throwing bodies a valid tactic instead of anything resembling skill. Noobs should learn to engage vets 2v1 not get rewarded for engaging them in sequential 1v1s.
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  3. G.O.A.T


    You are not below average or average...You are good and are in top 15 leadersboards usually......If you're average then the normal planetside player sucks.


    Yes a skilled player, top 1% player will land a crapload of headshots and kill you asap....Most people aren't that......With most people, specifically Heavy, you can make a comeback/disengage....Specially in a fight with some distance, where both of you see eachother at the same time...it happens all the time.

    HA + medkit + shield is a save your *** card.....The medkit 500hp is enough to survive a bullet or two(more if they come from long distance) in this game, that's all it takes to make a comeback.....Add in the regular shield, 5 seconds, and the comeback is even easier....Add in the heavy shield, sure I get some slowdown, but it's not that much, specially when Im zigzagging, meanwhile my heavy shield gets hit, my regular shield/health can recover(depends on the situation but this can happen).


    It makes it easier to make a comeback....Comebacks are possible without medkits....It doesn't take much skill to pop it and zig zag away, specially if u already have distance and have some friendlies to back you up...It makes it much easier to take on people and make simple mistakes and not have consequences.

    Medkits cost less than a C4.....With 2 c4s, Im down 150 nanites, I need 3 medkits to do that.....It's much easier to go to the nanite blackhole with 2 c4s, really is easy to lose 150...Much harder to lose 3 medkits as fast as 2 C4....I never done it with medkits, either I die before using them or I use them well, and survive long enough that I never reach the blackhole of nanites.....C4s on the other hand I die when I use them, regardless if I get kills or not, and it's hard with all the friendly fire/enemy fire...So yeah C4 cost way more than Medkits IRL usuage.


    Yes you can do that, hide and pop out with commi without a medkit...It will be harder to do such a comeback like that, that asap health is all it takes to make the comeback....For example, lets say u have the commi, you get shot, get to 100 health, runaway/zigzag/you use the medkit, ur 500hp now, u get shot once, but u get the kill......You would've been dead if it wasn't for the medkit, and the only reason you survived is the medkit...So yeah it saves lives and creates comeback bs scenerios like these.



    It's a tool to make it easier to camp/go on killstreaks.......Experienced players already own normal/new players, medkits just make it way easier.

    Medkits make it so Veterans don't have any consequences for the mistake of getting shot and losing 50-99% of their health....Literally they only consequnces for 5-8 seconds, they get ASAP health, and just wait 8 seconds to be 100%....That is ZERO consequences for good players who will win their engagements.....

    I already destroy people/own people without medkits, they aren't needed at all.....but the medkits just makes it easier for the veteran players to make mistakes and not have any consequences...8 seconds it all it takes to be 100%...I want consequences for players and to make it more skillful.

    They could still recover with a restotation kit, it will just take a bit longer.


    Yes, new players/regular, who aren't coordinated should have the chance of rushing me back to back to kill me....and me as veteran should have the skill to survive it and to survive 10 seconds to regen my health with restoration kit.....Im for recovering health just not ASAP since it's OP/BS.


    Groups of "Vets" aka stat padders/campers always do this tactic....It's easy as hell for 5 of them to get in a room and just pop medkits ASAP and survive....Easy as hell because the medkit is that ASAP health they need and when your facing people coming at you at different times and quickly, these medkits make a huge difference.....It allows vets to screw up hard agaisnt n00bs, and not have any consequences after.

    and that's the thing....A group of vets can already do all of this without medkits, they can dominate/camp places without medkits but it's just harder because consequences matter when you don't have ASAP heal...You have to be more careful.


    No medkits = More skill to pulloff dominations/camps......Simple as that, and why veterans fear this change.
  4. G.O.A.T


    Stats don't prove anything lol......How much my K/D Ratio/KPM is doesn't show you the kills I gotten because of medkits or all the bails because of it lol.

