Fix the Railjack now!

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Vanon, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. skifton


    My reply would be pretty much this:



    Surprising that Wrel tends to agree with my sentiments that it's not a terrible gun. People are just SO ready to jump on the devs for anything, it's always bothered me.

    That said, I still like the RailJack. It's a fun gun with an interesting/weird mechanic and gives me something to get used to. It's situational to the extreme but that doesn't mean one can't enjoy it and be effective with it.

    To each their own, but people need to hop off the "underpowered" bandwagon and see a weapon for what it is. 90% of the whiners (yep, whiners) complaining about the RailJack have used it less than I have. (BTW for those *still* keeping track, i've got around 100 rounds through it in different (generally long-range) scenarios. Leading targets isn't really a problem at this point for me. If you have a problem with that then I suggest you refer to the video I posted by Wrel talking about why leading targets isn't a problem for me.
  2. skifton


    1) Bought the gun, my opinion is still exactly the same as before.
    2) See above
    3) See above
    4) See above
    5) My thoughts remain the same on the RailJack.
    6) I shot someone from about 400 meters today, engineer on a turret (vehicle, i know)...he jumped off and I could see him running around near his turret. So render range is not necessarily always 300m. I took the shot then wanted to see how far it was, and put a personal waypoint down, it was over 400m (even after the engy jumped off his turret).
    7) Max OHK distance is at LEAST 300m. In the VR infantry seem to un-render at 301m. I've seen them render out to about 314m before though. I tested both the Longshot and the Railjack out to 300m exactly and they both got headshot OHKs from that distance.
    8) I'm owning and backing up what i've said...thats why I let you complainers know I bought the weapon and have used it. Still am using it. Still like it.

    9) Here's a video where I prove that the RailJack (and Longshot, for that matter) headshot out to 300m (and the railjack, I'm sure, farther out than that) :


    10) Here's a video where Wrel basically agrees with me that it's not necessarily a bad gun:


    11) Everyone's got their own opinion, that's fine. But people have condemned a weapon that just came out (so very few have used it extensively, including myself), and that bothers me; because it's not an awful weapon.
  3. Baccano


    Um Skifton you quoted from Wrel's post:

    Railjack Impressions from a non-sniper.

    From a Non-Sniper.......

    And watching the video they are his impression which is fine but that's all it is. His feelings when he tried it. Not a Review and no scenario comparisons against other offerings like he usually does. These are the reasons I like watching Wrel's Review videos.

    While Wrel claims that once he got used to the delay he felt he was doing well with it (to include using the delay as a correction time) he did say that you're probably not going to win any sniper duels with it. But to be honest as long as you properly lead in the first place and have good target prediction you don't need to correct your lead after you've made a mistake when pulling the trigger. I do recognize that there might be a scenario where if your target zigzags and you correct you'll get the kill but, your real danger is never the guy out in the open that you're shooting at it's the enemy snipers (and the occasional flanker engaging from 10m)

    No one is saying it's doesn't get kills. No one's saying you can't "Have Fun" with it. What I am saying however is that it is a less effective choice if you want to kill your target sooner than is possible with the Railjack, Win a sniper duel, and don't want to have to get used to a weapon mechanic that is not transferable to any other weapon in your empire.

    I'm glad you're having fun, stick with it then and you can be effective as long as there isn't another sniper on the field with any other bolt action that knows you're there. If I catch anyone with a RailJack there is no chance in hell of them beating me in a sniper duel.

    However if someone asks me what's the best tool for the job when it comes to Bolt-Action weapons the RailJack will get an honorary mention only because it looks cool and you can always kill clueless noobs regardless of weapon but that's about it.

    I don't hate the RailJack I think it's just a meh weapon.

    - SideWinder
  4. skifton


    Right. I'm also a "non-sniper" (depending on your definition)...that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on one.

    And lets face it, Wrel's pretty good at most aspects of the game. He's being modest when he says he's "terrible at sniping"...because he does pretty well even in the vid.

