Fix the Railjack now!

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Vanon, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. Mathgeekjoe

    NC ESRL doesn't need line of sight on target, new striker needs a lot of time in line of sight, if you thought the phoenix was sniper food, try the striker :D.
    Oh cry cry, NC got the best sniper for moving targets and its cost is that you can't use the other snipers once the delay is mastered. So your opportunity cost is (going to another faction and losing ability to use anything other than rail jack). Other than that and the petty mag and reload differences, what reason do you have to go back to the other snipers when you master the rail jack. And if the delay is too much of an opportunity cost for you, you don't have to get it, just because its opportunity cost is too high for you doesn't mean the aren't going to be any NC mastering the (best sniper for moving targets).

    Just asking how would you feel if you got a scout rifle labeled as sniper rifle. How does getting a new scout rifle compare to getting the overspecialized rail jack or an unlimited ammo VS sniper. The NC have a whole stockpile of weapons that do more damage per bullet, faster reload, bigger magazine, faster rate of fire, than the TR ESSR. Our TR sniper rifle is nothing more than the weakest scout rifle, given a high velocity of 600, and a accuracy of a sniper rifle. There is no reason to use the TRAP.

    At least with the Striker you can move side to side (still no match for my AP Vanguard)... Phoenix you are left standing in the middle of no where and are a free kill. Also Phoenix can be shot down with a BLOODY PISTOL while also having less range.

    I would rather prefer one of the other factions rifles instead. VS one I could use and would use all the time, the TR one is deadly in Biolabs and small bases.
  3. Mathgeekjoe

    TR sniper isn't any better than the other close range snipers or scout rifles. If you want a infiltrator weapons for medium combat you could use the AF-6 Shadow for higher damage, faster rate of fire, bigger magazine, faster reload, better hip fire. You already have a scout rifle (it has the same stats across factions) that is better than the TRAP in everything but muzzle velocity and accuracy aiming down sights. If you want the TRAP take it, it is worse than the scout rifle. I even tested the TRAP damage type, it isn't even considered a sniper rifle.

    If you are standing in the middle of nowhere with the Phoenix, you should get shot. I see most Phoenix NC shoot from the inside of the spawn room. And while your Phoenix makes you a sitting duck, you have to keep in mind it doesn't say where you are. TR striker rounds point exactly to the person shooting them. If you think the striker is so good then go buy the ground lock rocket launcher, does the same damage over time as the striker and doesn't end up being a sitting duck for most of the time.
  4. Vaphell

    let's change few words here and there....

    NC sniper isn't any better than the other long range snipers. You could use the Longshot for faster rate of fire, bigger magazine, faster reload. You already have sniper rifles (they have the same stats across factions) that are better than the Railjack in everything but muzzle velocity. If you want the Railjack take it, it is worse than the tier3 sniper rifle.

    do you get it now?
    Railjack has no niche in the game. The only scenario it would shine in lies beyond the rendering range, within the rendering range it's strictly inferior to tier3 that covers 0-300m just fine, with 10x the flexibility at closer ranges and with no neon arrow hanging in the air.

    you should be happy, because if what you say is true you can scratch ESFs with it. For whatever reason vehicles that can be damaged by small arms have the highest resist against sniper rifles.
  5. Mathgeekjoe

    Apparently you don't understand that reload, magazine size, rate of fire, matter more in close combat than at distance. Stuck in a reload in CQC your dead, stuck in a reload at long range and you have a cloak your fine. Faster rate of fire matters more in CQC, if you have a lower rate of fire in CQC you lose more shoot outs, at range the rate of fire doesn't matter as much as having your shots hit.

    I really think you don't understand what 850 meters per second means. It isn't there to out pace a long shot bullet. It is there so when you pull the trigger you can follow the target for the 0.2 seconds and have the fasters projectile in the game making hitting moving target easy.

    Here is wrel's video on the Rail jack.

    I am fully aware that for some weird reason sniper rifles are worst than pistols when it comes to shooting ESF. What I think you don't understand is that sniper rifles damage type do more damage to Max's and Harassers than small arms fire. I personally find being able to damage max more important than shooting ESF.