    Stats have nothing to do with this discussion, you just want to compare urself to me or judge me based on my stats which is weird......BTW my KDR/KPM are higher than yours...My stats are pretty good but they don't prove anything in this discussion....You are just using typical forumside irrelevent arguments.



    Yes you improved...and I was just pointing out how your K/D Ratio benefited from medkits....Clearly your K/D ratio would be way less if it wasn't for the medkits.



    I'm all for improvement, which is why I don't need the medkit and why the medkit shouldn't be a thing.....Dodge bullets or face the consequences of getting shot....ASAP medical kit just bails people out....Or have a restoration kit, and wait a while to heal...all of that adds way more skill to the game, but of course it will affect your K/D ratio since it will be harder to stay alive.


    That's the thing tho, you want the game to have easier killstreaks/domination so you can pad your meh stats.


    I'm not posting anything....It was ridiculous how you were asking me, as if my stats prove anything....It's nice that you posted yours tho, it's amazing how you act like an elitist talking about aim and skill ceiling etc with such horrible stats lol....Atleast now I know, that my stats are way better than yours lol.
  5. G.O.A.T


    They help in 1 vs 1s against veterans....and against multiple n00bs/and or n00bs who catch u off guard....Split second timing? most of the time is just runaway around the corner and heal ASAP...their isn't much dodging skill involved.


    Veteran vs n00b/normal players, 1 vs 1....It affects it if the n00bs/normie attack in waves which happens since they aren't coordinated...n00b/normie #1 gets veterans health down to 30%, Veteran ASAP heals, waits 5 seconds, has full health and some shield, 2nd n00b comes in gets destroyed.....2nd noob/normie gets him down to 10% health.......2nd n00b/normie would've killed the veteran in the 1 vs 1, but luckily for him, ASAP health + some shields saved em.


    Post fight recovery? It's ASAP health within a second....You can have an engagement and pop one and still be in the same engagement...It's not post fight recovery is full recovery ASAP during a fight....Restore implant fits the definition of post fight recovery lol.



    Ruin killstreaks? Wut? Killstraks are already easy without medkits lol....Medkits just make em way easier.....For the purpose of adding more skill to the game and to make it more balance......Walk from spawn? ummm all those n00bs/normie players they camp are the ones walking from spawn lol..........They can still heal themselves with restoration kit, it will just be harder to stay alive since it's not ASAP health to save your ***.


    Medics or no medics....if medkits weren't a thing, they will just go to restoration kit....So no, medics wouldn't be needed, Vets will just have to have more skill to survive now since they won't get ASAP health back.


    Vets should have the consequences of getting shot and screwing up....Not have an ASAP medkit to give them full health....That isn't teamwork at all, just make it easier for 1 guy or for a group of vets to easily own people.....Keyword easily....since they can already own people but medkits just make it way easier.


    Vets/Skilled players will still be able to hold off large amounts of people without medkits, it will just take more skill to do.


    Like I said, according to you people's logic, lets just get rid of health all together...Just make it a regen shield....this way the game only rewards skill and somebody can camp a place forever without any consequence....Lets just make it easier to own newer/regular players.
  6. Term

    So then post your charname so we can see how much better they are. Are you that terrified of giving out a single char name?
    • Up x 1
  7. Gutseen

    When you press that nanomesh button you lit up like a target for anyone, 2 bullet armor increase is comical.
    You freaks already whined enough to nerf heavy into a light assault without a jetpack mode, guess what, A2G spam became the norm.

    Take a sulfuric acid bath or something, level of idiocy in your posts make the whole community dumber.
    • Up x 1
  8. ican'taim

    make them only give a set amount of health (like 100 hp or something), instead of a full heal.
  9. JibbaJabba

    Not what I said or meant.

    It takes split second timing to make the speed penalty proc while airborne so your net movement speed is never affected when using a medkit. It's a skill thing. If you're fighting someone good enough that you are this closely matched it may matter.

    Yes. Exactly.

    "they aren't coordinated" your words.

