Aside from bug fixes the Phoenix is perfectly viable... it's almost overpowered in its current form due to its over the horizon capability. You can throw out DPS numbers and whatnot about it so long as it can fire from impunity. If you don't believe me, you've never gone up against it. It's also been my experience that shooting a missile has almost never actually stopped it from hitting me. As far as I can tell, all shooting a phoenix missile does is cause it to curve off slightly, no matter what weapon you do it with.
i have redirected them with concentrated skyguard fire, but that also means i am no longer fighting aircraft like i should. i am effectively removed from the fight by a single heavy i can't see and an ammo pack.
I know someone who's auraxiumed the Striker, post nerfs. Just because it performs terribly doesn't mean that someone will not like it enough to auraxium it.
And they are prolly one of 3 who have actually managed to do it. Te Striker performs terribly AND no one likes it enough to Auraxian it. After all, why would you? what does it offer thats better than the Annihilator? I have never met someone who has Auraxianed the launcher, its rarely used and is a joke amongst our empire I drive into a base though amd the sky is full of whistle missiles though. Its popular, unique and kills often. Underperforming isnt even really applicable to the Phoenix, it has no competitor, its a niche gun with its own ability. Same for the Lancer. The Striker on the otherhand DOES have a competitor and its called the Annihilator. The reason we are annoyed is because the Annihilator is BETTER than our ESRL. So you and VS both have your unique special launcher AND a better Striker. Its really frustrating when people complain about the Phoenix because it is SUCH A USEFUL GUN regardless of performance.
I own both the standard and aniversary editions of all ESRL's. I like them, but they all need some retuning. That is the whole reason for this thread. I know the striker is pathetic and junk, I own two of them. The lancer actually performs better than any of the other three, but the Phoenix is just plain fun. That's why we have more data on it. It's popular because it's fun, even though it's bad (It's got far worse stats than any other ranged launcher in the game, as we get killed constantly unless we're in a saferoom). Yes, the striker needs a total revamp. I said that already, so why are you arguing the point further?
How much experience do you have with the Phoenix? How many hours use, how many kills, how much XP have you earned with it? I am curious if you actually know what you're talking about, or if you're just another know-nothing fool talking about a weapon you barely know of yelling "It's killed me before, nerf now!" like so many others. I've been shot at with the Phoenix WHILE on my VS and TR hundreds of times, and not once have I been killed by it in a vehicle. The one and only time I've ever been killed by it was in a max suit at 1/4th health and the heavy fired it from 5m in front of my face. You can shoot it down 100% of the time if you know how it handles and have seen where it's coming from. It's exceptionally easy.
No i havent killed as many with the launcher than you oh mighty phoenix lord as I have only 64 kills with it blah dee bloop you must know best. But I have fired over 700 rockets with it so I like to think i know what it can and cannot do, its the only launcher i use on my NC alt (names Rekinator, though my bro has comandeered it so I apologise for the K/D) The launcher is fine. You still havent stated what changes you would propose. Atm I think NC are the only faction that doesnt think the Phoenix is the best of the 3 ESRL. No its damage isnt exceptional, and it can be shot down. but thats the price for a camera guided launcher. At least you dont have lock on times. Can hit infantry and turrets, one hit manas and arent affected by smoke or flares, nor do you need to remain within LoS of a target to hit it, and take down ESFs in one rocket. What more do you want? Phoenix is great, any buff will just see it get nerfed into the ground.
I'd probably leave the Phoenix and the lancer where they are, they both perform uniquely enough and well enough that I think their fine, yeah you could tweak them but overall eh. The striker needs to be scrapped and reworked.
The Phoenix has a reload time of 4.7 seconds. Now you add flight time to that (As you cannot reload while flying). This gives you a set of "Short" and "Long" reload times. Flight time can be anywhere from 0.1 seconds (Firing and hitting "E" immediately to exit, which is used almost exclusively for "dumbfiring"), to a max of about 7.5 seconds. This means it has a reload of 4.8 seconds to ~12.2 seconds. Personally, a reload of over 12 seconds to me seems ridiculous. Add an ESF's afterburner to the phoenix missiles, and you could actually hit your targets at range within a flight time of about 2-3 seconds, rather than 7.5 seconds. On top of that, you can consistently shoot down a phoenix missile with only 1-3 shots from a basilisk. All you have to know is what it's max turning radius is, and some experience with how the missile feels to control. I have on one occasion consistently shot down the missiles from a phoenix with the M40 fury on a harasser several minutes while taking the old northern most sub-base on Ikanam Biolab. The point is, the missiles are horribly predictable. All you need to do is know how the missile feels to pilot. It's terribly limited in it's turning capability, and should at least be able to keep up with the turning radius of an MBT. Currently, it cannot even keep up with, much less out-turn, a stock sunderer or galaxy.
