Faction weapon traits - Do they need to be better defined?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by BluescalesNZ, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. QuakerOatsMan

    It's not entirely about better definition (of current dev-given traits). If they want to add variety (ie: more cohesion and fun) but keep the current "balance", they should move away from strict faction-specific traits and go more towards lore or theme.

    TR would be much more interesting if they went more towards rockets, gatling guns/miniguns, missiles etc.—generally a saturation of bullets, missiles, and explosions. They are supposed to be a professional military after all. (I would be especially love to see some MIRV-type weapon for the TR).

    NC should stick with hard-hitting/tough defense, and stick towards the railgun/gauss route. I can't really figure out their theme besides that, but they seem to be a midway between TR and VS in terms of technology, although they strictly stay away from anything alienish.

    VS probably have the most potential for variety, since they are future themed.
    Where are the fusion rifles (devs shouldn't just slap on a different color and sound for the bullets and call it plasma/lasers, although the lasher/PPA is probably closest to the theme)?
    Limitless energy (the ESSR finally touched a bit on this)?
    Hovering buggies (if there are magriders, there should be at least mini versions)?
    There is so much inspiration they can draw from other games that it disappointed me the first time I tried the VS (and NC/TR). The devs could be much more creative with the designs but just won't go that extra step.
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  2. ColonelChingles

    Make NC the freedom fighter/terrorist faction that specializes in asymmetric warfare and improvised weaponry (which I'd imagine is how they got Gauss stuff).

    Some examples:

    While the TR are playing around with rockets, the NC should be able to plant cloaked EFP IEDs (which for balance reasons can be spotted with Darklight flashlights). These are specially designed to take out vehicles by blowing out their bottom armor with a directional charge. 1 is enough to take out even the heaviest MBT, but the downside is that it must be manually detonated. Another downside is that it is directional, so unlike C4 it is fairly useless against infantry (unless they are very very unlucky). Think an AT mine that you have to pull the trigger for.

    The NC can also (for the cost of additional infantry resources) turn any vehicle into an unstable bomb of massive proportions. The original driver can detonate these vehicles at will. They would also detonate on death. The downside is that if the vehicle is critically damaged there is a random chance that it could explode. Plus of course the infantry resource cost. And maybe less room for ammo/passengers because of EXPLOSIVES.

    Not only that, but the NC can also wire themselves to explode upon death, though for safety reasons this is programmed with a timer delay. It takes up a utility slot and infantry resources as well, but some reconstituted NC troops have claimed that it's very rewarding to go out with a bang. An unusual side effect is that infantry instantly detonate if they are run over by a vehicle (enemy or otherwise). Yay for living landmines!

    Biological weapons are an NC favorite (Smells like freedom!), and while they are not as damaging as TR rockets they are difficult to detect until it is too late. Also infectious (think the Engineer sticky grenade but a gift that keeps on giving). Can lead to amusing situations where TR and VS troops are forced to gun down their own infected allies to keep the infection from spreading. Or find a Medic, which works too.

    A hallucinogenic version also exists that makes everyone look like snowmen and makes fireworks constantly explode in all directions, accompanied by auditory sensations of the most annoying Sunderer horn. Unfortunately NC "scientists" have yet to figure out how to tailor this biological weapon to only attack VS and TR, and as a result everyone is susceptible to its effects. Test subjects have described it as "trippy", and testing was terminated despite the huge numbers of volunteers.

    When experimenting with depleted uranium rounds, the NC suits quickly realized that they could increase temporary combat effectiveness if they just used plain old uranium. I mean who has time to wait for the darn thing to decay? This resulted in a unique uranium-Gauss recoilless rifle that can shoot rods of uranium through vehicle armor. It did little damage to the vehicle, but would slowly kill the occupants inside by radiation poisoning. The downside is that such radiation can easily be cleaned up with medical nanites (just by aiming the Medic tool at an infected vehicle), and every time the weapon is fired it damages the shooter.

    NC hackers have figured out a way to seriously mess with nanite programming. These rogue nanites can invade any nanite-based tool or special F ability slot, reversing the effects. For example, a Medic healing tool under the effects of these rogue nanites will hurt allies instead of heal. An Engineer repair tool will slowly dismantle a friendly vehicle instead of repair it. A Heavy Assault shield will actually render them more vulnerable to damage, and the Infiltrator cloak will cause them to sprout gigantic "shoot me" signs. Unfortunately because these nanites unionized, the NC hackers were unable to convince them to only go after enemy devices. Also will only work within a certain radius and only for a limited time until they take their union mandated break.

    Pretty much if it's against the international laws of war, the NC should probably be trying it out!
  3. iPlague

    I can only agree with multiple posts in this thread, and feel like I can't add anything other than repeating what's already been said.

    It's plainly bad game design what's been done to the Empire Specific Traits.
    TR - Fast fire rate faction, low bullet damage - Doesn't have the fastest firing weapons in each category, doesn't have +163 Carbine
    NC - High bullet damage faction, low / fixed fire rate - Has highest Bullet damage weaponry, also has access highest ROF weaponry - no +750 rof LMG.
    VS - Accuracy Faction - Has access to both high rate of fire, and 1 high 163+ weapon in each main category - downside generally smaller magazines, however faster reload.