    You describe the gameplay we are after here. The tiniest bit of coordination (do a 2v1) immediately obliterates any and all advantage. Teamwork. Even noobs that do teamwork are powerful. Noobs that do stupid crap with no teamwork whatsoever should NOT be successful.

    No, restore kits provide more health than is in your health pool. Using them post fight is a waste. (They also reveal your recovery location in smoke and dark)

    And why shouldn't they? Are you after a game where the better player walks back from spawn instead?

    AGAIN, a medkit will not have an impact in any 1v1 engagement with a noob. The fight will come to a conclussion *before* the medkit is used.

    If it is not a clean win then the vet goes offline for some seconds (this hugely important in intense fights), is forced to forgo a reload in favor of a kit, uses 1/4 of their resources, and has to pay nanites during the next equip. That's the penalty. That is the consequence.

    The player is left 100% vulnerable to any coordination whatsoever. Noobs can still kill vets but they have to work together. As it should be.

    This statement doesn't make sense.
    Person has skill X and can do "the thing". Now "the thing" takes more skill than X. Net result they won't do "the thing".

    So the Vets/Skilled players will NOT still be able to hold off the same amounts of people. They will be instead walking back from spawn just like the noobs. You will have reduced the skill ceiling of the game and made it suck just a bit more. Genius plan.

    Here, take two doses of **** and get back with me in the morning. You're about to strawman and I'm not gonna have it.

    You mean bionics implant?

    These are your words, not anyone else. Sit in a corner and argue with yourself if you want. That way you can be right.
    • Up x 2
  10. Shadowpikachu

    Just make them heal 500hp quickly in 5 stages of 100, taking an extra half second to get the health.

    This way they are more intended reset design and minimizes that jank stim-dance thing you can do only if you know how to.

    Otherwise i'd be fine if the total amount carried was lower, once they are only reliably used between engagements does it not matter between only one engagement.

    It's potential is only reached by minmaxing sweats that honestly i rarely see outside of the epic rare reddit clip or 'that one guy' in a fight that would've killed you anyways but eventually died to the trickle conga line of 1 guy walking at him repeatedly.

    It's a useful tool that could potentially have the nanites increased.

    Your k/d doesn't matter much once we get into the game design and the intent, please try to think what it effects and why instead of just looking at kills.

    Like we could say add a slow when using it or increase it's use time, but i think the smoothness of it being usable that lets you do some crazy in-out optimize stuff is the blood of the item that i'd only touch if there's literally nothing as good left to do to it.

    It's a c4 alternative, lets start thinking it as self-upkeep/combat potential instead of anti-vehicle or at times anti-infantry mines as a player choice.

    Now we think, does it have not enough limits or does the skill required to pull of some whack **** justify it being this strong?

    To put simply MY personal changes would be:

    - Medkits heal 500, in sections of 100, 5 times over half a second

    - Max held medkits lowered by 1

    What is yours?
  11. JustGotSuspended


    Again this is minimizing skill. You say the intent here would be to prevent players from shuffling, or at least make it less effective for those who know how to do it. So instead of learning and shuffling yourself - a technique that can be helpful to avoid unfavorable engagements, you prefer to just prevent players from doing so. Sounds like lowering the skill ceiling tbh.


    Yeah exactly, it's something that just helps a good player extend the number of waves he can take before dying. Instead of dying after killing 20 players, he dies after killing 60 or whatever. Nothing that impacts a 1v1, just extends the conga line needed to take him down.

    I really think you guys don't know how medkits work. There's a movement penalty applied when you pop one, unless you're able to time a jump perfectly as you pop it that way you can bypass the penalty.


    Honestly I think it's a case of skill. Because I don't see anyone complain about noobs using medkits. Or unskilled players. Everyone's referring to skilled players using medkits. Well if it's skill that makes them good....then the thing's not OP lol, otherwise a noob would be able to pop one and win his fight. It just increases the uptime of a dude who would've likely wrecked the players anyways, even at like 1 health.

    Even the fact most of you neglected the movement penalty seems to indicate it's got complex mechanics that take experience or skill to understand and circumvent.

