This thing is an absolute terror if you take the time to fully certify it. It goes from being mediocre in it's stock form compared to the CARV and Orion, to being a complete monster when you put an Advanced Forward Grip, Compensator, High Velocity Ammo and whatever sight you prefer. With the above attachments it has barely any recoil at any given range (within reason obviously) and can decimate enemies both close and far. I love this damn gun now. Don't hate on the SAW, it's a beast with certs.
I agree, but that's really a harsh thing to do to new players. I really wish they'd start new NC players with something else because it's a huge turn off for the faction in general when people get on, try the HA gun, and have that horrific first impression of trying to pin the tail on the purple and red donkey's during an earthquake.
It's my favorite gun but it was very frustrating at first until I upgraded it. I recomend playing other class until you have the certs to fully upgrade the SAW.
This. Make the SAW S the baseline HA gun for NC and have the SAW be buyable for the same amount as the other "slow, hard-hitting" LMG's for VS and TR. The SAW is far from a generalist weapon like the CARV and Orion are. The SAW S fits the generalist role nicely.
I can't imagine why people thought/think the SAW is a bad weapon, even in its stock form. Pre-nerf it was the most overpowered gun in the entire game, out-dpsing EVERY other LMG with its 1833 DPS while maintaining sniper level accuracy. It simply HAD to be nerfed Now it has a very average 1670 DPS and the sniper accuracy, plus all the buffs it's received in the last patch. There was never anything 'hard to use' about the SAW, nor anything wrong with its DPS. It still has one of the biggest effective ranges of any weapon, being from close range right up to the very edges of the feasible range of automatic weapons. If anything, the Orion and Carv are limited in their effective ranges compared to this weapon. It feels great to shoot and has never let me down at any range, and the 100 mag is just amazing to have.
They can start with another class (personally I went back to try stock engie gun and yuck..) OR really get used to the SAW, because once they do this, all heavy hitting weapons become extremely rewarding (i.e. one can be in denial of the nature of NC guns, or fully embrace it).
Why, let me explain then, all the reasons why Saw sucks: - It has extremely long reload time. In fact, it holds the record of having the longest reload time in the game, even longer than sniper rifles and rocket launchers. There are LMGs, also on NC side, that have same magazine capacity and reload twice as fast. - It has the biggest recoil of all the automatic weapons in the game, and the only weapon that even comes close to it... is the SAW S. - Its CoF when ADS moving is 20% worse than LMG average(even after the buff! And it was the only buff it received in the latest patch). - Its CoF bloom, both when ADSing and firing from the hip, is 40% worse than LMG average and 20% worse than NC LMG average. - Despite doing 200 damage per bullet, its DPS is nothing special, as you pointed out, because it has fire rate of only 500RPM. In fact, the unlockable alternative to Saw - the EM6 - will do more DPS despite individual bullets doing only 167 damage up close. Yes - you can put a Compensator and Advanced Forward Grip on it... but that only deals with recoil. You still have stupidly long reload time, you still have large CoF when moving/bloom penalties, and you're still not even doing the most DPS, despite the kick. So what is the point? Certs don't turn the Saw into a "beast", they turn a bad weapon into a mediocre one. Advanced Forward Grip, Compensator and a scope of your choice will cost you 330 certs. For 230 certs you can buy GD-22S and put a laser sight and a scope of your choice on it, and have a good CQB weapon that can also hold its own in midrange because it has low first shot multiplier unlike other CQB weapons(EM1 and Anchor). So the Saw is not even a budget option. It's true that Saw has sniper accuracy with the first shot - but so what? You want to limit yourself to single shot only pinking at far away enemies? Then you will certainly not be doing 200 damage per shot. At 85 meters or more, you will need six bullets(single shot bullets) to kill someone without Nanoweave. If he's got NV of 3 or more, then you need eight bullets. How long will that take? The guy will almost certainly break for cover after the third bullet, he's not going to just sit there and take it. Argument that Saw has sniper-like first shot accuracy is meaningless in practice. Plus it's not even that big of a bonus, really. All NC weapons have better first shot accuracy by default. The first shot accuracy(not counting pistols, shotguns, sniper rifles etc.) is pretty much universally 0.1 for both TR and VS. For almost all NC weapons, it's 0.03. So Saw, with it's first shot accuracy of 0, is really not that special for an NC weapon, and to even notice a difference between accuracy of 0 and 0.03 you'd probably have to use the biggest scope available.
Herp pretty much said everything I could have said, only with more numbers and statistics and less drunken rambling.
