[Suggestion] Faction Diversity is Dying. It Must Be Saved.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Foxirus, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. Zazulio

    What you are complaining about has nothing to do with what the OP is asking for. If TR needs balance tweaks, then the TR can have balance tweaks. Nobody is saying that faction balance shouldn't be looked at as an ongoing process.

    All the OP is saying is that we have more than enough common pool weapons and vehicles, and that he would love to see more empire specific equipment (as would I!).

    Would you still be opposed to empire specific equipment if the TR received balance tweaks that you felt put them in a good place?
    • Up x 2
  2. Leftconsin

    Don't bargain with him. He sounds completely jaded about the faction and server he is on. If anything he should start over with VS or NC on Connery is he is so fed up with Briggs TR. There are even a few outfits specifically for Briggs refugees on Connery.

    Now, I love the idea of empire specific ATVs, more empire specific weaponry, and more emphasis on empire specific traits. Game balance it seems has been:
    Design a gun -> come up with a damage/ROF model.
    Give it the same visual model as a gun already in game.
    For VS reduce bullet velocity by ~30m/s and no bullet drop.
    For NC consider increasing the damage and lowing ROF to the next tier, then more vert recoil.
    For TR give it either higher ROF or more bullets, then more horz recoil.
    Congratulations! You made a new gun. Sell it for seven bucks.
    • Up x 1
  3. Fatal_Finn

    Wondering if SOE could organize a "pimp your weapon" contest. Let the community make new 3D models for weapons/vehicles and then SOE would tweak them if necessary. I know 3D modeling takes time but I'm sure people would love to contribute to the game for either good prize money (SC) or just simply seeing their work in game. Those community made helmets are quite nice.
    • Up x 1
  4. Foxirus

    If you are supportive of this post, Nothing will say that more than thumbs up on the threads primary concern. I am seeing alot of supports, But half of them cannot be bothered to like the page? This is the future of planetside 2 we are talking about people. Show support so the devs will actually come look at this and maybe acknowledge it.

    The reason I am wanting people to like the letter I made is because I believe that SOE staff can see forum statistics outside the thread. As you sometimes can see how many likes a thread starter has gotten in the form of hits. I feel this allows the devs to see the urgency and priority of the thread. So Please! Like the first comment!
    • Up x 1
  5. Cest7

    Underbarrel ES attachment for SF weapons

    UBJackhammer, UBMCG, UBPPA.
    • Up x 1
  6. Dualice

    Well it soitanly got my thumbs-up.

    Y'know this actually pinpoints something that often bums me out in-game: the way Vanu get to use NS weapons. It's just so out of keeping with the faction's aesthetic - if they've taken every measure to ostracise themselves from the other two factions why would they be using common-pool gear, moreover that which uses, to their mind, primitive technology?

    I read in the first Planetside (which I have downloading now) that each empire had a unique sunderer/AMS. Why was this not made a thing for the sequel I wonder?
  7. Foxirus

    Another point that I forgot to make.. On a war side, It is extremely unhealthy how dependent we are on a third party vendor for our weapon systems and transport options.. Imagine if you will Nanite Systems going rogue, While I doubt this would ever happen, It is something that I would always consider if I was the leader of a faction.

    Let me do an interesting scenario for you:

    You just receive news that Nanite Systems decided to pull the plug and remove all affiliation with the warring factions. Suddenly we have just lost what I feel is about 80% of our war tools. You will no longer have access to the following because it is essentially a Nanite Systems device:

    C4, Tankmines, AV Mana Turrets, Repair Tool, Revive Tool, All NS weaponry, Harrassers, Lightnings, Sunderers, Galaxies, Liberators, Flash, Valkery.

    I may have missed a couple things, But how dependent all of us are on a third party vendor for our tools is a vast breach in faction security in itself. We would effectively lose access to medics, engineers and all forms of transportation outside of our ESF and MBT.

    Even if they would all be the same stat wise, I don't see why we couldn't have individual designs for each of these generic NS tools. Imagine a Vanu Revive tool, It looks very sleek and alien like, But stat wise is no different. This gives a sense of diversity, Even if only on a visual level it would be better than what we have now.

    Do the devs or art team have time to go back and just redesign all of these tools for the sake of faction diversity? No. So what I am getting at is that majority of content released from this point onwards MUST be faction specific and of new design, No more ripping or sharing models.
    • Up x 1
  8. FateJH

    Yes and no, barely.

    The PS1 AMS was just faction colors on top of the same model vehicle (common pool).

