[Guide] Falcons, Pounders, Comets, oh my.

Discussion in 'MAX' started by W0rthy, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. Mxiter

    Mag size / (ROF/60) => 4/(80/60) = 3sec.

    As said previously

    Mag dump is when the mag is empty, regardless at what range is the target.

    Nope.
    You'll only score an HS in your stats and will get 10XP for rewards
    HS or not, non-flak Maxes requires 10 ponders shot to kill. (same results with comets and falcons)

    If AV MAXes weapons have damages multipliers for HS, it's 1.00001, like every infantry AV weapons (rocket launchers, engie AV turret) or vehicles weapons (including AI weapons like Kobalt, basiliks, marauders ect).
    Otherwise, you would be able to OHK a max with a decimator or Titan AP headshot (wich isn't the case)

    For info, the engie AI turrets are considered like infantry weapons and have HS damages multipliers.
  2. W0rthy

    I get volley differences when i headshot with pounders for instance, i tested it in VR several times, because at first i had gone with there not being a difference.

    Yes but the magdump times i use in the OP is around the time the shot hits a midrange target. What your personal definition of magdump is is irellevant.
  3. W0rthy

    Yes i was just at the test server checking out the falcons, they got rid of falcon convergence over range, with the net result that you basically cannot dual volley (both arms same time) infantry at all.

    Pounder has about 18m deadzone now, Haven't tested how long falcons deadzone is. But on the test server right now it's 60 meters.

    They both fly right by like they do with pounders at 18 meters, but with falcons on test server it is now more like 60 meters that this is the case (tested that it's around 60). but the ability to hit larger targets like armor from a distance is improved.

    This means that against infantry and maxes, you with the changes on the test server.. if you want to use falcons, HAVE to fire 1 arm at a time in the technique i talked about in the OP to hit anything with falcons, or you will hit absolutely nothing. I like it.

    Some people will really hate falcons even more after this, and some will learn to fire 1 arm at a time. But this is just even more indication that the deadzone offsets the falcons immense damage potential, and that it is intended that you fire the falcons like this against max and infantry. Same deal with pounders.

    Deadzone on the comet? great, the more skill required to use these weapons the better and the more interesting. I didn't really notice that much of a difference when testing the comet on the test server though?

    Anyways i like the changes. I might write an updated guide when they hit the test server. Mostly just focusing on video though because i realized that too many stats attracts too many people who are not interested in anything else but waste peoples time with nonsense.

    Ah man the fractures needed a nerf bad, first off they were completely out of character compared to ravens and vortex, secondly they required pretty much no aim compensation that is worth speaking of. And 2 volleys to kill an infantry. and you could lock down with them to make them absolutely batbleep crazy. It is hilarious that TR even complained about the comets in the first place having such an OP weapon at their disposal.

    Comets were balanced against pounders, the way fractures behaved against infantry was a development error clearly. That's why you see some people running around with like 3-5000 fracture kills or something completely ridiculous like that.

    Yeah i see it now, they added a huge deadzone on the fractures haha.. That's more like it, now you have to use them as pounders if you want to hurt infantry a little bit. They are now more anti tank as they should be, and in line with ravens and vortex.

    To those people who have been naysaying the entire thread about deadzones not being intentional but a bug.. please look at how SOE is balancing the fracture now.. deadzone is clearly a balance method they use to offset other advantages of the weapons.. And you are expected to use them in a way so that you offset that deadzone instead of asking for them to remove it. In other words l2p!
  4. Mxiter

    Or maybe it's yours?
    Are you waiting to hit the target before reloading?
  5. W0rthy


    Waiting to hit target with last volley before i stop the clock.
  6. FatalityCrab

    If you're so intent on them nerfing comets so that you feel you are using a more skillful weapon, why are you using a ZOE max at all instead of regular infantry? If you want a challenge and still feel the need to play max, try equipping charge. Yes, charge, that alternative to ZOE. It's an alternative, right?
  7. pintle

    This is your personal definition of mag dump, the accepted, normal use of the phrase= time to empty the magazine.

    You do not need to wait for shots to connect before you begin reload cycle, and break LOS with your target.

    Projectile travel time does not come into it. If you want that to be included in your "mag dump" time, please state muzzle velocity and range to target.

