Faction Imbalance

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CleverAssName, Jan 21, 2016.

  1. CleverAssName

    Before I begin this, I want to emphasize that this is not a rage thread. I just want to point out some things that I feel really hurt this game, because I really enjoy it and I really want to see it do well. I am no master player. My NC character is BR 44, I lead platoons and squads from time to time, and I participate in most alerts I'm online for. If you don't want to read this whole thing I understand, but don't turn around and criticize me and call me 'salty' when you haven't even heard me out.

    Developers are busy people. Especially trying to keep this game fresh after 3 years. I understand that. However, I feel that power discrepancies between the NC and the other two factions need to be addressed. Going off of the description of the NC and what sets them apart from the other two factions, it is my understanding that the NC are supposed to have the dominant infantry weapons at close range and heavy hitting rounds. However, currently, the TR and the VS seem to outperform NC at every range. I go for and hit headshots regularly, I get plenty of kills. The problem that I have with the NC and why this seems to be a major problem in my opinion is that the NC HAVE to go for headshots just to be competitive with the other two factions. There's no option. I've created TR and VS accounts and played on them long enough to get a feel for their weaponry. I'm not speaking on this subject with just the one perspective. The TR are capable of dumping 200 rounds downrange with a blistering rate of fire, in addition to having even better shotguns than the NC, which was supposed to be our thing. The VS have weaponry with no bullet drop whatsoever, and their weapons outperform ours. We have...what? We can't outperform the VS at long range, and we can't outperform the TR at close to medium range. Our MAX units are the only thing we have that outperforms the other two factions, and even then we get people shouting, "Nerf the Ravens!"

    The vehicles are the same way. The Vanguard, for example, has a shield and stronger frontal armor than the other two factions, designed to soak up more damage than the other ESTs. What does a shield and stronger frontal armor matter against a tank that deals crazy amounts of damage anyways and a hover-tank that has no problem getting around your frontal armor anyways? The ESF is actually capable of using its afterburners effectively to outrun a tail. Our ESF isn't as effective at groundpounding as the Scythe and it's not as effective at dogfighting as the mosquito. The only thing the reaver does better than the other two is afterburning, which is only helpful for running away from the other ESFs, and even that only works if you have the fuel tanks equipped.

    I'm not saying we need to nerf the other two factions. The only nerf to the TR needs to be in the form of finding a way to bring down the power of zergs so AOD doesn't break the game with 96+ pop on every base they hit. Nerfing anything but that just causes the whole player base to become annoyed, not just a third. That being said, the NC need to have some niche. Something that makes us unique. Some situation we actually have an advantage in. Currently, I can't find it. People are going to reply claiming that I don't go for headshots. I'd like to reiterate that I do, I hit them, and I kill the other faction. But new-time NC players won't know this. They'll still shoot the other factions in the chest because the other factions get away with it. Headshots should be a tactical choice to down your opponent quicker with the risk that you miss them more often, not a necessity for the NC to dig themselves out of the disadvantage they're put in constantly. It's not some small issue for me. I've invested money into this faction because I actually enjoy playing them, but that's solely due to my outfit. I'd have hopped on the TR sprayfest long ago if not for it. I want this faction to be good. I want us to have a distinction, but currently the only one we have is the fact that we're disadvantaged in every situation possible. There's a reason that NC hardly ever wins an alert, even when we have majority control on a continent due to disregard from the other factions.
    • Up x 4
  2. Obscura

    • Up x 16
  3. CleverAssName

    If you have nothing constructive to say, get out.
    • Up x 9
  4. Poppington

    NC, in general, have the most specialized weaponry. What this means is that you'll have an amazing loadout for close range (better than equivalent TR/VS ones for that range), but it falls off hard as the range changes. TR/VS weaponry tends to be less specialized, but then also less dominant at their chosen ranges. What this means is unless you swap your loadouts around fairly often, you're more likely to be outgunned unless at optimal ranges.

    I see you're on Emerald. PHX is NC's AOD. They do the same thing. Other than that, you have a few skilled outfits, but inter-outfit coordination is very low on NC Emerald compared to TR, and especially VS. That's why VS tends to win the most - they are simply working together the best.

