Faction Imbalance

Rejoice! They are lowering imbalance threshold to 10% so VS won't be overpopped by more than 10% now

yeah.. this will deffo help

edit:

they should make TR and NC VR rooms bigger....

That seems pretty accurate, unfortunately.

MTE, why not let factions share technologies? It's not completely bonkers to think factions established an agreement at some point, or stole each others' intel on vehicle and gun technologies. Topguns modeled after the vulcan for VS and NC. Tears will be shed on that day. VS would be able to tank in something more user friendly, and everyone would finally shut up about the purported i-win shield nonsense.

You CAN pick stats that are supposed to represent what the weapon is supposed to do. You can't go around trying to say the best anti-vehicle harasser topgun is mediocre because it kills infantry worse than the other anti-tank harasser guns.

Enough people read enough of other people's opinions to gain ideas of what to do. People may not go to these forums and say "i wonder what x says about this", but they do see something, and tell their friends, and their friends tell their friends "the mjolnir isnt good get the halberd instead", they get destroyed by all other harassers and vehicles, then wonder why.

And you wonder why NC loses. Stop giving bad advice. The solution isn't to find something to complain about, it's to encourage the use of things which are good.

They should make VS pants even tighter, since VS whiners definitely don't need any extra space downstairs.

at least VS has their jewels real not a VR

but kinda agree with you. Spandex for life!

So according to you a very minor increase in one field completely nullifies a significantly larger disadvantage in another field, because only the first one matters. Right.

This seems like quite a fallacy to me. But regardless if someone is told numerous times that the Mjolnir is **** it's probably because it is. As for usage, the NC prefer the Halberd by quite a large margin and for a good reason. Surely you don't believe that hundreds of players have never used a Mjolnir before and actively choose almost any other option just because someone said it wasn't any good? That no one would ever even try it, and that the other two factions don't seem to have any issues with their respective short-range AV secondaries?

Wonder? No, I've suggested multiple reasons for why I suspect the NC loses all the time. Bad advice would be to say to use the least popular AV because "it's totally under-valued and is really good" when it just isn't by any standard in practicality. The solution isn't to out-right lie about the thing (for whatever perspective one might have) but to seek change.

And the first step in solving a problem is to address it.

And your reason why NC lack of alerts server wide, platform wide, for all time is because ~bad advice~ exceeds that of anything else. Give me a break. Campagne is right about Mjolnir. There's a good reason why a significantly less amount of players use them, and why the average player level is much higher compared to the Vulcan.

And you sound a little threatened by the potential idea of other factions wielding Vulcans

Actually the Mjolnir has positively leapt from abysmal to OKishmaybe - the Aphelion has always been the poor mans Vulcan, and the Vulcan was only sidelined for a while by the ridiculously OP Gatekeeper. Now we can expect DBG to spring into action and finally fix the Vulcan. It might take 9 months - but hell, Rosemary's Baby took exactly that long too

lol the Anchor is the most OP CQC LMG in the game i can kill anything with it even the Betelgeuse 54-A. And the Jackhammer is the best shotgun in the game. If you have an Infil. Put light on and press B instagib

Is the Mjolnir really that bad ? I often gun for a friend in a harasser and I really like it, haven't looked at raw numbers but from use, It doesn't seem broken and we usually win against Vulcans (mostly because of the velocity and cone of fire when both vehicles are moving I guess).

..

Yes, the ANTI VEHICLE capability of an ANTI VEHICLE weapon is it's PRIMARY indicator for usefulness.

You are a case study in the problem you yourself are now propagating.

What reason? It kills less vehicles. It's an anti vehicle weapon. The only 'reason' people use it because people like you **** talk the Mjolnir.

Yes. Take a look at how many people use certain weapons. The Magrider is pulled less than any other MBT, even controlling for VS population.

The problem is people like you telling people to use bad stuff. Seriously, how can you justify telling people to use something that has shown to be statistically worse? Imagine if NC had to fight against 10% less vehicles because all the Halberd Harassers were Mjolnir harassers.. you know, sorta like how almost all TR harassers are Vulcan harassers?

