ESSRs not going live this week

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by ISKNausicaa, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Ash87

    Somehow you quoted me as the originator of this quote, when it was Ravenorth
    It's that third shot that I had the most trouble with, using the gun. It worked pretty well at shorter ranges (Which is Fine), but when I got out a little ways, that third shot would buck up and out in some direction way away from what I was shooting at.

    That is actually okay IMO, as long as the third shot -is- controllable (Which by my observation, it was). If that is the case, and the third shot is predictable in it's pull, it becomes a higher skill cap weapon, because people can use it until they can control that third shot and get OHKs effectively. That is Fine.

    My only thing is, with the 2 shot being useless and the 1 shot being taken Out, why don't we just add the full auto mode back in. Lower the ROF if you must, but the full auto mode made it rather interesting to use.
  2. ISKNausicaa

    Well it is as far as my testing of this weapon goes its higher and it takes longer for it to return back to its settled position than the spectre, I suppose the only way this is going to be resolved is with side by side video evidence.

    Well I think that you are underestimating how much of a detriment having to charge that shot up is, from having to uncloak before making the shot in which time you could easily be counter sniped, to having to maintain a correct lead while it's charging to using breath while the charge is going to accurately maintain that lead.

    Having that alpha strike OHK capability should never be underestimated, quickly popping out of cloak to headshot infantry gunning for your position is something this rifle will *not* be able to do even remotely as well as the ghost/other basr

    The ghost on the other hand doesn't have to deal with any of this, the trade off? Slight bullet drop at its max OHK range.

    As I maintain the shade's modes individually are weaker than their single shot counterparts, and I'm fine with that, as is the traps modes, it's having the combinations of these modes in a single weapon that makes these weapons decent side grades.

    The Railjack on the other hand is a complete upgrade that makes the longshot obsolete, this shouldn't be the standard for any of these new rifles.

    Just like you, my posts on these rifles litter this forum
  3. ISKNausicaa

    Just been checking your previous posts, your main complaints seem to be the recoil and the total ammo count.

    In my test the x2 burst is effective up to 40 meters, x3 up to about 25, the recoil always goes up and right and is manageable, the single shot fire mode is effective out to a reasonable range.

    The ammo count could use a tweak, but changing the recoil could very well end up making the trap an absolute monster at most ranges.

    Interestingly enough you do agree the Railjack is an upgrade.
  4. doombro

    The NC get a direct upgrade to the longshot, and the VS get a no-drop sniper with unlimited ammo that can use two different fire modes at once. Why do we get a boring sidegrade to an already mediocre weapon? This is why TR pop is dropping like a rock.
    • Up x 1
  5. ISKNausicaa

    This is that comparison i was mentioning, i was planning on doing a side by side, but the difference in fire rate is obvious enough that it doesnt actually warrent it.
  6. S7rudL


    But what about sniper vs sniper long range.
    Its unfair to have 850 vs 650 rams 50 muzzle velocity. Not to mention other benefits&potentially unfairness it would possibly give with such a speed.

    Give the NS weapon similar muzzle velocity then.

    in the response to the childish NC whining that simply doesn't stop and has no limits, Higby himself said on reedit that they cannot buff the NC any further because it would be unfair to the other factions.

    Dear lord what would happen of any one would start complaining about the childish Vanguard shield, like others said before.

    Cmon man, this is BS on a epic scale. Not to mention the Tray armor farse that other out lashed, mostly on reedit.
  7. salembeats

    The TR is getting a weaker, burst fire version of almost any NC rifle (high DPB, high recoil, small mag) -- with horizontal recoil thrown in. Dunno what's so "monster" about that.

    The NC, on the other hand, is getting a stronger version (more damage, faster moving) of a VS gun (no bullet drop) in the Railjack.

    The VS are getting the only real "unique" gun.
  8. ISKNausicaa

    A 'rifle' in the hands of an infil :)
  9. salembeats

    ... I'm not understanding what you're getting at.

    A rifle in the hands of a 900 HP class is how I'm interpreting it.