Over the horizon rockets. You're crazy if you think this thing can get a buff and still be at all fair. And most of what you've said regarding shooting down phoenix missiles have been completely at odds with my own experiences so unless you can provide evidence I have to conclude that you're either wrong or lying.
The problem is that if you increased the turning radius even more than effective cover that vehicles can use will be diminished even further. when the whistle missiles start firing, every vehicle has to press up against the rocks they are hiding behing in order to avoid them as it is. I think the reason they wont improve turn speed is because there will truly be no place to hide from them. The long reload is a pain but phoenix's stack really well, so when you have a squad or even platoon using them, its just a constant stream of camera guided rockets. Shooting down 1 is easy but shooting down 5 or 6 at once? not so much. The launcher is very popular, decreasing reload speed would just make it hell on earth. Same goes the Lancer but as will all other launchers, you can actually hide from them incredibly easily.
Used Phoenix and have gone against it. Its a pretty weak RL except for when you are using it inside spawn rooms. If there is someone who is watching out for those rockets, he has a fair chance of shooting the rocket as the user has on hitting him. Think it's easy to get infantry kills with the Phoenix? Try it yourself. It has nearly no splash damage, so even if you miss by an inch you practically did not get closer to killing the target since you still need 2 direct hits to take him down. Shooting a phoenix should stop the rocket from hitting you, since it practically makes the rocket go in circles and land somewhere random.
The same can be said for any rocket launcher. Everything is powerful in groups. Even if you're a heavy, if you're fighting 4 stalker cloak infils with only their pistols, you're still fighting 3-1 odds. If they are worth anything, they'll beat you. You cannot beat focus-fire, no matter the weapon. That is no reflection on the Phoenix. The Phoenix just exchanges range (Having a tiny range of less than 300m, rather than the range of most lockons which have ranges of +450m) for a different type of accuracy (Not even better accuracy, just different). Add to that the fact that you can fire and forget on dedicated G2G lockons, which allows you to fire 2 missiles to every phoenix.
Yes but regardless of any other rocket launchers stacking ability, my hidden sundy is safe from all of them. Cant say the same for the Phoenix. The Annihilator is fire and forget, unlike the Striker, you can fire 2 of its rockets to one clip of the Strikers. Regardless, if the Phoenix is really underperforming than it will recieve buffs in part 2 of the balance pass. If not, it will remain unchanged. Only time will tell.
And that's the whole point to the Phoenix. There's a reason I'm using the phoenix rather than a Decimator. I am trading being able to dumbfire and being able to OHK panic fire on infantry for the ability to fire around corners. I am not trading that for a +12 second reload, massive bug list, and the incapability to even keep up with a sundy when it decides to suddenly pull over. Even a stock galaxy, the "Skywhales" themselves, can out maneuver the Phoenix. It should be able to at least keep up with it's target's turning capabilities, seeing as how all the target needs to do is fire a shot or simply out-repair the Phoenix' DPS (A rank 2 engie tool can out-repair the DPS of the Phoenix at ~80m or further. And the rank 5 tool can out-rep it at ~40m thanks to the flight time adding to the reload time versus dumbfiring the Decimator or using lockons. That alone is ridiculous).
Well to be fair I think vehicles should retain the ability to dodge, outmanoeuvre. Buglists need to be fixed of course but that isnt a reason to buff it. As for the 12 second reload, how would you even change that? Reload whilst also camera guiding? That would be ridiculous, whos guiding the rocket then? That would be like reloading my pistol without even wielding it. Rapid reload after coming out of camera? Would give Phoenix INSANE DPS at closer ranges. Nothing can really be done about the Phoenixes reload time. If a skywhale couldnt outmanoeuvre a phoenix rocket, then no gal would stand a chance in NC territory. If the Phoenix was as good damage wise as a dumbfire or the turning ability of the Lockon launchers, there would be no reason to buy anything else.