Imagine if the VS actually pulled as many Magriders are the other factions pulled MBTs. You trying to tell me that the VS doesn't tell all of it's players that the Maggie is ****? Take a look at the other threads we've been discussing this. You trying to tell me that if the VS had a more active culture of ENCOURAGE Magrider use that they wouldn't win more than they already do?

Shut up you aren't allowed to tell NC players that stuff that is good is actually good. I guarantee you that Champagne and Direlithe have under 1 HOUR of playtime with a Mjolnir.

Form your own opinions rather than listen to snake charmers.

Sure, so by that logic nerf all AP cannons to kill infantry in three bodyshots because that's what they're primarily meant for, right? Not like hundreds of players use them as AI weapons or anything... (Not to mention it's also still worse as an AV weapon. )

If one were to go to a movie theater to see a film and 90% of the people that come out say the thing was just awful, one could safely assume that it probably wasn't a good movie. Same thing here.

The reason would probably be because the Halberd is just universally better.

Yes, the Magrider is generally less effective than a Prowler which are spammed harder. I don't see why you would accept this but not the Mjolnir's usage stats.

That'd be nice. Just not realistic with actual Mjolnirs as it would be with Vulcans and Aphelions.

If you genuinely believe the Mjolnir is so great, prove it and post an uncut video of you and another player of your choosing absolutely dominating manned enemy vehicles with a relative KDR of 1.5 or greater.

I'll wait.

[TRIGGERED]

Also I'm not at my computer right now so I'm afraid you'll have to wait a while before I am able to refute your bullsh!t.

You don't look at how many shots it takes to kill infantry when you're trying to compare tank vs tank combat though, do you? What might a Harasser be doing it its taking a Vulcan or a Mjolnir I wonder? It's not like the NC would take the Canister or anything for AI, right? Right?

.. Except in this case, 20 people go into a theater and 19 don't say anything while 1 says it was awful. Guess what the people entering the theater are gonna avoid watching, no matter how good or bad the movie actually was?

The Mjolnir is over 40% better AV than the Halberd, while being 40% worse at AI. Are you measuring an AV harasser's ability to kill infantry as equally important as it's anti vehicle killing ability?

You do realize this is inherently false because of the massive difference in true measurements between AV and AI kills? The Mjolnir and Halberd get 20 to 30 AI kph - actual AI Harasser guns get over 100 kph. They don't even compare. Yet, the Mjolnir sits comfortably above the other AV weapons at AV.

Where are you possibly coming up with this idea that the Magrider is less effective?

So.. you want to use personal anecdotal stats instead of stats gathered by thousands of players using the equipment over months and months?

OK. If you say so.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132458042

Haven't pulled a Harasser in weeks, let alone a Mjolnir harasser. My friend who gunned for me hasn't played PS2 in a few months (hes deployed in Japan so he has extremely high ping to the NA servers now).

We managed to only die from being flipped over and a lock on. I didn't count how many kills we got.

The important thing to note that I forgot to mention is how the Mjolnir is the only Harasser top gun that can kill a sundy in 1 magazine.

It isn't solely about the number of shots but rather the TTK required of three perfect shots. The same would be true of 24 shots from an AC-X11 and 25. The TTK is impacted by a much greater degree from the reload, not the singe extra shot.

Why bring an AI weapon when the AV works just as well? The Canister would be helpless against anything that rolled out to kill it, and the Mjolnir would be useless against any infantry that shot at the passing thing.

Alight, how about this: Twenty people go to the theatre. Nineteen go see movie A (featuring that guy from Grande Torino) and only one goes to movie B (featuring Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson). They've all see both movies before. The fact that only one person went to see movie B implies that it wasn't a very good movie given the 95% preference for A.

This is an issue with data interpretation. The number of users and hours of use artificially lowers the VKPU. This can very easily be demonstrated by looking at the Magshot and Executive, when the user skill and extreme minority of users compared to the default cause the worse weapon's stats to be inflated. I'm sure no one needs me to actually provide the graph.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant that for general, low/no skill rando usage the Prowler wins every time due to its sheer DPS and point-and-click simplicity, while in practice a skilled player of any tank to take out any other tank. The Magrider has the highest skill ceiling of them all.

