Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Masyaka, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. Demigan

    How about a maintain-aim lock-on? Reduce the lock-on angle so that you actually need to aim for the aircraft rather than 'anywhere near is fine', reduce the time to acquire a lock, allow missiles that are already in the air to lock-on/relock, reduce the lock-on's maneuverability so it doesn't do three 360's in half a second
    With those changes, aircraft can dodge a lock with quick movement or high angular velocity compared to the lock-on user, lock-ons require skill to maintain, Lock-ons aren't fire-and forget, lock-ons can be fired before the lock for a surprise-attack, if a lock-on is shaken the player can re-lock on the same aircraft (or even switch) as long as the missile is in the air, things like tiny twigs and trees that block the lock-on for a tiny moment are still annoying but don't block the entire shot because the lock-on is re-acquired quickly if the player is skillful enough.

    Also, let's introduce new types of G2A missiles and weapons. How about a guided missile that when it comes within 1m of an aircraft detonates like flak? Normal flak has an 8m detonation range, so 1m is only 1/8th the current standard flak detonation range. That's a far enough detonation range to be effective and a short enough detonation range that a hit isn't guaranteed.
    Or how about a medium to high speed coyote-style missile? Get it close to the enemy aircraft and it auto-locks. If you once again introduce a lowered maneuverability and the missile can still miss the target even if it comes close enough to start chasing it, necessitating proper leading with the missile.

    Also in the vein of 'make sure some adequate G2A is available to starting players', increase the elevation range of HE and HEAT canons on all vehicles. That way you set HE and HEAT apart from the one-size-fits-all AP shells and the HE and HEAT canons can function as G2A fire that can't OHK an ESF (the Vanguard HEAT would need a weapon-specific damage reduction to prevent it from OHK'ing ESF). These guns would still be useful for engaging larger aircraft like Liberators and Galaxies, but to actually finish off an ESF you would need a ton of skill or a dumb ESF.
    • Up x 1
  2. TankHunterCobra

    Alright, enough with the G2A crap, we have enough of that in every combined arms game now, go look at Battlefield 4 and I'll tell you that's where this is headed.

    Lock-ons: Well, I find them annoying yes, OP, not sure, it just depends. TR usually spams HAs so it's hard to tell with independent fire, when on the chances I come across just 1 or 2 HAs shooting lockons, well, I well end up surviving by getting out if the area. My main concern for lockons is the ammo & range, a short range air defense system shouldnt be effective above 100-200m, of course they can still reach me when I am at the next hex point trying to repair, this is also a problem foelr anti air guns, I think the bullets need a fuse, where it is restricted of range because the flak detonates after a certain distance, and I find the overheat on AA weapons so long it's pointless, you could kill 5 liberators and that gun wouldn't overheat yet. The other thing is ammo, I don't understand how HAs can put off so many missiles at me, I haven't wasted certs myself into them, but jeez it seems like every time I come back from repairing or taking cover they still have a ton of missiles? I also think an "under the radar" thing needs to be put in, so that low flying aircraft are unable to be locked on to, this would make taking cover behind terrain easier, especially since missiles like to magically curve around mountains.

    Currently I have no real severe issue with AA, my only complaints are MBTs able to equip AA, its an MBT, if your tank formations want to be protected make someone pull a Skyguard, the best thing any realistic AA a tank has is a .50 cal, because sticking an AA gun on an MBT isn't a good idea, MBTs are designed to kill other vehicles, not anti everything, several real life attempts at putting AA cannons on MBTs have happened, all of which failed, stick with SPAA.
  3. Money

    stopped reading after i saw this

    • Up x 2
  4. Klabauter8

    Air is already nerfed more than enough. Especially without thermals it's really difficult to get any kills in ESFs, since armor takes ages to kill. Half of the ESF weapons are completely useless, and everything kills you in a second.

    Meanwhile as infantry you get tons of xp for simply standing around doing nothing and have a whole arsenal of different weapon choices.
  5. FateJH

    I threw down an Ammunition Package in the middle of nowhere and did not received any experience or gratitude for the gesture. I find I earn more experience when working among allies, which frequently involves moving around.

    (The aerial version of this is the Ammo Dispenser module and the Proximity Repair module on the Galaxy - no experience on your own, around other friendly Air forces performing attack runs it can be good sessile source of experience.)
  6. Demigan

    It doesn't matter how many times something has been nerfed or buffed. What matters is the current status of the game and how it can be improved. If the game had been released 1 month ago then the general consensus, just like now, would be "Aircraft are OP, there's not enough G2A available both overall and for starting players, the G2A that is available is terrible at it's job". And that needs fixing. I'm not saying that aircraft need to be screwed over because of this, just that the status quo is wrong no matter how you look at it.