    I don't see people making claims that Comet are op, as you constantly suggest. I see people suggesting that ZOE is op, and that Pounders and Falcons are effectively non-viable in their stated role, even worse for AI work.
  8. PastalavistaBB

    The OP wrote down a ton of stats, so it must be true...

    or

    This is all BS- I mean VS, Propaganda to disguise that not just ZOE but VS Max weapons themselves are OverPowered/Performing when compared to NC and TR Max weapons. Be prepared to see more threads like this in the near future.
    • Up x 2
  9. Shellana

    Even with that definition, you get different results.

    By the strictest definition of mag dump, I would get 6 shots at 0.5 seconds between shots is 2.5 seconds because the time between the last shot and the beginning of the reload doesn't not count. Or to put it another way.
    0s - Shot 1 leaves the barrel
    0.5s - Shot 2
    1s - Shot 3
    1.5s - Shot 4
    2s - Shot 5
    2.5s - Shot 6 leaves the barrel

    This is probably the definition that matters most, because it determines how long you have to expose yourself to enemy fire to empty the magazine.
  10. pintle


    That interpretation is also assuming that the firer is clicking perfectly, and not falling victim to oversampling.
  11. Shellana

    Yeah, but my point was that the 6 x 0.5s = 3s math up thread was wrong because you don't have time between shots on your first shot.
  12. PastalavistaBB

    Btw, I trialed the second Pounder Heg on my TR Max in a big Crossroads fight yesterday. The number of kills I got in the 30 minutes trial time was "1" (One). Off course you can say "LoL N00b L2P", but I can't even imagine how many kills I would've gotten if I had my VS Max with Dual Comets in the same situation. I was so frustrated of the Pounder that later I unlocked Dual Fractures which cost me 2000 certs versus the Comets 250 which I get one for free.
    • Up x 3
  13. Santondouah

    Don't forget that Falcons and other AV weapons (Comet I guess too) will be nerfed mi-december. Falcon 875 -> ~550 damage.
  14. PastalavistaBB

    I know that. TR had a decent ranged AI option with the Fractures, now only VS will have that option after the nerf. (I see VS AI Maxes firing at me from 100+ meters distances. The accuracy of VS weapons in general is just too high. You can't hit the broad end of a barn with TR AI weapons after 30-40 meters.)
    • Up x 3
  15. Santondouah


    Yup, fully agreed... MAXs' zone of reign should be limited to CQC but with still MAX vs. infantry options at mid range, a bit like NC/TR MAXes. (Yes NC MAX can be effective at mid range, see mattock+slugs). VS is just too effective at long range. A reduction in projectile speed could be an interesting way to reduce this long range effectiveness without affecting CQC/mid.
  16. Lt Andrew

    Have been trying pounders and they seem good if you spend time to learn adjusting your aim for each arm. They certainly don't need a nerf in damage. 4 shots after the nerf are just too much and takes too long to kill infantry, the flight path adjustment that doesn't let the projectiles diverge, after converging at a certain distance, is a nice change for it's AV abilties.

    On live comets are still better at AI, but they and possibly falcons (they have a smaller deadzone on PTS) are the only ones that need a nerf (mostly comets).
  17. Lt Andrew

    Double post

    After spending a lot more time in PTS I'm liking the pounder changes more. Seems there was an update for these weapons
    I remember, that because of nanoweave a lot of explosives were more powerful than they should've been. But because of the nerf to NW they don't need as much damage to serve their intended purpose.

    The falcons deal 555 damage each with 10 splash, so they still can kill in only two shots even with max flak armor.

    Pounders deal 271 direct and 117 splash damage at 0.5 meters (it won't became a better spamming weapon, the increased splash damage is only so flak would work). Only max lvl flak will take 4 shots. Yessssssssssssssss.

    Comets are 302 direct and 147 splash at 0.5 meters, takes 3 shots without flak and 3 with flak (mhmmmm). Getting all the magazine on target might be a bit too much.
    These are only changes in the descriptions and don't seem to have been put on the guns themeselves.

    TL/DR
    The pounders can get 2 kills and heavily damage the third guy, with a single mag without flak. Flak makes it into 2 kills only.

    Comets can only get 1 kill and lightly damage the second guy with and without flak, with a single mag.

    Falcons can instagib 1 enemy with and without flak in a single mag.

    PS. I love you J. Sanchez (no h0mo)
  18. Mxiter

    Pounders spend also more than twice the time to magdump and reload (4.75 sec) compared to falcons and comets ( respectively 2.1 and 2 sec)
  19. Lt Andrew


    Which is the weaker side of them and could put them in balance with the others. Unfortunately there's still the incresed drop...

    EDIT- the drop was lessened greatly and magdump + reload for the comets is 3.75s
  20. Mxiter

    On PTS?