Well not particularly, but you don't seem to agree with my interpretation of the stats and I'm curious as to why you have such a high opinion of something so unpopular.

*Cat stepped on my keyboard and posted this early.*

--Continued below.--

Only when at point blank, otherwise the thing misses too much.

What a fantastic assumption. You give players too much credit.

You have an interpretation which does not represent items fairly against one another. It does not matter how many people use something, what matters is how good it is when it IS used. Your comparison with aurax equipment is not fair, either, because you don't need 1160 kills with an AV gun to 'unlock' the Mjolnir.

The CoF of the Mjolnir is smaller than the Vulcan's. Not to mention the spinup of the Vulcan makes it inherently impossible to hit at range. Have you ever used a Vulcan? It's bullets drop nearly as bad as the Mjolnir's.

We can talk specific small aspects of their performance all day long or we can look at the ultimate result: their vkph. And the Mjolnir is better.

I am repeating myself here.

There is no statistical backing for NC being a weak faction when examining any individual piece of equipment across the factions.

You can continue to pretend like there is a problem there, but then, you'd need to suggest some sort of solution relating to individual pieces of equipment which would involve increasing or decreasing stats which directly impact kph or vkph.

Or, you can look at the statistical inequality in alert win rate and come up with a correlating solution. Does that really, really, not make any sense to you?

Why did the US leave Vietnam? Was the US outgunned? Did they need buffs? What about the USSR in Afghanistan? You can't possible tell me that you cannot forsee any reason for losses outside of "the stuff they have is better". You know exactly why NC loses, as do I. NC doesn't use what they have that is good, and fight in such a way purposefully that leads to losses.

That isn't something the devs should fix. It's something you should, and I should, and anyone else with enough time to bother with these useless forums, should fix. Now stop playing the powerless victim of the devs - it isn't convincing anyone.

No sound.

Total kills --

• One pre-damaged solo VS harasser
• One pre-damaged sunndy without gunners
• One oblivious VS heavy under-fire from another source (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say your gunner did all the damage)
• One oblivious TR infil (that did get shot multiple times by another NC)
• One unmanned VS stealth sunndy
• One pre-damaged prowler
• One unmanned TR sunndy
• One unmanned TR composite armour sunndy (with Vanguard support)
• Assisted one unmanned pre-damaged TR sunndy (with Vanguard support)
• One TR Viper lightning
• One manned TR shield sunndy (With Viper[?] and VA MAX support)
• One TR infiltrator
• One Magrider (possibly pre-damaged, heavily supported by NC heavy)
• One unmanned VS stealth sunndy

I might have missed one or two while skimming through the action-less parts.

So, to add these into categories:

• Three infantry that didn't ever even bother to fight back
• Six sunndies without gunners, one with, one assist
• A pre-damaged solo harasser which did not return fire
• A seemingly stock AI lightning
• A pre-damaged prowler focused on something in front of him
• A Magrider heavily supported by an ally

I hindsight, I should have included competent enemies without outside support, but those are hard to control for. Congrats, you completed the "challenge," I guess.

Not very impressive gameplay however, hardly anything fought back, the only actual threat that did return fire was the Magrider, and almost everything of consequence was already damaged before your gunner hit them.

I won't ask you for another video, but if you just so happen to record some footage of actual engagements...

I will give the Mjolnir the tiniest amount of credit however. It can kill sunndies about two or three seconds faster than a Vulcan or Aphelion.

Your above statement doesn't support you very well.

As for my own experience with the Mjolnir, well... Almost all of my character's data on Dasanfall in regards to the harasser is missing, the PS2 players site doesn't track vehicle weapons and I can't play the game to pull the stats from there. So, I'd have to get back to you on that.

It was a completely random 30 minute segment of gameplay. Thus, it is fairly typical, representing the kinds of situations you end up in.

You don't seem to think this has implications against other vehicles?

We got like 10-15 kills and 1 death, slaughtering Sunderers left and right after having not used what did all that for a very long time, and this doesn't support my statement that it's good?

