Faction weapon traits - Do they need to be better defined?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by BluescalesNZ, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. BluescalesNZ

    What do you think? Are the weapons fine as they currently sit, or is there too much similarity and faction cross over?

    I'm of the opinion that this needs to be looked at, but I have my doubts as to whether meaningful changes can be made without affecting the game so much in way that changes the handling of people's favorite firearms, and forces them to buy or use other ones.

    • Up x 1
  2. Gammit

    They feel very similar to me. The only difference I feel is cosmetic in terms of different lights/bullets, sound, etc.
  3. LT_Latency

    No every time a faction gets something good that is unquie to them we want it nerfed ASAP.
  4. tastyBerryPunch

    I think faction traits shouldn't be defined by all infantry weapons. But rather they should be defined by empire specific weapons (heavy weapons, the new sniper rifles, etc.) and empire specific vehicles.
    • Up x 3
  5. vanu123

    NC are currently the only faction with all 3 (Hard hitting- God Saw, No bullet drop - Railjack, and ROF GD7F)
    I want no bullet drop because our tanks have the most drop out of any faction.
    • Up x 1
  6. minhalexus

    You got 1 part wrong.

    NC's AF railjack has bullet drop. Its the same as the Longshot.
    Assuming the Longshot is nearly the same as the Paralax and RAMS, its safe to say the Railjack has equal bullet drop to any other BASR that is good.

    Now that I've cleared the fact NC does not have a 'No bullet Drop' Weapon.
    If you consider the VS, they have No bullet drop carbines and SASR and LMGs, and they have the Serpent for the ROF.

    But still i think the VS and the TR should get a carbine similar to the AC-X11 (the 200 damage carbine)
    I'd LOL so hard if the VS and TR don't use it. (i found it pretty bad)

    I think GD-7F is the one and only weapon that is letting the TR and VS claim that the NC has SO MUCH more weapon diversity than the other factions.
    This can be fixed my introducing a carbine like AC-X11 for the TR and VS. (you can not just take away the GD-7F without having the NC who paid for it outrage in anger)

    NC LMGs do not have a great weapon diversity. Giving an example of the Gauss SAW doesnt explain diversity since its an NC style weapon.
    The VS and TR do not get a good long range LMG like the God SAW, but they do get amazing CQC LMGs like the Orion and T9 Carv. And just like that the NC does not get a weapon like the Orion or T9 Carv.
  7. Paperlamp

    They need to be less defined: NC has the best variety and they're better for it. Problem is the stats seem to be balanced most of all around damage per bullet. The problem with that is these are how many of each different tier the factions have:

    NC: 1x143, 4x167, 2x200
    VS: 5x143, 1x167
    TR: 6x143

    NC: 2x143, 3x167, 1x200
    VS: 5x143, 1x167
    TR: 5x143, 1x167

    NC: 1x143, 4x167, 1x200
    VS: 4x143, 2x167
    TR: 5x143, 1x167

    Compounding this issue is how goddamn useless most 143 guns with low RoF are(so no real loss for NC), and that the NS weapons for this category are all 143 damage w/low RoF but special traits. Then you've got TR/VS having no access to the 600 RoF 167 damage model(except 1 burst gun), while NC has up to 845 RoF 143 weapons.

    TR asks for some higher RoF weapons, TR gets told they can't go higher RoF. Fortunately for NC they can handle higher damage though so they get a unique style of weapon TR and VS have nothing comparable too. But of course because of how close-range focused infantry combat is, NC absolutely had to have good high RoF weapons comparable to VS/TR's. Mid-long range balance be damned in the meanwhile, we'll let NC keep their massive advantage there.

    The only thing NC really lacks is a 750 RoF LMG, but the difference in TTK between those and the 167/600 tier is not as dramatic as with the 800-845 RoF ARs and Carbines vs. 167/600.

    It's unfair as hell, and just plain bad weapon balance and design.

    I personally say bring on the homogenization. I'd rather TR and VS be more like NC than for all the factions to be more like TR with a bunch of useless variations of one gun type.

