ESF Suggestion

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Wolfborne, Mar 20, 2019.

  1. adamts01

    Air's pathetic state is the main reason I don't play this game. I just don't want to get in to a debate with Demmigan. We've all heard and said the same things for years.
  2. TR5L4Y3R


    yupp and it just got a bit worse ...
  3. Demigan

    The AA/air problem is unique, but they are barking up the wrong tree. It's not about the amount of AA weapons. AA has the least variation and is the least pulled weapon type in the game so it can't be how many there are. The problem lies in their mechanics. So rather than go "but so much AA now we'll nerf the lot into oblivion" we should be looking at "AA has certain unwanted properties, let's change those for the better".
    On top of that we should be looking at improvements for both aircraft and the user.
    • Up x 1
  4. Wolfborne

    Let's pull the discussion back to the OP: there are three air frames, but, only one gets used most of the time due to flight mechanics. Let's broaden that and give people more options so that they are not pigeon holed into one flight model.

    1. The hover frame gets a better air brake, faster pitch up/down, and stable hovering ability, but is the slowest in speed
    2. The dog fighting frame gets a better turn radius, yaw / roll, and is slightly faster than the hover frame
    3. The racer frame is the fastest thing in the sky, and can't be caught even if the others are running Quick Recharge Tanks, but, comes at a price of having the worst air brake and widest turn radius

    Three styles to choose from with pros / cons for each.
  5. Brooder69

    Another attempt to nerf air. This suggestion is utter garbage and does not benefit anyone rather it asks for a nerf something that is already easily counterable.
  6. Wolfborne

    How is my suggestion an air nerf? Hover frame would not change from its current role. It still receives the best air brake, pitch, and hover ability. You would fly it as normal. My suggestion simply gives the other two air frames an actual role and use, which would expand the air game.

    Let me guess...you are some type of sky knight and don't want any other type of flight model? THAT is utter garbage!
  7. Demigan

    Ah, good of you to show the biggest problem with the air-game: It's current users.

    Wolfborne just proposed pure buffs to all 3 aircrames. Hover does better airbrake and pitch up/down, dogfighting gets a bit more speed and faster turning sideways, racer becomes the fastest and is the only one with a nerf to it's braking.

    But this all amounts to "utter garbage and doesn't benefit anyone"? This is all "another attempt to nerf air"?

    The problem isn't just with the aircraft, it's users like you who will do anything to keep the status-quo, afraid that any change to make the airgame better could topple their throne as the "one-size-fits-all" type of gameplay would disappear.
  8. adamts01

    Do you fly much? Even after your adjustments, absutely no one would use dogfighting. Roll is enty fast on all frames. Yaw at a low sensitivity is still the hardest thing to aim with, but critical to use while aiming. Increasing yaw to a useful maneuvering speed would make that fighter worthless for shooting. It simply enhances worthless stats.

    If anything, make racer's speed much faster, and let dogfighting buff the aircraft to half of hover's ability, and half of racer's ability.

    If you made those changes, you'd absolutely see all 3 frames represented.

    But.... It still won't get anyone flying. Won't fix any air/ground problems. Won't give aircraft a role. And it'll likely only affect 1% of all players. I'm not convinced any changes to air short of a compete overhaul would be a good financial investment.
  9. Wolfborne

    Yes, though mostly Valks and Libs. Sometimes I take up an ESF, but, that's not to say I don't have a lot of hours in them over a two year period. I can hold my own, unless it is a sky knight. Even then I take them to ~50%.

    I have thought about the dog fighting frame and its role. Putting in the middle of the other two still makes it gimped. It won't out maneuver a hover frame, and it won't catch a racer.

    Another proposal, and one that would put the focus on two flight models instead of three, is to just remove the dog fighting air frame completely. Anyone that purchased it can get a refund. Let there be two flight models:

    1. Hover: best air brake, best pitch up and down, smoothest hover ability, but slower acceleration, shorter afterburner, lower top end speed.
    Base speed - 225 kph
    Top speed with afterburner - 275 kph
    This still makes it faster than Galaxies, Valkyries, and Liberators.