How about you invite me to a squad this weekend and you gun my Mjolnir and we'll see if you still think it's a pos.

It's one of those small-town movie theatres.

It does not represent each item fairly because the two are not equal. If they were, this entire discussion between the two of us would be non-existent. There is a direct link between a weapon real performance ad its usage. In this case, correlation does equal causation.

I feel that my comparison is quite accurate; It demonstrates how a larger number of users brings down a weapon's average stats despite being considerably better than the statistically superior. How easily it can be unlocked only affects the users of either weapon, which poplar opposite values make it ideal for this use.

I never said the Mjolnir missed more, but let's loot at the stats anyway. (Source is the wiki.) Vulcan-H CoF and bloom respectively: 1.1 & 0.1. Mjolnir-H CoF and bloom respectively: 0.9 & 0.2. The differences are quite small, while the Mjolnir needs to land many more shots than the Vulcan.

I actually have used a Vulcan for a little bit, I quite enjoy it, great fun. I do find it to have quite a lot less drop as well as ridiculously easy to use given the nature of the weapon. Goes from point and click to point slightly above and/or in front of target and click. Leading and accounting for drop are very simple with the high RoF and volume of projectiles.

Regardless however, I disagree. Less kills in less hours from less users gives it artificially higher stats. See pistols example.

*Start of second post.

No, there isn't, but that's not what I'm arguing. (Not with you, anyway. ) You want a solution? Here's one I've been tossing around since they came out: Make the Mjolnir an NS weapon (looks like one already) and give the NC a carbon-copy Vulcan. Hell, as I've said before make it a nerf'd Vulcan for all I care.

Again, the first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge it. I'm just listing one of many factors.

No, the US left Vietnam because they got their ***** kicked fighting over an ideology to keep their economy running. There were many, many factors and reasons for why they lost to a smaller force. Factors that just don't affect a casual FPS videogame like PS2, such as tactics, familiar verses unfamiliar terrain, troop moral, you name it.

To say that the vast majority of players on only one of the three factions across every server actively chooses inferior equipment over the supposedly underused superior equipment is laughable at best.

And you're the one saying a claim has no statistical backing.

No one here has an audience with the devs.; We are all here for each other, entertaining thoughts and "what if" 's. I bet this forum doesn't even represent 2% of the total playerbase.

Even if everyone here all agreed to tell every newcomer to these forums that "X is super OP, you should use it" and every person believed what they were told, there would be absolutely no measurable impact on the game whatsoever, let alone enough to bring an entire faction down.

Don't be silly.

*Post three.

Meh.

Nope. Basically everything else is smaller.

Nah. Most of those kills were half done already. A Vulcan would do the same work better.

Well, A, what server do you play on, and B, still can't play.

Jesus christ.



So, the NC AV Grenade is worse then?

Because..


It seems to me that these entirely equal pieces of equipment don't go in order of most to least used.

2 things wrong here. First, the Mjolnir doesn't require holding down the trigger. It's COF increase is per burst, the Vulcan need to wind up every time you let go of the trigger. Second, the max mag size of the Mjolnir is 48. The Vulcan's is 90. But the Vulcan can't kill a Sunderer without reloading. So, it is not possible that the Mjolnir, per hit, does so little damage as you think it does.

You know.. we're gonna get into this "high rof vs high damage" discussion again, and in this case, your high RoF weapon doesn't win out on TTK. I'll let you think about the implications of that.

Less kills in less hours from less users gives it higher stats? So, by that logic, the Magrider is actually total garbage because it is pulled less often therefor somehow all the users are somehow more skilled? You sound like a Vanu apologist right now.

You are literally suggesting that the best AV harasser weapon be made an NS weapon. Your suggestion weakens NC, not buffs.

The point is that there are more factors than just equipment. You're kidding yourself if you think NC doesn't play differently from the other factions.

This is the only conclusion that can be made given the circumstances. See: NC maxes. Higher kph, lower use rate.

So, are you some sort of defeatist? You would rather spend your time whining and complaining rather than encouraging people to use what's good?