Flying has become pure garbage.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by TheChris, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. Demigan

    I have weeks and weeks of practice in FPS games. When I get into a fight with a player with mere days of practice I have a high chance to win, but it also depends on the situation. If he flanks me, he simply has a good chance to win because I can't out-DPS him.
    The same is true in the ground vehicle game. New players can fight against experienced players. The experienced players have better chance to win, but they definitely have no guarantee.

    Now what you are doing is saying "because someone has more practice he should automatically win in an equal scenario". Which is to say "new players will never really enjoy the game since they will always lose".
    Now many games have perfect ways to prevent this kind of thing with matchmaking. They make sure similarly skilled players are up against each other rather than pitting a high-skill player vs a low-skill player. Games that don't have matchmaking like that make sure that there's heavily noob-friendly weapons available that level the playing field between high-skill and low-skill players. These noob-friendly weapons often play an integral way in learning the first steps in the game until the player learns that with skill you can be better at other weapons.
    Why are these necessary? To keep a healthy player base. Players need to be able to enjoy the game. Only a small portion of the players is high-skill players, the largest portion of most games out there, including PS2, is average players that just want to join and blow stuff up.

    PS2 has no matchmaking. PS2 has some skill-leveling but not much, and the aircraft game has one noob-friendly weapon in the A2A missiles but it's detrimental to the player skill.

    Again, the game will improve by opening it up to a larger variation of skill and getting a larger part of the playersbase in aircraft.

    So rather than being a complete crapface and shoving my words aside with "it's garbage" and "you'll probably be garbage too" why don't you just uninstall the game and get the **** out of here? I'm done with morons like you insulting me and coming up with absolutely nothing as a counterargument except insulting me.
    • Up x 3
  2. Jamuro

    Deminan ... a2a esf pilots have been waiting for such changes since the launch ... the air community is a target for hate and sadly doesn't seem worth the development time to get any real changes

    (ffs we cried about lockons (and the complete uselessnes of flares) since the beta and all we got were tomcats and coyotes ... oh and ofc now even NC has a striker variation)
  3. MonnyMoony

    I tend to pull my AA max as a result of getting farmed by air - usually a Mustang AH equipped Reavers or lolpods.

    Don't want loads of AA ground units after you - don't farm's that simple.
    • Up x 2
  4. Demigan

    Let's not beat around the bush here: Both the ground side as well as the aircraft side has been toxic and heavily biased even since launch. I was on the 100% ground team in the beginning, wanting to straight up buff the Skyguard until it could annihilate aircraft without consequences. Although back then aircraft were so incredibly OP that it would probably would have been justified, it would not have been good for either the G2A game or the air game.

    We need to find a middle ground. Aircraft players hate the ground peasants, the ground players hate the skyknights. This isn't a good system for either team. You don't find such a system in the ground vs ground game anywhere, and the hate is all based on "Dude, this weapon has like 1% more kills than the counterparts on other factions". Which is just one of the many, many indications that there's something horribly wrong with the balance between G2A and A2G weapons.
  5. Ohaunlaim

    How about nerfing ESF weapon cones of fire? For example: lets look at how that would affect the nose guns...

    An increased COF would make them less effective at infantry sniping or otherwise being assured a kill if a pilot gets the cross hairs on-target. That is a slight nerf to elite players that would have to bring their aircraft in closer for a guaranteed kill. It wouldn't change too much when targeting larger vehicles though on the ground or in the air. For smaller vehicles, like other ESFs or a flash, it might slightly lower effective engagement ranges though.

    On the other hand, for up-and-coming pilots, they will likely get more kills or at least a couple of hits in against infantry units- making that aspect of flying less frustrating. This, because they don't have to be pin-point accurate any longer, which is difficult for new pilots. It also would aid new pilots when engaging, well, everything else too. They wouldn't be going on massive kill streaks, but they would be at least getting in a couple of hits at the least- even against top pilots. Given enough numbers lesser players may actually overwhelm the pilot-elite. Just like happens in infantry and ground vehicle play.

    This should mean less infantry dying (at least to nose guns) so less frustration there (then hopefully less infantry AA).
    Hopefully it also means less feelings of total uselessness for beginning pilots (and eventually more pilots in the sky).
    • Up x 1
  6. Silkensmooth

    This is supposed to be a team-based empire-based game.