    I don't get this. They have no impact on 1v1s, yet you want the number reduced? Increased uptime = more fun. I would increase their number. Instead of forcing people to die to zergs or redeploying after a bit, why not give them the option to fight as long as they can, provided they know how to make use of the tools at their disposal to do so? Ofc I understand the limit needs to be reasonable, personally I wouldn't go past like 6 so it doesn't become obvious of a choice over C4, but really if we can avoid players from redeploying by giving them medkits why not?

    Honestly I feel it's more of complaining against skilled players and what they can do with their toolkit over medkits being actually op. If they were op, everyone would be able to easily use them to their advantage. Here it seems to be only an issue when skilled players have them, and since they only restore a person to half health anyways, I fail to see how op they are. Even assuming a guy pops one during an engagement while he's down to 1hp (unlikely), all it's doing is adding 2hs or 4 more body shots to kill max. Given the fact most people pop them at around 300-400hp, it's typically just adding 1-2 bodyshots or one more headshot to kill. Most weapons have 30+ rounds in their magazine....
  12. Shadowpikachu


    Yeah if they had to be nerfed that's what i'd do, though 'minimizing skill' is sorta a dumb argument because if something has SO MUCH skill ceiling it can get crazy in extreme hands to the point of near absurdity. granted this game has a lot of that like bolters where being really good at using one thing can make you godly

    Also thinking about if you can get a medkit in increases the skill to it, just reduces the potential result.

    I get things can be abit op for flavor and fun, perfect balance is boring.

    You do make a good point, if we blend things and make the kits more for downtime while being less effective in direct combat then increase the number of kits we can find a different balance alltogether that can be more healthy for the game?

    Unlike most people im more trying to see if there's a better iteration of them theoretically, rather then at-your-throat debating. i also dont mind if it's unchanged, only the biggest skilled players can even get more out of it optimally, i just think this thread derailed to **** and want to get something worth a **** out of it by now

    And if im wrong, so be it, good to know we went this direction and crossed anything potential off the list.

    With that the TLDR clearness comes out to:

    - Medkit count 6

    - Medkits heal over a half second rather then instant

    Shuffling is fine, it just gets cancerous with the engine abit, shuffling should still be doable but you'll only survive those truely thrown off by your movement rather then refreshing a full health bar everytime, also making you run for cover more rather then dancing forever.

    And at this rate, make restoration kits cooldown based :^)
  13. JustGotSuspended

    eh that's why there's a limit and 2 major downsides for popping a medkit:

    1) movement speed reduction
    2) increased vulnerability (can't shoot back)

    It pushes the skill ceiling up a bit, but there's still some restraint. And as said earlier, most people won't even be able to take advantage of that, they'll die before/as they pop a medkit, which indicates there's some sorta skill needed to time it properly, and to survive long enough to pop one in the first place.

    That's where it differs from infils, where a horrible infantry player will suddenly switch to that class and start racking up kills. Or a2g, where I can just hold down left click and delete a platoon. Sure better players will before better than noobs, but it's stuff that pretty much guarantees a kill/streak out the box. Medkits on the other hand...never seen a medkit guarantee a kill.


    Wouldn't that basically turn them into resto kits actually? Honestly I don't think anything should be changed, but yeah as you said a cooldown would probably be the best way to go, the rest kinda seems either too complicated or changes medkits completely, taking them more to resto kit level. Although at the same time it's not like most players spam medkits, cuz if they do that would shorten their uptime, which seems like a fair trade. Idk this whole thread was kinda weird to begin with...

    Resto kits = impact on 1v1s

    Medkits = impact on uptime/overall killstreak potential

    Personally I feel it's fine, maybe add 1-2 extra...but I don't really see any reason to drastically nerf/tweak them tbh.
  14. Shadowpikachu


    Fair enough then, resto kit based on cooldown is what i mean but a general few second medkit cooldown or even 1 second would do more then enough.

    Add more total if you want after that.
    • Up x 1