    Without thermals it's still easy as **** to get kills in an ESF. If you couldn't without thermals, you never deserved any kill you made with that ESF.
    The "everything kills you in seconds" argument is a terrible one as well. All aircraft have the speed and acceleration to get out of any G2A fire before they die, the skill level required to pull it off is extremely low and more often than not you can survive 2 completely dedicated weapons even if you have the wrong loadout. In the meantime any vehicle or infantry caught by an aircraft with the wrong loadout is completely at the mercy of the aircraft.

    The whole arsenal of different weapon choices is also bullcrap. Most weapons are only slightly different versions of other weapons and all have basically the same function. In the meantime aircraft get multiple different guns that, compared to infantry weapons, are vastly different. Not to mention the million-and-one free perks that aircraft get. Things like better speed and maneuverability than anything else, weapons that are blatantly better than their ground counterparts, doubly as strong fire suppression and for the most used aircraft (5x more than all other aircraft put together, but proposing things to make other aircraft used more is "bad for the air-balance") they decided to give it an auto-granted afterburner, free level of nanite-repair when using an engineer and the ability to use two weapon systems without having to swap seats.
    • Up x 1
  7. Klabauter8

    Yea sure, that's also why your stats for Lightning and MBT are at least twice as good as for ESF...

    If you want easy kills, then you use tanks, not aicraft. You are the best example for this.

    Handling aircraft is already difficult enough. Instead of giving infantry lock-ons for free, they rather should make ESF lock-ons actually usefull.
  8. Klabauter8

    Not to mention that heavies would be even more OP compared to the other classes then.
  9. Demigan

    "at least twice as good as my tank stats"?
    So a KPH on 2 out of 3 weapons on par or higher than the KPH of my MBT weapons excepting my HE canon is, according to you, half of what I achieve with a Lightning or MBT?

    The only reason why my ESF stats are lower than some of the Lightning weapons is because I refuse to learn a completely ****** up A2A system that shouldn't exist in the first place. I can murder ground forces freely until an enemy Skyknight comes along.

    Handling aircraft isn't exactly rocketscience, especially when dealing with G2A lock-ons. Making ESF lock-ons better would only encourage gank squads, which is also something you don't want. Making lock-ons free would at the very least give the ground forces a chance to fight back, assuming they are in their 30% playtime where they pick an HA and nerf their AV capabilities by picking an G2A lock-on that is haphazard at the best of times.

    What the game needs isn't free lock-ons, although it would improve the game, what the game needs is viable, well balanced and skillful G2A weapons that are omniversally available. Just like AI weapons are available in any fight. Just like handling AV weapons is just par of the course for vehicles, so should aircraft have to deal with G2A fire. It's beyond ridiculous that aircraft players expect there to be fights with barely any or no G2A weapons, and that they expect ground forces to be completely incapable of defending themselves if they don't dedicate their loadout to G2A. That's like vehicles expecting there to be only one or two AV weapons at any fight, and then complaining when they meed 3 AV weapons.
  10. Demigan

    Not to mention that this is exactly why other classes need G2A weapons available as well. Isn't it strange that you think Heavies would be OP if they got a G2A launcher for free, but the fact that Heavies are the only infantry (excepting MAX's which are almost vehicles) that can sport G2A weapons at all is OK? This is all the more reason to start adding different G2A weapons to everything.
  11. TR5L4Y3R

    imo engineers should get turrets good against aa or have their current ones get a higher pitch ...
    i´m against buffing lock on dmg but i am for buffing its dumpfire dmg as i am for buffing ads projectilespeed on default launchers ...
    skyguard needs to be easier to hit with so maybe projectile speedbuff here too
    max burster idk slight rof buff?
    • Up x 1
  12. adamts01

    Every single rocket dumbfire launcher needs to 1-shot ESF. When I'm being stupid and survive a dumbire hit from a default launcher I just feel bad for the guy. I've gone so far as to send them a tell and giving them the kill in small fights because they deserve it. The CoF on flak weapons is horrendous, I'm all for tightening that up and upping velocity, but that would require lowering the burst range. I feel like the dps for those weapons is almost right, they just don't allow the shooters to get the hits they deserve. But that's leaning towards "skill-based" AA, which so many people disagree with.
    • Up x 1
  13. stalkish

    Tell me, what cant a rocket pod + default nosegun ESF engage effectively (as long as it can see it of course)? Cant think of anything huh?