    TR got ****** in this, no matter how you look at it, it's a faction without a Empire Specific strength which was defined but denied by Higby who wanted the Carnage AR and GD-7F for NC :I (Now imagine the TRV had access to ADV foregrip, then they'd be on par)
    Not to mention, sorry you can't have a strong +10 ammo weapon, it's gonna have to be inaccurate to balance it so you need to spray those +10 bullets to get a kill :D - BAD BALANCE DECISION!

    I mean the Lynx has a ROF of 750, same as the Trac 5, but not only does the VX6-7 has a smaller COF, but it also has +50 ROF, and less random recoil so you can ADS with it to some success.
  4. TheBloodEagle

    Faction differences & flavor get nerfed because community says they want it but actually prefer sameness for balance instead. Often, when a new weapon comes out, instead of comparing it to other weapons in a factions OWN arsenal, they compare it to the other two factions and whine when theirs doesn't function nearly the same. Another issue is the community tries to make new weapons or changes to weapons feel like upgrades instead of another good choice.

    An example of community ignorance:
    VS used to have a weapon damage model that actually gave them an EDGE up to 70m. It was like they had an alternate version of Soft Point ammo by default without the velocity reduction negative! But forumside complained a ton early on because they didn't understand it at all and actually thought the whole thing was a disadvantage because nobody bothered to look at the actual data... So terrible. The few that did, like me, were drowned out. It was one of the few things that made Vanu feel inherently different.

    This is how it was previously (comparison):
    Carv = 143 @ 10m / 125 @ 65m
    Orion = 143 @ 10m / 112 @ 115m

    EM6 = 167 @ 10m / 143 @ 75m

    This is what that looked like (March 2013):


    What it meant:
    With a 143 damage model (above), the Orions bullets did more damage than a Carv bullet up to 70 meters! This was the same for all 143 damage tier weapons. Since most firefights take place under 70m, with the majority less than 20m, the VS would have had a good advantage naturally with a slight disadvantage past 70m. This would of been very beneficial to the type of gunplay going on now since long range combat is pretty dead now anyway.

    Forumside is & was just so ignorant early on, it was frustrating. This was an actual unique aspect of VS and logical, lore wise, for a "laser" style weapon. Now TR and VS have the EXACT SAME damage model (143, 167, etc). Guess what, it's exactly the same for NC too! How interesting.

    Here's what being exactly the same looks like (damage model / 143):
    Classic bullets, gauss rounds & lasers seem to work exactly the same in the future & lore. Must be the nanites.


    The Problem:
    Forumside pretends to want faction flavor & traits. So overall we just end up being reskins of each other.
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  5. NinjaTurtle

    Fact is SOE are to afraid to experiment too much. The QQ even for the smallest weapon differences causes little motivation for them to try anything unique or intresting

    The player base have only themselves to blame for boring uninspired weapon desig
    • Up x 1
  6. Goretzu

    That just is not true.

    There was a load of rubbish posted about the railjack prior to it's Live release it was completely FALSE.

    The bullet drop is very similar on both rifles, it would be marginally better than the Longshot at ranges under 400m if it didn't have the delay, but it does, as well as bullet drop.

    It's a decent LMG and good at long range, but at those ranges you'd mostly be better off using something else, and at ranges under that you'd be better off with an Anchor or EM6.[/quote]
  7. minhalexus

    Maybe you havent checked out the RoF of the Lynx, or maybe you never used it.

    The Lynx has a RoF of 800.
    Please recheck your stats.

    Here is a good source:

  8. Wobberjockey

    the hue problem though was that it absolutely screwed over VS infiltrators,
    at comon sniper ranges, we needed to 3 shot people IN THE HEAD to get a kill. 5 for body shots.

    basically under 70m the VS were good, but if you tried to use your weapons at more than 70m, you were screwed.

    and if you could not get closer, there was now way you could deal with that fact.
  9. TheBloodEagle

    So you're saying one class for VS screwed up the whole "unique" thing for the 5 other classes? Why does one class mess up the rest? How about other stuff like how VS don't have bullet drop...except on sniper rifles...couldn't they have just changed that instead? or how about for Inf snipers, they'd increase the headshot multiplier so they'd be rewarded with headshots even more but body shots less? There's so many unique things you can do. But that's exactly the problem with the community; The they can do this, but we can't do this, CHANGE IT mentality.

    You weren't screwed with every other weapon above 70m. God, it's so frustrating, I've played this game since BETA and I see it the fights constantly, only a MINORITY of infantry kills take place further than 70m. Those are usually pot shots anyway and people can easily evade them. You're basically telling me that around 100m a VS bullet from an AR or LMG would have felt like a carbine, SMG or pistol bullet...so does that mean those are useless above 70m too? Should we change them?!? The Sniper issue could have been tweaked to still be unique. You know what I mean?

    Look, I can even prove it. In this example there's a pistols and carbine... looks useless past even 60m? Does that mean...you're so screwed that it should completely change? Does it mean, tactically, maybe you shouldn't head on attack someone past 70m? Making VS, TR and NC all the same damage model wise is good for faction diversity...how? In fact, with the old damage model, VS would have been doing much better with all those weapons at any practical range.

    I don't even play VS ever and I'd want them to have this edge (buff) instead and I'd except it because I like faction diversity. If anything TR would be screwed even more if they kept the previous damage model. I'm ok with that because maybe it would mean we can get some ROF traits back.

    (sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you)



    Like I said, people act like they want diversity but really don't.
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