    I can honestly say that I think it's a great counter-sniping weapon. I've used it as such already and it works great. However, again, personal opinion. They always seem to clash on the forums.

    I'm just tired of people calling things "broken" a day after they come out. And then calling out people who say "hey now it's probably not all that bad" by saying 'oh well you haven't even used it!' ....well neither has anyone, really.

    Anyway, enough of all this. People should give it more of a chance...but at the same time, if the devs come up with something that makes everybody happy....all the more power to it.
  5. Vaphell

    no, it's simply impossible for it to be a great countersniping weapon, i've done my fair share of countersniping and it's the last sniper rifle i'd consider for the job. LS >> FJ.
    At 100m you are at a severe disadvantage because other bolt actions land the bullet on your head even before you send your own and even at 300m the time penalty is still there.
    Being stationary for 0.2s longer than necessary is a generous gift to the enemy. Snipers worth their salt shoot and strafe asap to avoid countersniper fire at the last known position and this evasive maneuver is impossible with FJ. What about the swag tracer that draws way too much attention and makes you deal with much more countersniper fire in the first place?
  6. Baccano


    I never said you can't have an opinion, just that when it comes to giving that opinion give people that facts up front saying "I'm not an infil main nor do I snipe much but I feel this way about this rifle." Much like Wrel did.

    Wrel is a pretty good player and puts up some nice Review Vids, although there was nothing in that vid that jumped out at me as particularly exceptional sniper play. Most of the time he only had about two or three people and one time about half a squad worth of people to shoot at at any given moment, one flanker at the start (which I usually try to snap a hip fire from my rifle and then finish with pistol a move that will get you killed with the Railjack), and if you watch closely he aquired targets many times without being cloaked so if any enemy sniper had been looking in his general direction he would have been counter sniped. So he is correct when he says he is a non-sniper although, it's prolly more accurate to say he has not practiced being a sniper in PS2.

    I also agree with you when you say the only people who should be giving advice are people that have used this rifle extensively as well. As of this writing I have 665 kills about the halfway mark to the Rax medal of 1160kills. Because of this I feel justified in my opinion of the rifle not just as someone who has 82% playtime as Infil with over 49 days played in the class. I also feel like people can trust my stance because most of my kills (over 6k between the Longshot and SAS-R alone) come from sniper rifles over say an infil that primarily plays with smg or scout rifles.

    And if you're serious about experiencing all the aspects of the Infil class I highly recommend that you Rax every weapon to get a good feel on them which means the Railjack also. My comments are mostly for people who want to know if the rifle is worth getting. My current stance is if you want a rifle with a faster velocity and flatter bullet trajectory over the default you are better off spending certs for the LA-80 or Longshot. The Tier 2 and 3 rifles are better at those qualities without having to learn a brand new weapon mechanic.

    It could end up being like Wrel said where if you're an average sniper this weapon might help you out if you have trouble with your aim by giving you a lag time to adjust if necessary but, people who want to become an advanced sniper the other rifles will perform the job better.

    - SideWinder
  7. Tenebrae Aeterna

    Keep in mind that he was emphasizing the fact that he's not a good sniper to highlight his success with the rifle in the short amount of time he's used it. Basically, what he's saying (if I understand correctly) is that he's not a great sniper with the other rifles...but the Railjack is actually providing him with much better results and he believes that it's due to the delay of the weapon letting him compensate. So, he's forming the conclusion that the delay might actually help people out once they learn to adjust to it and that the hatred for the weapon is simply a product of how strange the delay initially feels.

    If he's correct, it's worth taking his words into the game itself and trying your luck again with them in mind. You might come to a different conclusion than you had before when you keep those words in the back of your head, you might actually start compensating after you try working the weapon in a slightly different way.