    If you don't believe me, go take the semi auto sniper in VR and go to a max and shoot it in the head 10 times or in the body 20 times. Look at the damage, 20 body shots do 400 times 20 damage or 8000. Now go take any small arms fire and try the same thing. It will take 10000 small arms damage to kill a max.
  6. Baccano

    Ok Mathgeekjoe since your clearly not into reading entire threads and other postings on the weapon let me get you a real copy and pasted REVIEW

    (not the Wrel's First impression of a non-sniper version. If you want I'll copy and paste my responses to the last non-snipers that tout this as "proof" that the Railjack is worth getting)

    Chart showing problems of bullet time on target due to the .2 sec delay this rifle has before firing compared to the other Bolt Action Rifles:

    This is the Write up I did for someone on the forums (The main point being that due to the .2 sec firing delay this rifle is not competitive with the other 1000 cert offerings found in the LA-80 or LongShot)

    Somethings to remember about the RailJack:

    Chamber time: 1.0 sec
    Reload Long / Short: 5.1 sec / 4.1 sec
    DMG model: 750 @ 10m 450 @ 400m
    Bullet Velocity: 850m/s

    Must wait .2 sec delay after pulling the trigger as the rifle charges before the bullet leaves the barrel.

    Some people have said that the .2 sec delay allows you to correct your shot.

    If you do that's cool but if your pulling your trigger while not properly leading or on the target and then having to correct in .2 sec, that's a self aiming problem. Good snipers don't really have a problem of pulling the trigger before they are ready to place an accurate bullet down range. And don't say but if they move at the last second I can correct because that arguement extends to omg they moved .2 sec after I pulled the Railjack trigger causing the exact same situation.

    Also for people saying the RailJack's bullet gets to it's target crazy fast (Once it leaves the barrel). Not a disparagement on the comment just a disagreement.

    The numbers assuming both bullets leave the barrel at the same time:

    Range_____Longshot 650m/s________________RailJack 850m/s_________Difference in time

    50m_________ .07 sec _______________________ .05 sec _________________ .02 sec

    100m________ .15 sec _______________________ .11 sec _________________ .04 sec

    150m________ .23 sec _______________________ .17 sec _________________ .06 sec

    200m________ .30 sec _______________________ .23 sec _________________ .07 sec

    250m________ .38 sec _______________________ .29 sec _________________ .09 sec

    300m________ .46 sec _______________________ .35 sec _________________ .11 sec

    So what can we infer from this chart?

    That even if the RailJack had No Trigger Delay.... (not advocating this because I would prefer some other cool feature or reason to use, not just tier 4 rifle. Maybe faster chamber time or more ammo capacity or faster ads to make up for .2 sec uncloaked ADS time)

    .... there is no way you are hitting your target with the RailJack that you would not have also hit your target with the Longshot after seeing the difference in time. Willing to make the hypothetical at the 300m mark only if your aim was only just barely going to hit your target then "MAYBE" the Railjack would do it in that slight, singular scenario.

    As for the Click and Drag argument it's just a reverse of what you do with every other weapon eg. With the Longshot you Drag and then Click.

    The added bonus here is I can do my dragging time while cloaked, pop my cloak just long enough to click, and then cloak back up thus making the shot seem to come from nowhere. I can also decide that if my target starts to act erratically not to take the shot instead of being committed and then not being able to take my target down; thus possibly compromising my position on a shot that became not worth it to take. Something that separates advanced snipers from the average joe standing on a rock, tunnel visioned down his scope.

    Now as for the "really hitting hard" part I guess really hitting hard in this case means 50 more dmg than a rifle that already does 700 dmg so....50 / 700 = .07 or 7% more dmg. So I guess in the rare instance your target got away with 7% health left yeah the RailJack would have gotten you the kill. Hmmm does that happen often?

    Someone also mentioned the Drop Factor. The RailJack has faster bullet velocity so it must have less of a drop rate. Well yes except the drop rate doesn't significantly differ from the Longshot (significant in this context means have to adjust by at least half a mildot while using the 74 degree FoV).