    2. Racer: best acceleration, fastest top end speed, longer afterburner, but worst air brake, harder to pitch up and down if going full throttle, and getting into hover mode takes longer.
    Base speed - 300 kph
    Top speed with afterburner - 375 kph
    This makes it the fastest thing in the sky, and it can't be caught by a hover ESF with Quick Recharge Tanks (QRTs).

    Two distinct flight models which keeps the hover fighting that so many like to do, but also adds a traditional jet fighter model that many will be used to, that does not have to worry about a hover ESF "running it down and forcing it into a hover fight." Currently, a hover frame with QRTs can run down a racer that does not have them. That is just...wrong.

    Players can pick which one they prefer. The hover model is for hover / dog fighting, while the racer model uses the hit and run tactic. A hover frame won't catch the racer, but the racer won't out maneuver the hover. That is a win / win for those wanting to fly!
  10. Silkensmooth

    So many things to fix that have priority ove this. I just flew all over on 3 servers. Connery, Miller, and Emerald and saw 3 enemy ESF.

    I saw a couple friendlies too.

    Why spend time, and probly introduce bugs to flying, when no one flies except when air has a role during air alerts?

    Wolfborne said;
    Players can pick which one they prefer. The hover model is for hover / dog fighting, while the racer model uses the hit and run tactic. A hover frame won't catch the racer, but the racer won't out maneuver the hover. That is a win / win for those wanting to fly!

    Its already like this.

    How about fix the fact that you can fly anywhere without getting hit by flak and locks?
  11. Brooder69

    Its not a nerf ?? you are blatantly asking for reducing afterburner speed on hover airframe while the speed is needed as to engage ground targets and get out of range. Let me guess , you are farmed by air so you say you want to make esf more diverse while in reality you are asking to nerf hover airframe so we don't farm ground anymore and by ground i mean you.
  12. Silkensmooth

    Its unfortunate that you see more tankers in ESf threads than anyone. they are terrified that their counter might actually be able to counter them again and they wont be able to sit on hills and farm in a kilometer wide no fly zone provided by a solo ant and a solo harasser and a heavy with a lock on launcher.
  13. Wolfborne


    Feel free to use racer for engaging ground targets and getting away from them FASTER.
  14. Wolfborne

    Ground locks don't lock above 350. A solo ranger does not destroy air. If you get killed by said ranger, then you are just bad.
  15. Wolfborne

    As stated, feel free to use racer to engage ground targets and have MORE speed with which to get away from them. It sounds like you just want one air frame that is the be all, end all, do it all. No thanks. Let's have some diversity and options.
  16. Lee Weldon

    Do people actually run the QRT's? I was always under the impression that the high-capacity fuel tanks were superior and the external fuel tank if you enjoyed the best of both worlds. Though I'd love to see some new options for those who love to run breaker pods but like hate being inferior to every other plane in the sky. Maybe a gun with slightly less AOE splash that also charges your fuel by 50% or something.
  17. LodeTria


    QRT are very good for dodging in A2A combat, since it recharges so fast you can use boosters more often to put off your opponents aim. You'll also almost never be out of juice with smart boosting, and if you do run out of juice it doesn't take long to get it back.

    Big Tanks whilst the long boost is nice, once you use it, it's gone for awhile which isn't very desirable.
  18. Lee Weldon

    But the same could be said about having the the 220% bonus to fuel capacity, it's very hard to run out of fuel even with the stock standard external tank if you save your fuel for the battle more often. I often just get caught out if I accelerate to a map without saving any fuel. I read a forum somewhere stating that the recharging one only became better once the fight extended for more than 90 seconds or something crazy.
  19. Wolfborne

    Yes, as they are the best option to remain highly mobile. I have flown enough and conducted enough tests to know that if you have two racer air frames, one with QRTs and the other with High Capacity Tanks (HCTs), the HCTs will eventually run out of juice and it takes a LONG time for them to recharge. Meanwhile, the QRTs will eventually run down the other aircraft because of their fast recharge rate. This, of course, is in a pursuit scenario.

    If you are talking about dog fighting where you want to frequently change your pitch, and have the ability to reverse more often, then the QRTs are vastly superior.
  20. Wolfborne

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