    This is basically what he was getting at, he wants people to beat the hell out of the weapon with an open mind and see if they can't compensate for the delay and actually turn it into an advantage like he believes he has, an opinion he's obtained by the fact that he's doing better with the railjack than other rifles.
  8. Nephi1im


    As some have said, 200ms (or around that) is not enough time for humans to react. Sure, you can argue that a shot you might have missed with instant click was a hit because there was a delay. I think anyone would be hard pressed to show that this equates to a perceptible advantage though. If anything, you luckily get some shots you would have otherwise missed, at the cost of being exposed for longer, having more travel time, less bullets, slower rechamber etc.

    I've used the thing pretty extensively at this point, and, worth noting, I haven't used any "normal" sniper during that time to throw off the "laerning the delay". It still causes a significant number of missed shots because the delay is A) too short to reliably learn B) has no sound or visual indicators. SOOOOOOO many times you click and move only to realize you fired 10 meters to the left of your target, due to said move. It is counter intuitive, and judging by the cost of "oops I have some more aim time", as it sits, this thing will go in the dustbin for anyone who wants a better sniping experience.
  9. Tenebrae Aeterna

    Hmm...

    So, do you believe that a longer delay would actually make the mechanic better? The weapon definitely needs a better sound signature for the charge and actual firing of the weapon itself...I'm sure that alone would help a lot with the weapon. Granted, I have absolutely no live experience...I'm simply working off what I'm reading, watching and theory crafting myself.

    If I had the money to waste, I'd be out there testing it for hours on end...I lack a life. :(
  10. Nephi1im


    I would say the delay isn't really a mechanic, but a bandaid they used for fear of it being too good. Really, if they are unwilling to ditch the delay all together, I think it's back to the drawing board with the gun. Adding more delay would mean more exposure time, and it would also be SUPER lazy to make like a half phaseshift that has bullet drop and ammo.

    Personally, I never though the final PTS version was particularly close to OP (AKA exactly the same, sans delay). You can say it is cheap, cheese, sniping on training wheels, etc. but I sincerely doubt it would have made for more sniping than is currently in game.

    Live experience is a big part of this gun as well. It feels WHOLLY awkward and frustrating. I've learned it, and I still feel 9 times out of 10 that it just is unsatisfying. The mechanic of the phaseshift is one thing. It feels like it was made into the gun, and having sniped a whole bunch in many games, it doesn't feel terrible. The railjack is the opposite.
    • Up x 1
  11. Baccano


    I felt he was just showing generic gunplay which is why I mentioned that at most of his fights I only noticed a few active targets per scene like he put himself in a defense in a 1-12 fight (with only about 6 people) and the one fight where it looked like the enemy might be over 12 was severely camped in by the friendly forces from the outside. Not exactly a video to show the paces of the weapon but, Wrel only said they were initial impressions and that's exactly what was shown. I would love to see his scenario comparisons and sidegrade comparisons once he gets the chance.

    I also mentioned that Wrel might be right in that the weapon might be a choice if you're just an average joe sniper. Like if you just happen to want to use something while waiting for a foot zerg to make it into your carbine / AR / lmg range. You could whip it out learn a new mechanic and then get kills if you have a little trouble aiming.

    I've been posting my opinion in the Infil forums though not the general game play forums and people who have asked me about it in game and when I discuss it with my outfit have all been from infils or other snipers. From that perspective the RailJack does not serve a role that is not out performed by any of the other three rifles.

    I tell them if they want to Rax it like I am, cool but remember you really don't want to counter snipe with it unless the other sniper doesn't know you are doing it ( ie no Sniper Duels) and don't attempt to hip fire it in close range and just use your pistol on flankers. I also warn them that its not that good if you come up behind someone to hip knife either (Only had to do this a few times but feel that it's way too awkward waiting for that delay and since the target already has his back to you might as well use a pistol *bam, bamknife*). I have also had people ask about it as a suppressed weapon for sneaky kills to which I tell them for my playstyle I would not even though I have tried it out for about 100 kills or so. The weapon just seems more geared to work beyond the range where the suppressor would be necessary but they are welcome to try it.