    Infil staying uncloaked at medium range long enough to kill another class = dead Infil, unless target is absolutely horrible (in which case, anything would kill him).
  10. salembeats

    Right now, it's not a sidegrade. It's a downgrade.
    • Up x 2
  11. ISKNausicaa

    Your opinion differs from mine, like i asked the others, what is it you would change and how do you feel it would be balanced against the other TR infil weapons?
  12. salembeats

  13. ISKNausicaa

    My opinion differs from yours in that i believe the TRAP is in a decent place right now, I'm asking you to put forward a convincing argument that would get me to shift my opinion.
  14. S7rudL

    They certainly do. But not many like to be on the receiving end of it.

    Such weapon was present on CSSource, the Krieg 550 Commando aka the auto sniper.
    There was almost no server that allowed such weapon to be purchased freely, servers often restricted it to 1 person per team, even so that was usually the AWP.

    So the weapon was practically non existent even tho that the game developers added it to the game.

    My opinion on ideal ESSRs can be found here:
  15. salembeats

    Not gonna happen. Your opinion is set.
    I could show you evidence that the sky appears to be blue, but it won't make a difference if you've already decided that it's green.

    My "argument" is for you to try this out in a live-fire situation, as I have, rather than firing at stationary dummies at predictable ranges.
  16. ISKNausicaa

    My opinion isn't set in stone and can be shifted, at the end of the day all i care about is balanced weapons

    I did use the trap, and had it used against me in live fire yesterday, i witheld that due to the simple fact that every scope outside of IRV and X6 us bugged atm, kind of skews the test results.

    That being said i did enjoy using it, the only snag i found was making sure i was in the right mode for the right encounters.

    fun fact, it seems on live in the PTR the Railjack doesnt have access to the straight pull attachment.
  17. salembeats

    I couldn't get Straight Pull Bolt attachments to show up unless I was in VR. Explains why everyone was seeing it when I wasn't (I don't usually go to VR on the Test Server).
  18. salembeats

    The HSR does a better job at the TRAP's effective range, and doesn't even need to be switched to the "right mode".

    Your reward for the skill required to land each bullet of the 3-round burst on a live target is... Basically the same TTK as landing a single HSR shot.

    Hitting with only one of the bullets is a curse, as it gives away your position (something Infiltrators do not want!) while doing very little damage in return.
    • Up x 1
  19. DrTeeth

    I've been doing some more testing this evening. I think I know now what's putting me off the TRAP - it's the two round burst. The concept is (I'm assuming, from what the devs have said) for the rifle to be a kind of "super" SABR for Infils but the way they have implemented the two round burst is completely different!

    With the SABR you get a 0.75 first shot recoil, and then a normal second shot recoil. This puts the first and second rounds close together, with a mild recoil after the second shot, allowing you to chain together multiple bursts in close succession around the same point of aim. The recoil is also straight up which helps. The SABR also has a nice high rate of fire so the bursts are fast as well as precise, giving high DPS.

    With the TRAP you get ZERO recoil after the first shot. The gap between where the first and second shots land is therefore very small - the result of bloom only. However, after the second shot you then get DOUBLE FIRST SHOT RECOIL. This huge recoil after the second shot makes it very difficult to chain together multiple bursts on-target at decent ranges (40m +) especially when trying to track moving targets.

    Oddly enough the three round burst is a conventional affair, applying normal recoil after each shot, meaning you can string three shot bursts together much more easily with a constant adjustment of aim down and to the left. I'm having more luck with the three shot burst at medium ranges because of this, even though the spread is greater.

    So, this isn't a SABR. The two shot burst is functionally equivalent to using a semi-auto sniper rifle in terms of recoil, except that burst, though very tight is still too imprecise to compete with a semi at even low/mid ranges like 40m. Also, the effective DPS of the rifle is also lower than SOAS a ranges below 40m. This rifle fits into a niche so tight as to be effectively non-existent. Not to mention the rifle has the lowest DPM and damage per loadout of any primary weapon in the game.

    So.. solutions. SOE can go in two directions here:

    Option 1 - SOAS Sidegrade: Remove the two round burst, make the default mode the three round burst. Keep attachments the same, increase damage per loadout to be equivalent to the SOAS (32000+).

    Option 2 - Super SABR: Remove the three round burst. Reduce the recoil after the second round to the standard second shot recoil, like the SABR. Make recoil balanced, reduce stand-moving ADS COF. Remove close-range attachments like the laser, IRNV, 1x, 2x. Increase mag size to 20. Increase damage per loadout to be equivalent to the sniper rifles (28000+).

    Either way would work, at the moment we have a mish-mash that isn't working imo.
    • Up x 1