    Would you attempt to take a base without bringing some medics to res people?

    Would you try to take a base without at least 1 sunderer?

    Why is it that no one thinks that air should be necessary?

    Now i hate ground pounders, and i wouldnt mind having ESF a2g removed altogether. But what happened to combined arms?

    Why do infantry need any weapons to fight air? Why dont they have to call in their air units to help with air units?

    Everyone acts like it is just one empire that has the ability to pull aircraft. They act as though they would just get farmed all day if they didnt have wtf uber swarm lock ons to DEFEND themselves.

    When i get killed by air, i pull an ESF and go kill them.

    What is needed is a way to find pilots to help you. A /who command like DAOC had. You could do /who hero, and it would give you a list of all the heros in the game.

    You could have a box that comes up, and you can look for any sort of people. Like you could check for people in tanks, or you could check for people in libs or ESF. Whatever you need to help you fight off whatever is killing you.

    So you are getting farmed by some lamer ground pounders, and you open the interface and you click the filter for ESF pilots, and you see ole Silky is in the sky, {thats me}, and you send me a tell. "Hey we got these lamer ground piunders over here at ceres hydro, can you come take em out?"


    In a real combat situation troops wouldnt rely on flak and lock ons, they would call for air support.

    As for the people who say for pilots to try flak, well i have all my toons listed, and if you care to check you will see that i spend a decent amount of time doing flak. Its boring because its too effective and too long range. If you are good at shooting ESF it is painfully easy to hit them with flak.

    The problem with flak is that it is so overpowered vs air that they stop coming around. There is really nothing else like it in the game. Then you sit there bored. I usually ditch my skyguard after i have driven off the enemy.

    Air has never farmed the ground like tanks do. Every single fight im at is surrounded by 20 tanks at least. All just sitting in a ring around a base farming infantry. It used to be that you could counter the tank zerg with libs or ESF but that is no longer the case and tanks farm with impunity.
  7. Silkensmooth

    I have almost 60 days in aircraft i know the difference between what my altimeter says and what my actual altitude above the ground is.

    I also think that heavies are using locks not to dfend themselves as there are almost never airplanes at any meaningful battles, but because of directives.

    Before directives and after strikers i never had to worry about locks unless i was actively trying to farm infantry. Now because of directives there are heavies who do nothing but sit in spawn room shooting locks at ESF to get air deterence ribbons and complete the objective.
  8. Silkensmooth

    Infantry dont typically die to noseguns, unless they are AI noseguns. They have already nerfed ESF noseguns repeatedly. They used to be able to 2 clip a sundy. They used to be deadly against infantry. They used to have no damage dropoff. Now you will likely die a horrible death before you manage to kill any but the worst players with a nosegun.

    One of the biggest problems imo is the thermals. Without thermals there would be tactics for dealing with enemy ESF trying to farm you. You would be able to sit still, hide in a dorrway or under a tree or inside a bush. With thermals all infantry are shiny lightbulbs in the dark.

    Except for trying to make cash selling weapons, i really dont understand the vehicle vs infantry dynamic in this game. Vehicles just farm infantry all day while often studiously avoiding one another.

    Another thing id be keen to see would be damage types. Any kind of anti vehicle weapons should do zero damage to infantry. And it makes perfect sense because AV rounds could be said to be made out of a type of energy that is very strong against nanites but is out of phase with ordinary matter and so affects it very minimally or not at all.

    The problem with this of course is that the flying C4 monkeys would have a field day, so we say that the C4 that they carry is affected by the AV rounds and so when hit the C4 monkey still blows up.

    Now we no longer have daltons farming infantry, or tanks sniping with ap rounds, or any of that. Conversely we make AP rounds do absolutely nothing to vehicles as the ppa no longer damages them and we have a system that encourages tanks to fight tanks and for farmers to have no defense against AV vehicles.

