ESF Update Update

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kevmo, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. JesNC


    /tinfoilhat
    • Up x 1
  2. Razeroth

    As someone who mains infantry and occasionally went into the air for fun. The air game is pretty dead to me. The current lock-ons ruin any joy I had with it before. Part of that was dying to the more skilled players on Woodman. MACW, Fieldbishop, Battlebrot. To name a few off the top of my head. Then very occasionally winning and feeling good about it. It wasn't like there weren't plenty of lesser skilled pilots online all the time, because there are, especially on other continents.

    The problem with lock-ons in the air as I see it is that,
    A) Flares don't protect you long enough for it to mean anything.
    B) You can't take cover from lock-ons, even if you could, unlike G2G lock-ons which are fine because cover is everywhere and you have a chance of getting into it, there usually isn't cover for 200m+.
    C) There is no indication of where they are coming from or if they are in the air at all. I have a really decent headset with a good soundcard and with surround sound you can't really pick out where exactly they are. Especially if they aren't close. Tracers are a really big give away.
    D) The more skilled players now can just use the up close instant lock to get you down to 1/2 then attack you with their main gun. They use it as an addition rather than a main weapon. Meaning they have even more of an advantage.
    E) The damage done is just too damn high.

    Personally I think they need to sit down and decide whether it is a support weapon, and lower the damage, make the locks closer or make them more like the low damage missiles they talk about in the ESF change. Or make it a main weapon so that you can't take the rotaries or default guns a long side it. Although I do think it might be a bit OP with the afterburners.

    In the end though the other things need adressing, lock-on awareness from A2A, maybe a different lock on sound from ground locks. Even an arrow to where it is coming from so you at least have a chance.

    I am not one too run away from a fight in the air I know I am 99.9999% am going to lose but at least I know I have a chance. When I get locked and have no idea where it is coming from and am down to 1/2 health before you can say bingo bango. I have no chance. Not for the fact that there are more enemy players or that they are more skilled then me. But because the weapon is just so frustratingly unfinished and unthought out. Rant over.
    • Up x 3
  3. Kaale

    So could a heat seeking lock be broken by a quick flip past the attacker leading the rockets into their face.. that would make using them a risk / reward (will the rockets hit before that pilot can lead them back to me?)
  4. cCheers

    But..... but ..... its right there in the notes. How did you miss that?

  5. MGP

    Okay. I have just one question to ask...

    Where in all this huge pile of ESF discussions, suggestions and general ranting have you found that one little post that said "We just want more lockons"?

    Mind=blown
    [IMG]
    • Up x 11
  6. ImANoob

    so this is how i see air gameplay at the moment... its gonna die... and that seems to be what SOE want...

    • they reduced the nose gun damage v ground vech's
    • they made flak the go to armour after the nano change making lolpods useless
    • they gave a skyguard for 1SC during the sale over the holidays meaning everyone has one now!
    • the current lock-ons are cheap enough and now your adding in more that are easier to use???
    • it is nearly impossible to get away from a lock-on the way they are!
    so SOE have finally done it, they've killed airplay and for what? the little kids who ***** that they got lolpod'd while running across open ground, come on people someone who is in a freaking ESF and has paid resources for should have an advantage over ground troops who can respawn at no cost.
    this game is turning to **** because SOE listen to the cry babies that get killed once and come on here and *****, what these people dont realise is that they are actually making the game worse for everyone weapons should be getting buffed not nurf'd why make things ****ter to fit in with the other ****** weapons you have in the game??
    the only nurf's ive seen that have actually been needed so far has been,
    • the harrasser nurf which i think everyone can agree was horribly over-powered
    • the ZOE max which again was horribly over-powered but is now totally useless, they completly over nurf'd that
    • and the last thing was the striker which is now also totally useless
    one of the main problems with this game is there is no real progression, i mean come on if i play hours on end to earn 1,000 certs to buy a new weapon it SHOULD be better than the stock, but from what i can see most of the stock weapons are the best!
    there thats my rant over, im not a pro at the game so i may be wrong but to give people a little insight into me i play mainly TR on miller but i also have NC and VS alts.
    Peace Out,
    ImANoob
    TR - BR50 - Miller
    NC - BR32 - Miller
    VS - BR13 - Matterson
    • Up x 2
  7. Eclipson

    Sounds interesting. Don't want to make final judgment until I get to do some tests when they come to PTS, but if Cyote missle are anything like active radar in BF4, and those things are put into this game, then I will never fly an esf again in PS2.
    • Up x 1
  8. McToast

    More lock-ons.