    Now where this becomes interesting is when you realize that the Longshot has no noticeable drop out to the 225m mark and only drops to the first mil dot at the 300m mark. So if you are having problems in this 75m range with judging drop that only has to be measured by one mildot I don't think you're going to see the difference.

    My opinion about the RailJack is: it can get kills, it's a cool looking weapon model, and heck it even has a cute reload animation.

    Ok now that the cold hard numbers and personal opinions are out of the way....

    Let's help the everyone out by answering the main question " there any reason for me to use this over the Longshot other then conserving certs/money?"

    Answer is No! Until someone can show other numbers and or a situation where you can prove that the RailJack is superior enough to warrant the: Extra Chamber Time, .2 sec Unlcoaked ADS, Less Ammo Carrying Capacity the answer will remain:

    No the RailJack is not worth the 1000 cert price tag over the other 1000 cert price tag Longshot or LA-80 (and is only marginally better in 2 slight areas than the default Bolt Driver)

    Hope this helps you Mathgeekjoe to stop and think a little more logically about the weapon choices your trying to convince others about.

    - SideWinder
  7. Baccano

    Edit Chamber time for Railjack is 2 seconds
  8. Vaphell

    Because all battles play out in totally fixed locations where you can sit at 290m for hours. The Longshot which i previously considered a bit too slow, too long rangish gives you incredible flexibility when compared to the Railjack. It instagibs in CQC, allows players with fast reflexes to capitalize on very narrow windows of opportunity to a much greater degree than the Railjack ever will and it owns hard near the render distance.

    I understand it well, but i consider it nothing more than a lipstick on a pig.

    I don't care. Wrel is not the authority on sniping.
    This weapon is not in a vacuum and comes with a huge opportunity cost you completely ignore. If you know BASRs, this weapon is completely detrimental to your general sniping skills, directly compatible with 4 weapons.

    I'll quote a guy who has extensive experience with Railjack (previous page of this very thread)

    I got used to the RailJack. I'm over 3,000 kills as of a few days ago. The only thing I dislike about the gun is the simple fact that my sniping skills on ALL other BASR's has been negated. When I pull out the Long Shot or switch to another faction, I find the gun seems to fire before I even press the button. The shot delay, when one gets used to it, is compensated for via neural mechanic that is actually well defined. Meaning there is no delay anymore. However, this compensation goes both ways, hence why I feel the other BASR fire before I tell it to. All in all, I cannot switch factions or weapons any longer, however I now have an edge over those few snipers with skill enough to come close to besting me. This leads to an issue though, because I am now so specialized on this one weapon that if they change it, I doubt I'd be spending the time to relearn something over again. These kind of things need to be well defined before forced beta testing on the player-base in the name of making 7$ on another weapon. I understand the PS2 Dev team is probably not responsible, the money making decisions usually come from the people that lack the passion to develop a game like this. So after all that, I'd still opt for removing shot delay just so the next guy is not thrown in a tunnel like me.
  9. Mathgeekjoe

    Range_____SAS-R 500m/s______Bolt Driver 550m/s_____LA80 600m/s_____Longshot 650m/s____Rail jack 850m/s

    50m_______0.10000 sec________0.09091 sec__________0.08333 sec______0.07692 sec_______0.05882 sec

    100m______0.20000 sec________0.18182 sec__________0.16666 sec______0.15385 sec_______0.11765 sec

    150m______0.30000 sec________0.27273 sec__________0.25000 sec______0.23077 sec_______0.17647 sec

    200m______0.40000 sec________0.36364 sec__________0.33333 sec______0.30769 sec_______0.23529 sec

    250m______0.50000 sec________0.45455 sec__________0.41667 sec______0.38462 sec_______0.29411 sec

    300m______0.60000 sec________0.54545 sec__________0.50000 sec______0.46154 sec_______0.35294 sec

    Now if you compare those values you will find the difference between the Longshot and the Rail jack is greater than the difference between the bolt driver and the Longshot. If the Longshot is better at hitting moving targets than the bolt driver then the Rail jack is most certainly better at hitting moving targets than the Longshot.