    /end rant
    • Up x 5
  8. Outreach

    I'm just wondering why Higby and the rest of the devs see fit to allow NC to have VS/TR traits but VS/TR aren't allowed anywhere near NC traits. Hell I'm wondering why VS gets the ******* shaft so hard when it comes to traits. No drop is so ********. Most the areas where you're fighting it doesn't apply because no one else is experiencing any, and on the guns where no drop would be good it gets removed. Hell we don't even get access to a unique mbt ability. It's just a renamed turbo boost found on the Nanite systems crap.
  9. Wobberjockey

    the factions definately need more definition, but i feel that the VS have gotten painted into a corner.

    as most forumsiders LOVE to point out "no bullet drop!"

    but when was the last time you compensated for bullet drop?
    outside 100m?
    how much combat takes place outside 100m?
    you realize that all VS weapons have slower projectiles and so they need to compensate for more left/right movement? (baring BA snipers which are identical)

    plus it's really hard for a designer work in a 3rd trait if the TR are Hi ROF and the NC are high damage/shot

    it would really be better if we focused on 3 attributes: damage, accuracy, and ROF

    TR would ALWAYS have the highest ROF, VS would always have the highest accuracy, and NC would have the highest damage/shot
    as secontary traits, VS weapons IN GENERAL would have less recoil/bloom, TR would have better damage/shot but larger bloom/cof growth, and the NC would tend to suffer in the ROF area

    individual guns might break the secondary trait, but never the primary trait.

    so VS: quick firing accurate weapons with low recoil and lower damage/bullet = more rounds on target/kill but easier to land those rounds

    TR: Rapid firing weapons with moderate damage/shot but with high recoil = burst firing necessary, but can be used for supression by holding the trigger down.

    NC: large bullets slow rate of fire, decent accuracy.= all about the alpha strike and getting the first few rounds on target.

    just a thought.
    • Up x 2
  10. BOOKEN

    Teamwork beats everything.

    I personally have never asked for a buff or a nerf. And never even thought to myself something needs to be better. I have an assortment of weapons and so does my enemy. If I am smarter than him, I win every time. If I play as a team, we can't be stopped.

    Sadly PS2 is losing this trait of the game more and more.
  11. minhalexus

    First mistake:
    NC only has 1x200 carbine.

    You are comparing weapon diversity by bullet damage.

    If you compare these stats in terms of RoF, NC would be at bottom of the charts except for the GD-7F which would be on par with the Serpent.
    One major thing about TR guns in general is that they get 1/3 higher magazine than average NC/VS guns.
    I never see this being highlighted in carbine/AR discussions.

    I think this should also be implied on the LMGs, make the 100 round NC LMGs have 75 round magazines, but give them a reload speed reduction to balance that out. This would bring in uniqueness to the factions a bit.

    Other than the GD-7F name me one other gun that is a mis-fit in the NC arsenal.

    I wouldnt mind if the TR and VS got an AC-X11 (200 damage carbine) since the NC already got its GD-7F.

    Honestly infantry gameplay is pretty balanced at the moment. Introducing a few new guns will do the trick.
  12. Trudriban

    If it were up to me (which many of you will be glad that it isn't) every generic-ish gun (like the GD7F/Serpent, shotguns, bolt action, stuff like that) would be an NS gun and everyone would be able to use whatever and we'd all be happy. Stuff that has much more faction flavor (like the AC-X11, Armistice, and Lasher) would be the only things faction specific. Why? So we can get rid of green grass syndrome when we do comparisons of weapons and concentrate more on looks and music when picking an empire rather than having to deal with a boatload of the same carbine just so you can have an epic orchestra play when you're taking a base. Also VS would get a burst fire pistol since we'd all have one so that's a plus

    Typo or am I forgetting a rifle?
  13. ManualReplica

    High RPM > DPH

    I assure you, you are not missing out on anything by not having 500 RPM - 200 DPH weapons.
    • Up x 1
  14. gigastar

    First thing that comes to mind is that no bullet drop isnt an advantage. As pointed out by someone else, the no bullet drop on weapons that do have it doesnt apply most of the time because of the general bias towards CQC in this game.

    And that the few weapons where it would make the difference have had the trait explicitly removed.

    And (the thing that pisses me off the most) is that on weapons where it could be considered slightly effective (Nyx, Eidolon) we have to pay for it with lower bullet velocity than TR/NC.