    The "Sunderers" belongs to the group of vehicles called Ground Transport. They were the common pool Deliverer, the TR Raider and Juggernaut, the NC Thunderer and Vindicator, and the VS Aurora and Leviathan. And, no, that's not seven unique vehicles; it's three, barely two. The following vehicles shared the same model:
    • Medium transports: Raider, Thunderer, Aurora
    • Heavy transports: Juggernaut, Vindicator, Leviathan
    The Deliverer had different wheels but was basically in the same group as the Raider. My favorite thing to do is point out how a VS-hacked NC Thunderer looks almost exactly like a VS Aurora. This is the wiki image for the Thunderer.
    The main difference between the Ground Transport vehicles were the mounted weapons which were faction-specific but were served the same purpose on corresponding Vehicles. In fact, of medium transport vehicles, the TR had four mounted weapons unlike the other faction that had two, and all the heavy transports featured 2 75mm Lightning cannons and 2 side Ballguns as four of their six mounted weapons. That's it.
    These transport vehicles are considered "faction-specific" by the game but that's just a technicality. Not only do they look alike across factions but their major difference is a few tweaks the weapons selection. That's just my opinion..
    • Up x 1
  9. TheXenonCodex

    great, totally agree. i want more faction uniqueness too.
    step one: get people to stop moaning over the FS **** we already have.
  10. AlCohonez

    Well... you either go into totally asymmetric game play like natural selection style (you know, the rts-fps hybrid that started as half life mod) and try to create the circumstances at which your faction excels at OR you do a competitive shooter where everybody got access the the same stuff in the name of balance and you make the skill do all the talking.

    PS2 went for something in the middle, a competitive shooter with very symmetric gameplay BUT tweaked the guns a bit here and there which kinda doesn't work. To be honest if we're taking the symmetric gameplay route I would much more prefer all factions to have identical equipment (re-skinned carbon copies) which would make the whole experience less toxic with people only arguing over lore than guys doing 23 dps more or having 5 less bullets :p
  11. DatVanuMan

    After I spread the word of this thread. Do await my return; it may take a while.
  12. DatVanuMan

    Spread the word!
    • Up x 1
  13. DentedFrequency

    Must agree with the OP whole heartedly. I would LOVE to see more diversity
  14. 7 Drunk Midgets

    Going in my sig. Hopefully a developer sees this thread.
  15. Foxirus

    Thanks for the continued support, If anyone manages to get higby's attention on Higbypls, Try to mention this thread.
    • Up x 1
  16. ItsDangerous

    You know about half life which also spawned CS franchise, which in the serious "competitive shooter" world is pretty much THE standard. Im sure then youll know that it shares PS2's mix philosophy, so really there is a third option.
  17. Einharjar

    Go and Follow Mr.Nature72 and DatVanuMan right now if you're serious about this. Although DatVanu is a little less aggressive about it; all three of us (and many more) would LOVE to see such things happen.

    Also, like Mr.Nature's threads included the "Total and Comprehensive Revamp so that Everything actually Feels Good" thread.

    Good stuff.

    Lots of colors.

    In truth, I think we need to solve the core design problems with PS2 first such as the lack of Meta Game.
    But once those things are taken care of... hell yeah, bring on the unique armies!

    I would love to see exaggeratedly different forces. To help accomplish this, adding a few more mechanics like Prone, Lean, Cover mechanics and suppression could help. (BUT be insanely controversial, I know.)

    Right now, each faction even if exaggerated, are still the same.
    The VS guns are VERY generic/ Balanced feeling
    The NC guns are low ROF but high damage
    and the TR are high ROF but low damage

    If we actually laid those traits out REAL hard, we'd still have little diversity.

    High ROF / Low Damage is the same as low ROF but High Damage. There's no FUNCTIONAL change. Just like how the lack of bullet drop for the VS really means squat since the ranges we engage targets in PS2 is pretty much Butt Sex distances. (mmm... Vanu Fem-Butts... mmm... DICK TUCKER! THE EASILY AROUSED SECRET AGENT!)

    I'm talking about adding FUNCTIONAL differences and having MANY differences that purposely make things a night mare to balance but FUN none the less.

    Things like:

    Infantry Shields begin to regenerate sooner and are 15% stronger (more Shield Points)
    All infantry move 10% faster (thanks to enhances cybernetics)
    All weapons use a battery/energy pool that re-gens slowly (like a heat mechanic) and Ammo boxes increase the re-gen rate.
    All weapons get a Heat Mechanic similar to the Mana Turret (so VS cannot full auto for 20 minutes straight when standing next to an Ammo pack).
    VS vehicles have their HP halved and the rest of the HP is converted into regenerating shields the behave exactly like Infantry combat shields.
    ALL VS weapons (even vehicle weapons) have NO drop. ALL. WEAPONZZZZ.

    Unique VS Gadgets (OTHER THAN GUNS. Seriously why is there no ES slot items?)
    Shield Bubble (Increases Shield re-gen rate)
    Dynamic Sights (sights that auto zoom based on Target distance - performance of Zoom will vary per scope type of course)
    Enhanced Cybernetic Implants (improves run speed and jump height as infantry)
    Cloaking Field ( all vehicles will have access to cloaking generators)

    VS Design philosophy:

    Being mainly nerds, geeks and religious freaks; (.. haha! See what I did there?..) these guys are not meant for War. SO they compensate the best way they can. They buff themselves up to combat worthiness using technological compensation with their use of cybernetics and alien Vanu technology. They have sights that make it easier to snipe, faster regenerating shields and cybernetic suits for hit and runs and stealthy cloaked vehicles for surprise attacks. The VS is all about "Sudden Precision Strikes".