    If you considered bullet drop you would find the rail jack has about 41.5% less bullet drop than the longshot. Calculation is the velocity of the longshot divided by the velocity of the Rail jack, you square the answer, this would give you the bullet drop of the rail jack compared to the Longshot. To find how much less just take one minus that answer and that will give 0.415 or 41.5%


    The point of the .2 second delay is the only real reason why some snipers won't use it. If you can follow the target for 0.2 seconds then you don't have to deal with as much lead and bullet drop. Some people will find it a fair compromise, other will not. If you don't find the 0.2 seconds fair then don't use it. If you like the 0.2 seconds wait for the 23.5% less lead and 41.5 percent less drop, then the Rail jack is for you. Just because the 0.2 second delay doesn't seem reasonable to you doesn't mean it is not reasonable to your teammate.
    • Up x 1
  10. Vaphell

    Sigh. Btw, if you want to use monospace font and preserve formatting, use [ code ] tags - [{}#] icon on the toolbar.


    So where did you say anything about the fact guys within the 130m are dead even before you actually fire RJ and about absolutely huge opportunity cost of unlearning 4 BASRs for RJ? Nowhere.
    Whatever perceived gains you have with RJ, they come at the expense of much greater number of all the missed opportunities that would be trivial to exploit with other rifles, period.

    Railjack. makes. you. a. worse. less. flexible. infiltrator.
    • Up x 1
  11. iller

    No one's saying that. What most are saying is that the Railjack is as bad as the Phaseshift, which is worse than the Bolt Driver.

    They're also saying that the Velocity taken with the Delay mechanic is 1 step forward and 2 steps back at the same time for the exact number you just quoted: 290m's. Adjusting the crosshairs slightly within the last 10ms of the 200ms delay is also awkward and causing people to learn a BAD HABIT which doesn't even work at really long ranges where the finesse needed against a moving target is more of a lottery ticket. For it to capitalize on it's own physics, and have the bullet do something .... ANYTHING that counts as an advantage in its intended sniping range, we'd need a 12x scope or maybe even a 15x that doesn't continue to bob-around while we're holding our breath. Not only that but it would need less drop than the Longshot (currently they're the same which defies physics).

    IOW: for it to gain a real advantage for it's built-in physics
    it would need it's own server-regulated Render distance allowing us to shoot at stuff so far away that the bullet would have to watch a loading screen. (okay that's hyperbole, but it still makes more sense than this Delay mechanic does)
  12. Zagareth

    just to make a very, very... very relevant input here:

    NC snipers are what they are: rotten meat on the battlefield! So who cares if they got a functional weapon :p - or do you think the dead body looks better with a Railjack in the hands? :D
  13. Mathgeekjoe

  14. xXepicnesXx

    The Rail Jack is not overpowered nor underpowered I think that the Rail Jack has plenty of potential, and I think that SOE actually hit the nail right on the head for once, after a little bit of experimentation, the two second delay is helpful when you have run out of breath and cannot steady the sights anymore. you just have to pass over the enemy's head before the shot actually fires.
    Now this feature can be easily negated on a fast moving target. you have to compensate for everything of the target is running across your line of sight. additionally there is little to no bullet drop before 300 meters. I think that the Rail Jack is a great gun and has a few okay downsize like mag size and for some people the firing delay.
  15. iller

    are you sure you even used this gun???

    If you didn't actually purchase it for an NC alt... then don't post anything implying you did plz
    (& Trialing doesn't count unless you did it like 10 times or have over 200 kills + Character URL link)
  16. Mathgeekjoe

    I am pretty sure he meant 0.2 second delay. Typo.
  17. gregfox89

    The thing has ridiculous velocity and no drop. Without the delay it would be really OP. It is already really good, I get killed by it a lot.
  18. lilleAllan

    It's the worst sniper rifle that I have used,

    Firing delay, small clip, LOLTASTIC chamber time = get the tier 3 rifle instead.
  19. andy_m

    ball c0cks to that...

    I'm sticking with my Railjack until I have the Auraxium medal (not far to go). But I'm a little bit worried about getting back into my Longshot. I also intend dusting off my SAS-R too, for close-up work. Sounds like I'll be doing a little bit of re-learning... ...
  20. xXepicnesXx

    thank you mathgeekjoe and there are a few other typos sorry