    From an infantry gunplay standpoint, I can tell you one huge advantage that NC guns tend to have is the nearly complete lack of horizontal recoil compared to other factions. You have greater vertical, true, but after learning your gun you can easily compensate for that. Horizontal has inherent randomness to it, so TR guns (the worse offenders) typically have a lower skill ceiling. Also, shotguns are identical from faction to faction (if that VS bug got fixed) - so that argument doesn't work. There are no hitscan guns in the game.

    This is just either faction bias or misinformation.
    • Up x 1
  5. Garrum

    "TR have better shotguns, and VS have hitscan weapons."

    Literally no one is going to take you seriously. NC have the greatest share of best in slot equipment of all 3 factions, one of those being the best shotgun.
    • Up x 2
  6. CleverAssName

    I was told that VS have hitscanned weaponry early on. I never disputed it. If that was incorrect, I apologize, but the bullet drop is still a huge advantage at long range, so it's quasi-irrelevant. While I am aware that NC have less recoil horizontally and I feel that I do a pretty good job of handling recoil, it's also mostly irrelevant. TR has the ability to spray so many rounds down range so quickly that their recoil is totally negligible, It's literally throwing so much **** at the wall that some of it is going to stick. I'm not claiming that NC is totally incapable of winning a fight, but in a firefight with two equally skilled players, one NC and one TR, the TR player will always win because he can put more lead downrange and still go for headshots to shorten his TTK even further. I can't attest to PHX's zerg style, I am not a member of them. I can say that if PHX was on the same level of abuse of zerging as AOD, I feel like we'd be winning more alerts, however I am willing to admit VS win alerts due to superior leadership. What leader would want to play NC, knowing that VS and TR have better armament.

    I appreciate your civilized response by the way, certainly not like the last guy who felt that his troll picture was going to get him anywhere.
    • Up x 2
  7. CleverAssName

    I own 4 of the NC shotguns and I can honestly say that none of them felt better than the TR's starter shotgun. And I use the NC shotguns, they can be fun, but they're not better. The Jackhammer can be the exception for this, but only at a range where you're better off with an SMG anyways.
    I'm fixing the hitscanned weapons claim now, I was told that when I was introduced to the game, so I never disputed it as untrue, that was misinformation, not bias.
  8. Gustavo M

    ...I think that the magic word for this thread is


    In other words: "Player A killed me much faster than player B; so player B must have stronger weapons than player A and my faction!".
    Also, hitreg and netcode are broken as **** right now. So if someone has killed you faster than the other guy, it's either lag or the hitreg/netcode effing you up. So take whatever happens with you ingame with a grain of salt.
    • Up x 2
  9. CleverAssName

    My individual experiences are not what instigated this thread, and I didn't make this thread out of anger from dying. I play fine. I have fun. It's just incredibly upsetting when you put 2 hours into an alert just to see that the TR and VS are going to win for the trillionth time. I'd like to reiterate here than I have played the other two factions and the learning curve is much less steep for them. I'm sorry if you feel threatened, I'm not advocating for a nerf. I'm advocating for the NC to be brought up to par with the TR and VS so we can all enjoy this game, not just the people who get to farm the NC all the time.
    • Up x 2
  10. Daemonn

    LOL NC complaining... Good troll thread. I give it 9/11.
  11. Poppington

    Actually, if you look up RPM on most guns NC has many at the top, with only a few TR guns at the very top of the list. Damage per magazine is where TR shines, not so much RPM. It's advertised differently, and I'm not saying it's designed well, but it's the truth.