    Infantry Resistance/Armor is 20% higher than all others.
    All infantry flinch/resist suppression effects 15% less (thanks to heavy armor and ballsy pride)
    All weapons use Coil - Gauss weapon systems and thus are very accurate but KICK REALLY HARD
    All weapons have a Heat Mechanic (to let the Coils cool) to balance their very high Alpha Damage trait, being next to an Ammo Pack also supplies "coolant" (thus the heat mechanics is reduced when being supplied).
    NC vehicles have their Armor through the god damned roof; but all vehicles will have a critical zone that takes on average, more damage than other Empire equivalents.
    ALL NC weapons have the ability to Pierce Targets depending on range! (In CQC, you can possible PIERCE! YAY! EVEN WITH VEHICLES WEAPS!)

    Unique NC Gadgets
    Shield Bubble (Increases the Shield Points to those effected )
    Shield Guard ( Energy Shield attachment similar to that of the NC MAX ) available to Engi, HA and Medic classes
    Enhanced Composites ( increases armor rating further and reduces flinch/suppression effects more )
    SHOT GUNS - Yup there will be a lot of those...

    NC Design philosophy:

    Patriots, Mercenaries, Rebels. Selfish bastards fighting for a cause - the right to make their own money. These guys WILLINGLY fight for what they believe not because some one told them too, but because they want too. As a result, they think bigger is better! Bigger Rounds, Bigger Guns, Bigger Armor Plates and Bigger Tanks! In return they shoot slow and move slow; but who care when you can blow the opponent away in one shot with your righteous fury of a bonus check promise, eh?

    Infantry Health is 15% higher than all others
    All infantry Regenerate health sooner and slightly faster
    All weapons use traditional jacketed ammo and thus have a very high average RoF and high Ammo capacity - but have drop and are not as accurate
    Enhanced discipline means faster reload times when the Mag is empty, in comparison to other empires.
    TR vehicles have their Speed exaggerated, being almost 33% faster than the others; but have lower armor ratings.

    Unique TR Gadgets
    Shield Bubble (Increases HP and HP regen rate )
    Proximity Rounds ( new ammo type that explodes when close to a target so long you keep the Cross Hair on a target )
    Enhance Stim Packs ( decreases the time it take for HP regen to kick in the more damaged you are )
    Bayonets ( You're primary now becomes a BRUTAL MELEE WEAPON that does more damage than a standard Knife )

    Tyrannical, misunderstood Brother's in arms doing what they think is truly the best action for the world. The only force meant for War; the TR Armed Forces supply Auraxis's only fully fledged Disciplined Professional Fighting force on the planet. The source of their gadgetry is Government financing; and thus they make due with older technology that still gets the job done with out breaking the bank. The TR rely on speed, cover and suppression fire more than any other, a fitting tactical requirement for the team who's colors shine Disciplined Team Work as their honor and tradition.
    • Up x 4
  18. Makora

    The problem you face when trying to "factionalize" everything is severe lack of diversity within the arsenal of a faction. I would be pretty sure that no NC wants every weapon of theirs to be like the SAW or the A-Tross. A lot of damage but a very slow fire rate. As a TR I hate the idea that all my weapons should be super-high fire rate but the damage needs me to put close to 10 bullets into my enemy before they drop. VS's "no drop" feature is a bit wonky, in some cases it does seem like stupid useful when full-auto weapons seem to kill you faster at range then you with a DMR could kill them. But I heard them thinking about rolling the aurax weapon mechanics on more weapons, or was that idea scrapped?

    In any case. In every faction you need to have weapon diversity. And unfortunately for the devs, there are only so many things you can tweak to create faction identity but maintain a functional weapon for a role. And those tweaks can only be minute in all categories or you change the function and intended role of a weapon, not to mention faction "flavor".

    Sure you could change things in ways that the VS, TR and NC gun has same damage and fire rate. But the VS has a "meh" size mag with the fastest reload, NC has just a snitch longer reload, less bullets/lower fire rate, but a tier higher damage profile. And TR pretty much has double the VS in ammo and reload times. NC is the most "special" in this case, but functionally they are the same. You point at someone, press LMB (RMB too if you're MLG) and hope your dakka is better then the other guy's dakka. There is very little in "under the hood" mechanics in the gunplay you can change to further faction specifics.

    Weapon diversity within a faction is important to maintain interest and longentivity in a faction. Nothing wrong with trying out all three (you traitor) but changing faction, just so you fell like using a different flavor gun, or staying this faction to play with your friends and be miserable do not seem like good choices. Sure, as OP said, no faction but NC should have 200+ weapons. I agree but only to the point of automatic small arms. Not precision, long range weaponry. No other faction but TR having over 750 fire rate? I can get behind that, but only because it seems there are certain carbines in VS and NC that are the "go to" in 80% of the time. VS suffers from the "fifth wheel" syndrome that you can't really fit them anywhere.
  19. SpartanPsycho

    Foxirus, don't pretend to want vehicles when you want to remove them from the game. (in other words, you think that vehicles should be useless with severely laughable weapons, and infantry gets awesome weapons.)
    Bastardfield 4 actually does better with vehicles then planetside 2 does, and it is a dying franchise.
  20. Sn0w

    *Throws balance book out the window*

    Someone give this man a job!