    Yey...:cool:
    • Up x 1
  9. S7rudL

    ESFs and air in general is complete cra*. For an average player the fight lasts as long as an insect on a wall ready to be annihilated.

    ESFs should have the duration and resistance of a Galaxy (that's a little overboard) and an reduced dmg output against ground targets to compensate.

    I can spend hours in an tank as an average player (and kill stuff to) but in an ESF I get ****e* instantly&permanently by contestant lock ons, anti flak, even tanks can shot you down.

    L2p? No! ESFs feel ultra hard core mlg pro only, neglected and unbalanced.
    I use it for nothing else than transport.

    All I want to do is last longer, fire my guns a little and receive some also. Not necessarily go on killing streaks.
  10. Cindil

    Wait... what? I... huh?

    More lock-ons!?

    And a nerf to hover thrusting?

    Are you frelling kidding me with this? This a joke, right? Right?

    There aren't words to express the level of disappointment.

    If this is the direction the air game is headed, I won't be along for the ride.

    Just... wow.
    • Up x 7
  11. Shifthold

    Yes, i have seen the "Balancing for skill" video, thanks you for rephrasing that, and i dont agree with it all, not for the noobtube and even more not for PS2s airgame to which, imo, it doesnt apply.

    The "classical argument" nails it pretty much. Observe others or even better watch some Ace´s videos of how to fly and lead your shots, train a bit, maybe in VR, maybe ask one of your servers better pilots to test in VR what you just saw in the videos. You shouldnt be able to kill the best players just by pulling one cheesy, totally broken weapon. If you dont want to train a bit you will have no fun or success with any game, may it be chess, any RTS game or any sport. If you dont have the will to get good at something you probably will stop doing it anyway soon.

    "These beginner weapons are intended to help new players contribute to a game (low skill FLOOR), while not negating the skill advantage of veteran players (high skill CEILING)."
    And here lies another problem with this weapon(s): It isnt like in your example a weapon which deals less damage, it deals more damage, and, in the hand of an ace will ruin the challenging aspect of the flying game as there is no more skill required, just who locks on first, thus completely lowering the skill ceiling to having that weapon and thats it. Game broken. Thats why all aces hate this weapon, it destroys the challenge.
    Also you wont get good with noseguns if you constantly use that weapon as a crutch because you refuse to get good at something and just want that good feeling of having gotten some xp.

    Furthermore this applies even less to PS2 since this is a huge game where you can train while staying near your platoon/base/antiair/defending/picking off lonely attackers and get out more as you get more confident. Or, you know, just fly in an airsquad, although thats not really my thing.
    • Up x 3
  12. Gleerok


    THANK YOU, but:

    "As dodge-able as other lock-on rockets"

    I'm not sure if that is practical, because, unless G2A rockets receive changes too, I don't remember being able to dodge them effectively or run away from them, I guess I am a crappy pilot perhaps?

    Anyone has a comment on that?


    Also, the heat seeking coyotes and "omnipurpose A2G/A2A" tracking missiles seem VERY convenient and plausible. I'm glad they are coming.

    A2A Tomcats missiles still bother me though. I think their damage should be lowered, lock time increased, and be made more dodgeable than other lock on rockets as they are "shoot and forget" and it seems you want to keep it. You'll see in your numbers that kills with tomcats will increase and that will be a proof they are overpowered, their use has already been increased to outrageous, ridiculous, amounts.

    Tomcats will be long range missiles "shoot and forget"? OK, they still CAN be balanced:

    Increase current lock time and increase it even more if targets are "too" close.

    Damage decrease to ~22%

    Dodge in midair POSSIBLE but difficult, unlikely, but NOT based in exploits on the game engine.

    Less ridiculous tracking AI that will hit buildings and obstacles (including mountains), that kind of goes to G2A lock ons too.
    • Up x 1
  13. Gleerok


    G2A Isn't exactly dodge-able, which definitely is NOT necessarily a bad thing FOR GROUND TO AIR, and NOT AIR TO AIR.

    Dodge possibility for G2A can be very low, but dodge possibility for A2A should be much higher.