    I also agree that people should play the hell out of this weapon to give the most informed opinion possible and make charts like Vahpell does and timing analysis like Rigsta did. I know I immediately switch from trying to finish the QCX I was trying to Rax when the RailJack came out because sniping is my thing and I won't stop till I feel like I've gotten the weapon's measure.

    I've usually been good about finding a weapon's ups and downs by the time I've reached the 300 kill area. My usual method of Raxing a rifle is also to never put it down until I'm finished Raxing it so that in that time I've played with it in all possible scenarios many times over long range, mid range, close range, CQC, and anything in between.

    So far it could be called a side grade to the Bolt Driver since it ohk to the head farther and has a flatter bullet trajectory (those being the only things it does better since TTK is measured from when you pull the trigger) but, if you are looking for those traits I tell people you are better off getting a Longshot with the certs or Station Cash instead as it will do those things as well as hit your target much sooner, not leave you exposed and ADS for longer than is needed to make your shot, and you won't have to learn a brand new weapon mechanic.

    I am however willing to keep using this weapon until a clear picture emerges so that we can create as concise an assessment as possible while discussing it further with the infiltrator community, even beyond Raxing it if need be.

    - SideWinder
    • Up x 1
  12. Vanon

    That for reactions, like some one throwing a basketball at your face at point blank range. It's also greater then .2 seconds. 200 ms delay is like shooting with 200 ms ping. Most people get upset with lag at 100ms in FPS games. It's apples and oranges.
  13. FieldMarshall

    The thing is that you dont actually "compensate" for the delay. Your gun doesent freeze in place when you click fire...
    If you track your target for an extra 0.5 seconds after clicking fire, you wont notice anything.
  14. Emotitron

    If you don't like it... don't use it.
  15. GunsmithJoe

    If you don't like this thread... don't read it. o_O
  16. Vaphell

    true, it feels laggy in straightforward use, but some argue that you can exploit the delay time to introduce last millisecond corrections after LMB when the target changes its course. Processing that information requires 200ms minimum so the benefit is not really there and that's what he meant.

    that implies steady hand for 0.5s is easier than fire-and-forgetting with a proper offset. Maybe it is true in case of noob snipers but unlearning general BASR skills compatible with 4 other rifles for the sake of it is a hefty price to pay, as is exposing yourself to countersniper fire much longer and throwing away the utility at close/mid range where other rifles are almost hitscan.

    Failjack has artificial bareer of entry (delay) and lower skill ceiling (delay = twitch shooting out, drag-sniping out, strafe+cloaking asap out). It's a dead end rifle for passive snipers that is all bling, no substance.
  17. Rift23

    Something tells me these ESSRs were made for non-snipers. VS gun has infinite ammo and no drop while TR's is a battle rifle from teh Halolz.
  18. space laces

    well some ppl like this weapon, this is understandable, the delay is may be not really a con for them, but, for me, and i am sure i am not he only one, when i press the trigger this is THE moment, neither before, nor after, i recreated an other NC ( i still have the test CD on railjack ) and retested it, and i had an other issue with it, wich is quite odd, sometimes my bullet just ... goes where it want, like the ads mix with the hipfire, the cone is lower ( never more than the half of a scope ) but sometimes the bullet goes up, or down , or left/right, i first thought it was me who unscoped too fast, but it happenned even with a longer scoped time, and i was on a flat surface. i hnever had that with my longshot /parralax/ram 50, so is it my fault? do i do something wrong? or i am not the only one?
  19. pnkdth

    Both the TR and NC ESSRs are growing on me. The VS ESSR is trying to be everything which leaves a pretty lukewarm impression overall(but on the flipside the Nyx and Spectre are better now). I like weapons that break the mold, and I hope SOE are able to use the data generated from these weapons to create more interesting weapons in the future, because up untill now the only difference between the BASRs are minor stat changes.
  20. Clandestine

    Damn lower the damage if a nerf is needed but get ride of the delay