    The level of hypocrisy in that post.......
    • Up x 1
  14. Klabauter8

    Yes really. Your score/min stat for ESF is merely 196, while for Lightning it is 272 and for MBT even 323. And your playtime in them is not that much different from each other.

    Yet you act as if ESF would be OP somehow, when in reality it is much easier to get kills and good scores with tanks.
  15. DeadlyOmen

    People that think flying is easy don't fly.
  16. TankHunterCobra

    What exactly are you getting at? The default nosegun is multipurpose with a slow time to kill tanks & the rocket pods are HE anti infantry weapons, you won't have time to smuther a tank with all of it since you'll get butt****ed by all the AA fire.
  17. Demigan

    TL: DR
    There's a million and one ways to create well-balanced G2A
    Nerfing weapons that reduce maneuverability and thus the ability to target enemies as well as pull out in time.
    Nerfing weapons that reduce vision of aircraft so they have trouble targeting or getting out of range.
    Nerfing weapons that leech or stop abilities from being used.
    Laser-guided ammunition.
    small-detonation range flak as opposed to the whopping 8m flak detonation we have now
    High-velocity ammunition
    Coyote-style ammunition
    Maintain-lock ammunition
    auto-canon style weapons (small magazines, designed to require skill to hit and having a chance to kill in one magazine but have long reloads to compensate)
    and any combination of the above.

    Long version:
    Current one's with a higher pitch doesn't do much does it? The damage on these turrets remains very bad against aircraft. Depending on the turrets having a full turning circle or not, the damage would be higher or lower. Even though the turret is a free weapon, it still makes you quite vulnerable because you are stuck in place and have to plan it more. As for the weapon, I would rather not have another spray&pray weapon. Make it fire a bunch of guided missiles or something, then recharge.

    I'm also against buffing the lock-on damage simply because the current lock-on mechanic doesn't leave room for balance. It's either OP because it kills too fast and doesn't leave room for the aircraft to counter it properly (without using bug like flying downwards the moment the lock-on fires) or it's UP because it does leave room for the aircraft to counter it, IE murder the lock-on user or just fly out of the area with ease.
    Better change lock-ons altogether. Don't make it so super-easy to lock-on, don't make it so easy to break a lock by having a single infantryguy or miniscule twig from a tree block the LOS for 0.0001 seconds, give the aircraft better ways to try and avoid damage while staying in the area without abusing bugs.
    Add new rocketlaunchers. For example a Rocketlauncher that has 4 or 5 rockets in a magazine and fires them at medium-high velocity with for example 0,5 seconds in between each shot. 3 or 4 hits=1 dead ESF. That gives enough time for ESF to react, since you need direct hits it still requires a lot of skill from the user and since you can't win with a lucky hit it's not too punishing for the ESF.
    Or a rocketlauncher with a laser-guided missile. Or for the Infiltrator an anti-vehicle EMP fired with something like an underbarrel launcher that reduces movement of the target vehicle and potentially leeches/temporarily locks up vehicle abilities, which is far more dangerous for aircraft as they are more likely to crash or in the case of ESF lose the ability to instantly escape situations with afterburner. Or a weapon that reduces vision of vehicles, again good against ESF so you can avoid them or make them crash but also good against ground vehicles that have more trouble doing OHK's. Or anti-material rifles. Weapons that use small flak ranges rather than the ridiculous 8m detonation range we have now etc etc etc.

    Damn why is it so hard for people on PS2 to understand how G2A could be soooo easily balanced properly? Not specifically aimed at you Trolslayer
  18. Demigan

    Maybe because I'm pretty damn good with vehicles and don't spend half the time I spend in an ESF on vehicles?
    If you want to have a good case, look at what the general populace can achieve with it. Ofcourse that's still heavily tainted because even though G2A farming is easy as ****, the average player will be getting creamed whenever an enemy ESF pops up due to the ridiculous skill curve for A2A combat. That heavily screws up any data you can gather, which should be obvious.
  19. stalkish

    Im getting at the fact that you ******* pilots are a bunch of entitled ***** tbqh.
    An ESF is anti everything, so is a lib, they have been since day 1.
    If aircraft get to be anti everything you can be dam well sure tanks can be aswel.

    Simple as that.
    Dont be an entitled biased ****, look at what youre saying before you press reply.
    • Up x 2
  20. TR5L4Y3R

    masamune is laserguided AND fires a number of missiles at imo fair speed though isn´t so easy to aim and still needs 2 bursts against an esf ..

    otherwise you have weapons for the LA with its default AA missiles and lock on version (yes weak i know)
    autocannon is already with the walker (though rotary still auto)

    primarily budget and teamsize ... on paper and mind everyone can fix everything .. that´s not how reality works ..