    And I'm telling you, stat for stat, all empire specific semi-auto shotties and pump shotties are identical to their equivalents. The bigger issue we havn't discussed in this thread, but has been discussed many times before, is the guns you start with as NC, such as the SAW, are terrible guns for newbies. The SAW is an amazing gun, but when you're new, you should get either EM-1 or Anchor. Finally, NC guns tend to take the most cert investment to make optimal, but not by much - SAW is a good example again.
  12. CleverAssName

    I can agree with most of what you're saying, but regarding ROF I need a source to believe that. I recall one of the GDs having a better Rate of Fire, but not enough to outweigh that of the TR.
    When I talked about shotguns I was very careful to word it as they FEEL better on the TR. I have no hard evidence to explain why, maybe when I used it I was facing newer players. I think that the NC's first shotgun has a larger model than the other faction specific ones, leading to harder target tracking, but again, no hard evidence for that. It certainly doesn't feel as if NC has the close range advantage that they're meant to, regardless.
  13. TheRunDown

    I'm a 3 year+ Vet, I own 3 BR100+ toons.. and from my experience..
    A Saron + AP can almost insta kill a Prowler at close range..
    A Enforcer + Titan AP can out DPS a Prowler.. both regardless if it's the Vulcan or GK.. The Prowler's AP Weapons just aren't fairly balanced for None Anchor mode players because of the two shot barrel damage which was nurfed over 2 years ago..

    At close range the Mjolnir-H can out damage a Vulcan-H at close range..

    Anyone who believe otherwise needs to actually try each weapon in both VR and practical use and outside of Vanilla specs..

    People whine and cry about the GK, but I honestly believe people just aren't used to being shot "BACK AT!".
    A Enforcer can out DPS a GK at long range, and it's projectile speed it twice as fast.
    And Saron can easily achieve the same results if the pilot doesn't spam the button.
    And it's left to who sees who first and who shoots who first..

    I whole heartedly believe the Vanguard shield should mitigate a percentage of damage like the HA Resist Shield, not invisibility for 2000 Damage..

    I hate Anchor Mode, TR Prowler front Armuor is all in the wrong place, and the top armour is useless because it's size and shape, it clearly needs reviewing.. I hate Vanguard for having 5% more front armor, it doesn't need it..
    And I hate the Magrider for being able to claim mountains and have BS 99.9% stability mechanics when strafing.. it should SWAY AND ROCK like a canue.. like it did in PlanetSide..

    Worse thing, nothing will ever change, none of the BS will ever be balanced..
    I could make a thing about these points, but there's always white knights who'll defend such broken things to keep their easy mode tools, and get their friends to join in to break down thread.

    I'm just Ranting, but if someone actually made a thread with fairness, common sense and it was a completely reasonable request.. someone will always bully the OP so the thread becomes a debate of opinions that are always related to Farming, or try to use their KDR as a weapon to shut the OP up.. like KDR actually mean anything in a Farming Simulator..
    • Up x 1
  14. CleverAssName

    Agreed wholeheartedly, but doesn't maxed lockdown cause the prowler's DPM to skyrocket? I tried it in VR and it allowed me to fire 2 shells something like every 2 seconds. The extra 5% armor on the vanguard is nice but I honestly don't feel that it helps when a prowler is cranking out 4 shots in the span of a couple of seconds.
  15. Horrida Messor

    The sheer stupidity of original post leaves me speachless.... "VS has hitscan weapons". You know, OP, the closest to hitscan infantry weapon in the game - RAILJACK - NEW CONGLOMERATE EMPIRE SPECIFIC SNIPER RIFLE.
    Also a friendly tip - google a definition of a hitscan weapon to actually know what it is.
    Than we have this gem: "I own 4 of the NC shotguns and I can honestly say that none of them felt better than the TR's starter shotgun" - you are lying - thats incredibly easy to see, since ALL shotguns (exept JH since its actually ESHV) have IDENTICAL stats in their categories (autos, PA, high magazinne) between factions, with the exeption of VS slugs - they have 20m\s less velocity (relic from days when VS slugs had no drop).
    TL:DR - Dear OP, please next time before making a thread check your info.
    • Up x 1
  16. CleverAssName