I hated the saw at first and quickly spend my first 100certs on the gd-22 which is easier to handle, certs well spend but after a while I got bored with the gun and started to play with the saw again. I purchased the compensator, grip (even though it doesn't really do much for the saw)and a 6x scope. The amount of havoc I cause with this gun at mid to long range is amazing, 3shot bursting people down while their carv doesn't even break my shield from that range. Even infiltrators have trouble with me while I keep shooting them in the head. I also purchased the high velocity ammo but it doesn't seem to do anything for me except increasing the recoil which makes the bursts harder to land. I really see myself as a heavy support rather than assault when I use my saw since I keep a relative safe distance and try to suppress enemy infantry so the others have an easier time assaulting into the base etc.
The idea of balance revolves around strengths and weaknesses, and you've conveniently ignored every single one of the SAW's strengths in order to prove that the SAW 'sucks'. Hell, with the way NC whiners talk about NC weapons, it makes me wonder if they're just a self fulfilling prophecy in their gameplay performance. "This weapon sucks, so I perform worse. I perform worse, so this weapon sucks." Here's a conveniently positive listing of the SAW's characteristics, matched for tone, for balance. - It has an extremely long time per drum. In fact, it holds the record of having the longest time per drum in the game, even longer than everything in the game. There are LMGs, on both the TR and VS side, that have the same drum size but less than half the time per drum. - It has the biggest damage of all the automatic weapons in the game, and the only weapon that even comes close to it is the Reaper DMR. - Its CoF when ADS stationary is 0.00. Granted that CoF moving is more valuable than CoF stationary. - Its magnitude CoF bloom is completely irrelevant because the whole influence of CoF bloom is its effect on sustained fire. The SAW has a bloom/min of 35, which is slightly below average (desirable). - Despite doing 200 damage per bullet, its DPS is nothing special, as you pointed out, because it has fire rate of only 500RPM. In fact, the unlockable alternative to Saw - the GD22s - will do less DPS despite individual bullets doing only 167 damage up close (The whole idea of being *average* is that it's in the middle, or in this game, not at a disadvantage when faced against other guns). Have a positive attitude towards your weapon, and play to its strengths rather than trying to compensate for its weaknesses. There are many other guns out there that are in much worse positions than the SAW, and the only reason why they don't receive much attention is because they're not used as often. This vicious cycle ensures that these guns will be last in line for their deserved tweaks. I've got a 31% accuracy with this weapon in ~200 kills, beaten only by my reaper DMR which has 32.5% in about the same number of kills. Approach it with an open mind, don't try to force it to be something it's not, and most importantly, have a positive attitude. Hell, I'm the last kind of person who should like this weapon. I prefer high RPM guns in most games, but I guess I'm a hipster gun user.
I have over 3k kills with the SAW and it is a beast when fully upgraded with a trueshot scope, but are you suggesting its awful RoF is an advantage or am I reading this incorrectly?
Saw is good, way better than people say. Seen people "Snipe" me with it and with heavy shield even out CQC with it. A lot of u kids are just bad and want easy mode. Crap does so much damage 1 hs is 400 damage and a shield/health is 500 hp each.. do the math. But really this screen shaking is the worst thing ever, guy spraying me from like 30m away with saw and I have the point right on him but his shots making my gun bounce and out of the 20bullets I had noting hit and I die.. Really.. so stupid.
The Saw is a great mid range LMG. Most people just don't realize how useful mid range LMGs are. They're a better choice than CQC LMGs for everything except fighting in small buildings. Also, mid range LMGs need attachments to work properly. Most of the downsides HerpTheDerp has listed aren't really downsides, just poor interpretation of stats. He talks about COF bloom being 40% worse. This is meaningless without a timeframe. Look at COF bloom per second and the Gauss Saw is completely in line with other LMGs. Similar story with the recoil. Slow reload? Reload times reflect the damage per magazine. The Gauss Saw has by far the highest damage per magazine of all infantry weapons. Low dps? More like average dps. At ranges where accuracy hardly matters (CQC) then it is somewhat disadvantaged. Most of the time, accuracy matters. The Gauss Saw has ADS COF of 0. It is more accurate than other LMGs when aiming and as consequence it will do more effective dps at range because the bullets will land closer to where you're actually aiming.