    I mainly play infantry these days, as flying has become pure rubbish and all the good pilots have quit, and i never find the vehicle farmers adding any kind of enjoyable dynamic to my infantry play.
  9. SarahM

    That's a good idea, but farmers would still be able to spam Q and fire at the doritos.
  10. Silkensmooth

    Yeah but you cant really spam Q as it sets a timer. You used to be able to spam Q but they nerfed it.
  11. Silkensmooth

    Sorry when i say AP rounds i mean anti personal, when really AP stands for armor piercing. I mean AI rounds when i said AP.
  12. Silkensmooth

    Actually i think my changes to the damage types, making ap rounds useless against infantry would actually make Daybreak money as all the farmers who snipe with AP would be forced to buy AI guns if they dont already have them.
  13. Sebastien

    It would make HA incredibly strong AV wise.
  14. CNR4806

    While I don't fly, the biggest problem I see in the ESF scene is the reverse maneuver.

    I'm not saying that it should be removed (though that's definitely one way of improving the air game), but it is about god damn time that the devs actually work to make it an integral part of the air game, instead of just saying "yeah this is totally part of the air game now" and leaving it as a glitch.

    Instead of having to trick the game into thrust vectoring for you, the game should allow players to manually manipulate thruster direction, for example a button toggle that switches between hover and forward. (And perhaps more advanced controls, but I'm not putting my hopes high on that)

    This should be, at least in theory, beneficial to any ESF pilot. The newbies will no longer have to learn how to correctly RM on top of learning the glitch that lets them RM to begin with. Veteran pilots will simply have less workload when they attempt an RM.
    • Up x 3
  15. Zombo

    what do you expect? just being able to mindlessly farm infantry in huge battles? lol
    check your privilege
    • Up x 2
  16. Zombo

    the reverse maneuver is fun to use, but really hurts the air game, it's even complete nonsense regarding physics (at least how people are using it)

    while thrusting side-to-side in your normal hoverfight, or putting your plane basically nose-up and thrusting yourself backwards, what is holding you in the air?

    in PS2 it's basically "you need to have this much speed to not fall like a stone to the ground", but with planes it doesnt work in all directions, you actually have to fly forwards for it to work

    it's like throwing a paper-plane backwards and expecting it to just fly like normal, only backwards
  17. Demigan

    My solution was the ESF omni-directional afterburner. This doesn't just make RM easier to use and useable in multiple directions, it also means that the amount of aircraft maneuverability is increased, and aircraft maneuvers like trying to dodge, weave, barrel-roll, sudden brakes/flying backwards would actually be possible and useful, rather than just making you an easier target.
  18. Devilllike

    If there is one thing i dislike in planetside its the ability of the flyers with their vanu unlimited blasting guns that can camp entire squads from far away and the one hit kill shotguns on the nc planes.So i am happy we at least have the ability to defend our selves and i feel no regret taking down any plane that i see.

    So pick your fights wisely or quit
    • Up x 2
  19. Jamuro

    Well the airgame doesn't only revolve around a2g bashing ... or at least it shouldn't

    Sadly tough while a starting pilot will be able to groundpound like a pro within a week or so ... standing your ground in a2a fights is something that takes a good while longer to learn and master.

    This as a mostly a2a focused pilot makes me worried ... ofc most of the pilots will either stop trying and focus on what gives em certs (usually lolpoding) or in many cases even quit.
    If we had an easier way to progress as pilots to a2a fighting ... then the whole a2g thing would become a lot less of an issue ... i hope.

    In a perfect game i would even hope/wish for a different modell ... clear visual indicator to others that the esf above you is in an a2a setup ... one of the worst parts of a2a as esf is the fact how vulnerable it makes you to flak and g2a in general.

    You have to stay on your opponent, while juggling incoming lockons and flak ... sometimes even from all participants (NConNC flak best flak) and usually don't have the luxury of picking cover or an isolated spot to engage.

    Also liberators take way to long to take down currently ... even worse they have almost the same topspeed as a reaver for example.
    Add to that the rather long range of walkers and the good old dalton and you have one hell of a mix.
    (certainly possible to take down ... but the time to kill vs the risk of dieing to a single dalton shell make them something many pilots shy away from)

    So at one hand people hate getting groundfarmed ... on the other hand i see none of the guys complaining here ... asking for better a2a mechanics, weapons, tools.
    I am not saying that air should be the main counter to air, BUT it certainly could do with some improvements and would probably help with the a2g issues a lot more than a buffed skyguard or whatever.
  20. Imp C Bravo

    Well, most of the OPs op was ranting out of frustration. But the mention of self repairing turrets and render issues he makes are fair calls.

    Everything else was biased anger thou...