    I corrected myself once I was presented with facts regarding hitscan. The railjack is designed to have a high muzzle velocity with a short delay before firing, and I'm well aware of what hitscan means, I've explained my reasoning regarding my comment on hitscan twice now, which you clearly saw and ignored considering my comment about hitscanned weaponry has been removed from the original post. I've also explained my opinion on shotguns and I understand their stats are identical. READ THE COMMENTS. All in all, calling me an idiot gets us nowhere and the fact that I'm accepting criticism and taking corrections to heart indicates that I'm not an idiot, but rather you are for not reading those corrections. I'm sorry that my criticism of how the NC's weaponry is currently functioning is causing you to feel threatened, as if you're going to lose your ridiculously easy to use weaponry. If you're actually going to try and tell me right now that the NC have any advantages over the other two factions at any range or situation, you're an idiot. The fact that the shotguns ARE the same stat wise only further reinforces my point that the NC have no advantages over the other two factions, as shotguns are constantly advertised to being something we're supposed to have better versions of.
  17. bLind db

    Wow. A player saying TR's shotguns are stronger than NC's, when every shotgun not named the Jackhammer is literally identical to the other factions variant of it.

    Players like you are exactly why this game has gone down the ******* drain. BR42 isn't enough time to have a ******* opinion on ANYTHING in terms of balance. You have no idea how the game works yet. You haven't experienced 90% of it.

    But hey, let's buff NC because TR shoots fast, guys. No, seriously. Let's buff the faction with bar-none the strongest infantry weapons in the game because Johnny ****ter over here can't ******* figure out why he's getting dunked over and over.

    Oh, thanks again for showing the world how much the typical shotgun ****ter knows about the game. We should buff shotguns, though, because bad players with no idea how to play planetside can't get kills at 150m with them.
    • Up x 1
  18. AlterEgo

    I certainly understand what you're getting at here, but the truth is, NC weaponry is on-par, if not far more diverse (and thus super l33t) when compared with the other factions. The TR can only dump 100 rounds at fire rates that some NC weapons already reach, and the only 200-round weapon they can have is a MCG with enhanced magazines.

    The NC have better shotguns. Why? Because ALL non-MAX and non-Jackhammer shotguns have the Same. Exact. Statistics. Deal the same damage, same RoF, same everything (although the VS shotgun has less velocity because the pellet mode has no bullet drop :rolleyes:). The VS, while definitely more accurate and more controllable than other factions, is just as effective at long-range as the player allows. Unlike the NC, VS weapons have generally worse damage range than the competition, and deal less damage than NC weapons in general.

    Take the SAW and the Polaris. The former, while a monster to control, is the most damaging LMG in the game per bullet (which is what the NC is all about: one bullet is one significant chunk of the enemy's shield/health). The latter, while a breeze to control, would take some time to kill an enemy at long range because it doesn't deal as much damage.

    As for the Vanguard, the same thing applies. It is stronger, but not invincible, and its guns have higher velocities on average than enemy guns, along with much higher damage. So, if a Prowler doesn't know how to use its dual cannons and a Magrider can't strafe effectively, then you WILL win.

    The Reaver is stronger than other planes when it comes to health, of course. Of all the planes that I've dumbfired, the Reaver is the one that escapes the fire most often, thus escaping death any way. It also deals significant damage to all targets, and its AI gun, the Air hammer, is arguably the most effective one against aircraft. Seeing all these things, the NC has no problems; you said it yourself, you get lots of kills with headshots. Fun fact? NC weaponry, when scoring headshots, is on average faster than both the VS and TR in terms of time-to-kill. So why wouldn't you want to pop some domes?:)
  19. Horrida Messor

    ok, here we go - 1) Gauss SAW has CoF of 0 on its first shot - you can tap shot enemy with 200 damage bullets with 100% (!) accuracy at range.
    2) JH - one-click-kill in CQC.
    3) Cyclone aka Keklone - best SMG in the entire game due to its damage profile.
    4) Ravens, oh boy, where do I start with this one???
    5)Indor camping with Shotguns MAXes (granted thats the only thing they can do while fighting inside the base - still they are THE best MAX to camp entrance with).
    6) and my personal salt generator - BASR as a starting default weapon on Infiltrator.
    • Up x 1
  20. Savadrin

    Isn't Server Smash consistently NC heavy or won by NC?

    I don't know the particulars of it, only that I've heard NC is the faction of choice.

    And the OP is trying to be civil, whether or not people think his ideas are bad. Sometimes it helps to educate rather than belittle. It's worth a try, anyway.