    Id rather that VS had high bullet velocity or faster reloads as a trait. Both of those traits are already present on a surprising number of weapons, though thier application is haphazard.
  15. Paperlamp

    Bullet damage decides most of the characteristics of a gun. Vertical and horizontal recoil, bloom, starting cone of fire, hip-fire accuracy, etc. etc. are all decided by it.

    Yes it's a bit general, but you'll see there's a pattern. 167 guns will all have lower horizontal recoil but higher vertical, smaller starting cone of fire, worse hip-fire, etc. They handle very differently than 143 tier, and are dramatically more effective past roughly 40m.

    143 damage w/750+ RoF will dominate CQC, but under 750 RoF there's not many redeeming features for these guns. Yes, some are easy to handle or have goodies like attachments and .75 ADS slapped on, but for the most part they're just bad and a 167/600 gun is straight up better in the majority of situations.

    I would much rather have 1 high RoF 143 and multiple variations of a 167 weapon than vice versa for that reason.

    40 round magazine also isn't worth the tradeoffs TR makes for it now. It is actually brought up a fair amount, and while on a few guns it's nice since sometimes you can kill an extra target in close ranges, but having all our weapons take a hit to accuracy to receive this trait sucks, and to boot it comes with long reloads and you'll be reloading with 10+ rounds in mag quite often.

    I've really come to hate it as a faction trait by now. The only carbine with reasonable accuracy for TR(T5 AMC) does very low damage and basically is an NS weapon with high velocity but no .75 ADS. NC and VS have many .2 and under horizontal recoil carbines, TR has only one with .2 if you exclude the TRAC-5 burst as you should.


    Just across the board terrible stats and terrible variety at this point.

    Agree with this approach. TR would have to get more than just the Armistice though as NC has a uniquely high bullet damage gun in every category basically...plus armistice sucks, and what the 'ell is VS going to get? lol. Lasher is definitely not enough, and no-bullet drop is not going to matter for most guns much.

    It would require a serious revamp/new approach and I doubt they're up for it at this point.

    And yes it was a typo.
  16. Lafladitu

    I think they should follow the faction traits from the original planetside, it would make each faction more special.
  17. Bankrotas

    Carnage AR and GR-22.
  18. Bape

    VS has 200 and 250 damage pistol copy of the magshot and rebel
    VS has shotguns
    VS has 167 guns
    VS has no bullet drop
    VS max has 167 damage
    VS has 750/800 rof weapons

    TR has 167 damage guns
    TR has shotguns
    TR has 187 damage TRAP
    TR max has 167 damage
    TR has no 167 carbine if im not mistaken?( Stop whining NC doesn't have a 750 RoF lmg)

    NC has 750 RoF weapons AR/Caribine (TR trait)
    NC has the GD-7f( This RoF should get nerfed down to 800)
    That it for NC

    First off VS has nothing to complain about to the NC they have nothing that is faction specific to them the Railjack has the same bullet drop as the longshot so that myth has be proven false. The TR do have something to whine about and that the NC/VS AR/Carbines which have very high RoF which both should get nerfed.
    • Up x 2
  19. Hibiki54

  20. KnightCole

    Yes, they do.

    TR need Exmags on more of their weapons. As the faction for Dakka, it doesnt make sense so few of their weapons get it.

    Lord knows they would benefit from it, needing half the mag or more to kill a single target, getting an extra 20 rounds in the mag wouldnt hurt.

    MSWR: 50-Exmag(75)
    T9/TMG/9S the like: 100(200)
    ARs: 40(55)
    Carbines: 40(50)

    Then dont give the TR a single gun below 700RpM. Also, lower their H-Recoil jitter and FSM, but increase CoF bloom a tiny bit. So at range they can burst fire a fair bit better, allowing them to use their RoF, low damage to over come the NC slower ROF High damage when in a snipery type of fight.

    VS should get the Lasher effect added to all their weaponry. Make it minor so as not to be OP, but give it to them. maybe a 20pt Lasher effect, out to maybe 0.5m. Or an incendiary effect, burning targets for a short time, maybe 20pts per shot they hit with.

    NC, they just need no guns that fire faster then 652RpM and no damage lower then 167 or 143. Also, give them the best Damage degradation, CoF bloom and lowest FSM overall. But High V-Recoil. Compensators for almost all weapons. Exmag would be all but eliminated.

    EM1: 167@8m-143@50m 625RpM
    Remove the GD7F entirely.
    • Up x 3