    G2A are infantry based and in areas where you know you'll be hit, you can use flares and go away or wait and be spammed. Or receive lock warnings and go away before its too late, although you'll most likely get hit anyways because they are quick to lock, unless you are flying high.

    A2A is not infantry based and is mounted on a vehicle that can go as fast as you can therefore can have more chances and more frequency to lock and shoot lock rockets at you, UNLIKE G2A that has, most times, a considerable small window of "fire" lock, therefore calling for the necessity of a higher, much higher than A2A Missiles, post-fire accuracy.

    Lock ons A2A are not G2A, they are situationally different and should be treated different, not saying they can not be compared, yes they can, but should be treated differently.

    A2Am need to be more dodge-able, way more, than G2A rockets.
    A2Ams, considering the situations and positioning on which they are used, should have a much smaller post fire accuracy than G2A rockets.
    • Up x 2
  14. Gleerok


    I think they are plausible if they have a very small and very close "tracking" distance, almost like rocket pods that turn towards the target slightly if you shoot a little bit off. If you tried rocketpodding a moving ESF you know how hard it is, Coyotes would just be the specialized A2A version of them, having a slightly better accuracy by "tracking" AT CLOSE range and only responding to CLOSE shots.
  15. Gleerok


    :T ESF and overall vechiles on the map marking squad numbers would be helpful.
  16. Hiding in VR

    I am new to the game and am trying to learn to fly, so I hope my opinions are of interest.

    Firstly I am interested in hearing more about what you mean by "More interesting Air-to-Air Game play"? Are you talking about tactical engagements or about air combat? Reading between the lines it seems like there is something over a Hover-Nerf on the cards, is that intentional? I haven't gotten anywhere near mastering hover manoeuvres in this game but that doesn't mean I would be happy to see hover-dogfighting removed.

    Improvements to the HUD will certainly help new pilots, but not if they come at the expense of other certification lines! The things you have talked about in your post sound like they should be part of the basics to me. I fear your plans for Engagement Radar will backfire and will be great for the skilled air-hunter and a handicap for newbies if we have to pick them over flares or nanites.

    I can only echo the surprise of others at seeing more lock-on missiles, and doubly surprised at the A2G lock on. I see no need for that at all.

    Lastly, if you really want to help new pilots take to the air then I think you should concentrate in fixing/enabling proper joystick controls. No other single change would do more to help encourage people to learn to fly.
    • Up x 2
  17. Nexus545

    Can't wait for that mentioned Galaxy update :D
  18. namd3

    Reading some of these posts, some of you air jocks need a reality check, the Air game is dominated by so call "expert pilots" who don't want things changed, you see change as a threat to your dominance the Air 2 Air missiles levelled the playing field a little bit. it put the focus on hunting in packs which is good, its a team game, lone wolf killing machines will troll about A2A alday no matter what SoE do to it.

    lock-ons are hear to stay, the proposed changes sound fair.


    Deal with it.
  19. cCheers

    The fact that these aim-assisted weapons can out-damage traditional weapons is indeed something that should be adjusted. On this we agree. But now we are talking just numbers, not the weapon idea itself. This a matter of balance, not an inherint flaw of aim-assisted weapons.

    This is actually a decent argument, and I agree. An addtional beginner nose-gun could help alleviate this problem. A very rapid firing machine gun with a large spread might help here, though careful consideration must be made that it does not become too powerful at close range.

    As for the training there must be made a huge distinction between contributing and being good.
    Everyone needs to train to be good. This is logical and I will not dispute that. You need to train damn hard to be among the elite, as it should. So far the game provides those things for pilots. There is a clear skill progression in the higher eschelons.
    But, nobody should train just to be able to contribute. Nobody should have mandatory training before he/she can have fun at flying. Not many people are willing to sit through video lessons just to start playing a game. They'll most likely simply start playing another game. They want to have fun, not follow lessons. You're discouraging a great many players and that is something very important in this game.
    Training to become good/better/elite is good. Training just to play, not so much.
  20. crissHill

    Just another example that SoE has no clue how to make this game better.

    Only way to fix Air is to remove ESF A2G capability, we already have the liberator for that. Remove all G2A lock-on missiles, we already have the skyguard and bursters for that.

    But oh well, RIP PS2, you've already failed so hard on all aspects it's time to say goodbye.