Yes, the awful ROF can be an advantage because of the accuracy corrections. It fires slower, more time for recoil correction to apply. Higher damage also means you fire less bullets that need to hit to kill someone, so firing slower gives you more time to adjust your aim. Certain people in this topic cannot understand the value of the Gauss SAW because they're too hung up on specific stats. The problem is that the gun actually performs differently from what they'd expect because the combination of those stats is hard to see without actual experience using the weapon. Looking at each stat, the Gauss SAW will seem worse than other guns because you are looking at each stat individually. However, the combined effect of having a low rate of fire, high standing accuracy, the highest bullet damage for LMGs, and next to no horizontal recoil is that the burst fire of this gun is EXTREMELY tight and accurate. This is the only LMG in the game that can fire a three round burst to the head and drop someone in less than a second from midrange. Weapons like the Orion and MSW-R can kill people in similar speeds, but only up close where they can spray their bullets and land all of them. The more bullets you need to kill someone, the worse your COF will become and the less likely all the bullets will hit. The Gauss SAW does not have this problem if you're a precise shooter, the bullets WILL hit their target and if your target was their head, the enemy is dead in an instant. Let's also not forget that its primarily designed for long range. Not only does it have a longer range on its damage falloff to minimum over other LMGs, it has the highest minimum damage period. In competing with the Flare and the TMG-50, the Gauss SAW will wreck them easily. At long ranges, single shot or burst fire is king, and as has been pointed out... the Gauss SAW is the best at both. The TMG-50 cannot compare in bullet damage or accuracy and its ROF is useless at those ranges. The Flare and other VS weapons suffer additional damage falloff at long distance, so even though they have accurate weapons with no bullet drop, they tickle at those distances. The Gauss SAW's minimum damage is what the maximum damage is for the TR/VS weapons, and it extends its damage falloff by 20 meters on top of being the most accurate first shot. Anyone who can't see this weapon as a long range dominator isn't trying to understand it. It's an accurate and high damage weapon for expert marksmen, as the whole NC faction tends to be. It crushes the competition at long ranges and can potentially have the fastest LMG kill time at short ranges if you go for headshots. Movement is obvious not an option with this weapon. Stand or crouch, aim for the head, and fire a burst or two. There has been topic after topic describing this weapon as a saint. It's the closest thing to an automatic sniper rifle a heavy can have, and like sniper rifles, the better YOU are at getting headshots, the better the gun becomes. Other faction weapons don't get such a luxury, the weapon stats limit your options. People who can't use the Gauss SAW to great effect are using it wrong and better off going for a TR-esque spray and pray weapon. The Gauss SAW isn't bad, it's risky. Missing a shot as TR is meaningless, you just shoot more bullets. Missing a shot with the Gauss SAW is tragic, so don't use it if you tend to miss a lot. It should only take 3-5 bullet bursts to kill someone with the SAW, it takes an Orion 7-10 and a CARV 10-15 purely because of the inaccuracy of fullauto spraying, necessary because of the lower bullet damage. http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/tips-for-gauss-saw.69863/ Exactly. This is why hands on experience trumps spreadsheets. Your math can be wrong if you fail to notice how the numbers interact with each other. In game experience can only be wrong if you're using the weapon improperly or lack the skill to use it.
Assuming both are calculated on per bullet bassis, which is almost certainly not true. Then why Anchor, which has same damage per magazine as the GD-22S, reloads faster? And Saw has bad accuracy. It also has significantly larger recoil, which is much more important than CoF bloom.
"And Saw has bad accuracy" You're joking right ? The saw has amazing accuracy, learn to control the gun before you say such nonsense.
It is important to note that the majority of infantry battles are fought in close combat. I believe the main reason people complain is because the other two factions get generally useful but close range focused LMGs. If we had an LMG that could stand up to the orion/carv and that was our standard LMG nobody would complain if the gauss saw was an unlock for more specialized fighting. As it stands our starter LMG is relatively speaking the most difficult LMG in the game to use for a situation that is the minority of fighting. It's not even so much better than the EM6 at long range that it's worth hampering yourself in close fighting.
What else is it based on? Potatoes? I'm going to blow your mind here: Total recoil of a T9-CARV in 4 shot burst: 0.4*2+0.4*3=3.6 Time required for the 4 shot burst: 0.24 sec Damage done: 572 Total recoil of Gauss Saw in a 3 shot burst: 0.55*1.65+0.55*2=2.915 Time required for the 3 shot burst: 0.24 sec Damage done: 600 Wait, what? How can the CARV do more damage per second than the Saw? And have less recoil too? The first shot is "free" damage not subject to rate of fire. The first shot also has a different recoil modifier. The CARV actually takes some time to surpass the Saw in dps but the Saw always has lower recoil over time. In other words: the CARV is a great for sustained dps in CQC, but the Saw kicks *** in mid range.
I love my SAW... I have the EM6 from alpha squad, but I don't kill any faster with it then I do with my SAW, and it goes through ammo much faster. Adv. Foregrip, compensator, reflex x2, done. HVA and x6 scope when I want to harass a base for hours from 200m away. Treat your SAW right and it'll be the all-purpose weapon of your dreams, capable of killing infantry at any range you like and even doing enough damage to make an ESF think twice. Plus, frankly, if you learn how to hit things with a SAW, you can probably use any other gun reasonably from then on. What is the bunny hill when you learned to ski on death mountain?
