[Suggestion] Entry-level fighter, please? (ESF cost too much for rookie pilots)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Zak Preston, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. Zak Preston

    It's literally impossible to learn to fly on live continents: 1000 and one more deaths await for newbie pilots like me after a minute or two after taking off:

    • 1. constant G2A lockons
    • 2. skyguards
    • 3. enemy BR-120 ESF pilots
    • 4. tricky terrain
    • 5. sometimes the concentration of AA turrets is embarrassingly high (Tawrich area @ Indar)

    So my problem is that I usually don't last longer than 2-3 minutes in the air and most kills I get are usually thanks to ramming enemy ESFs. I've already spent days in VR training, but on live continents it didn't help at all. Obviously my certs\hour farm is negligible, I get no fun dying for seemingly no reason. I know the solution that works like a charm:

    • 1. Practice
    • 2. Practice more
    • 3. Did I mention PRACTICE?
    And here is a huge obstacle for me: I run out of certs in no-time, mening that after tuning myself to air combat I have to switch to infantry combat until my certs are back again. i'm completely fine with being killed constantly, I just want to be abl to return back to air ASAP.
    I thought I've found a cheap solution by flying valkyrie a bit:
    • It's much more durable than ESF => more forgiving to mistakes
    • Amazing handling, especially with hover chasis
    • it's CHEAP
    • Can provide valuable squad support if handled well
    The downside is that I need a gunner and literally none wants to fly in a coffin with such a newbie pilot like me. This alone completely negates all the benefits of the aircraft.
    TL;DR: ESFs cost too much for newbie pilots to learn and get into the air game.
    Possible solutions:
    • 1. a cheap and easy to handle fighter could be introduced:
      • 200 certs cost
      • 1 nose gun (weaker than any ESF's one).
      • more resistant to ground and structures collisions
      • should be cheap to upgrade
      • should have maneuverability and speed compared to Valky with hover chassis (150-170 km\h max)
    • 2. Allow Valkyrie to be effective solo:
      • A module that removes all passenger seats and fixes gun on a mount. Cheap and manageable Valky that can be effective solo is a dream of mine.
    an old suggestion pic for ultra-light ESF:
    • Up x 1
  2. CplRDaWiggy

    Koltyr and vr training dude. No need for more esfs, just head to the aforementioned and do what you need to do there.
    • Up x 1
  3. Pelojian

    the problem with introducing a low cost fighter is the same as it is with inbuilt engagement radar on ESFs, pros can benefit from them and if the cheap fighter is better then an ESF all the pros will use it.

    even if they reduced the cost of ESFs if you were bellow a certain BR, pros could still make smurf accounts to wreck you.
    • Up x 1
  4. Zak Preston

    It shouldn't be a better aircraft overall. It should be considerably worse for sure in all aspects but handling and perhaps some collision-proof mechanics. If an ESF is an equivalent to Lightning and Valk is an equivalent of Harraser, then the new possible micro-ESF should be more like a Flash.
    I don't mind being killed by better skilled players, I mind against really high ESF cost and it's long downtime. Even the pros will benefit greatly: they'll have much more targets to shoot and newbies will have less downtime anyway =)
    • Up x 1
  5. Halkesh

    The only way to make it better for new player is to improve skill floor while reducing skill celling for airplane. This pass by the removal of the reverse manever. Saddly I doubt a thing like this will happens since you will do is make skyknight angry and devs even more deaf.

    Changing coyotee to a nosegun (with improved effectiveness and/or improved rear armor) and giving it for free to everyone might help new player.
    • Up x 1
  6. Zak Preston

    It's not about advanced maneiuvers, it's about everything: situational awareness, aim with different types of weapons, loadouts, coordination, the knowledge of terrain and so on. It's a very complex problem and personally I can't get enough experience jut because I'm shut down too fast and withot mercy. I just have no time to learn on my own mistakes.
  7. LordKrelas

    Valk isn't a Harasser.

    A Flying flash, this invokes the thought of a grenade-cheap aircraft, that can be used to ram to death tanks for cheaper than it costs to spawn the tank -- Or that it'll follow the Lighting & ESF, same cost, one is blatantly superior.
    If you want a Cheaper ESF to practice in live combat, Go with Adam's idea on it.

    That involves a nose-gun only ESF, if I recall.
    With insurance that it can not ram to kill - since it is cheaper..

    We don't need a "Lesser" ESF, that is fully armed, hiding the high threat ESFs...
    You get focus fired hard by G2A, since you are the only kill they will get:
    And if you are a skilled ESF, they have only seconds to open fire before they are massacred - So no one takes chances.

    VR, Koltyar was mentioned earlier.
    Everyone on the ground has the same issue -- let alone the Pilots.
    Everyone has VR.
    A 'weaker' clone of an ESF is just easily abused, unless incredibly tailored.
    Not to mention, the ground can't afford Mercy on Enemy ESF's, do you know how lethal 1 ESF is?
  8. TheRatRule

    Yo wassup,
    Here are some flying tips,
    Listen... it is very easy to hear a nearby esf so learn the sounds of each this will help you great.
    Stay away from places with high amounts of aa turrets like tech plants
    Run stealth as it removes you from the engagement meaning you will have an upper hand on new pilot like you but aces will hear you
    • Up x 2
  9. Silkensmooth

    If you have a friend to practice with, you can go to the test server and improve at a very rapid rate by dueling each other.

    You can also fly with an air squad, there are lots of them.

    I agree though that there should be a stripped down, nosegun AB tank ESF for 150 resources so that more people will fly.

    ESF with nosegun are certainly no more dangerous to the ground than harrassers and those are 150.
    • Up x 2
  10. Demigan

    If the fighter is weaker than normal ESF's, then you'll have an even worse time as it takes longer before you can see any progress fighting enemies. If the fighter is stronger than normal ESF's, then the pro pilots will jump on this cheap plane and be much harder to keep out of the skies through repeated deaths.

    The only real solution is to lower the skill floor, and add a range of new skill ceilings that can be reached. As with everything else, it's much harder to master multiple maneuvers than it is to master a single one. So by adding a range of maneuvers each with their own skillceiling (and the ability to combine maneuvers for a new skillceiling) and you get people that are masters at different maneuvers. While the pro player might have more maneuvers he has mastered (in time), the average player still has a chance as he can be better at certain maneuvers, even if that chance is just the chance to escape which is currently not an option available to people.

    The skill ceiling can also be made nearly infinite without problems. People often go "but if you can get infinitely more power that's bad!", but skillceiling and power shouldn't go up 1 on 1. For example, one of the most skillful things to do with an nearly infinite skill ceiling is firing dumbfire rockets from the back of a moving Harasser at aircraft moving in a straight line at a random angle and height from the player but at 700+m distance. But despite the near infinite skill required to pull it off, the aircraft only has to do a small course change every X seconds to become absolutely immune to the attacks. By allowing players to switch to different maneuvers mid-flight and even combine maneuvers, you get a broad amount of skillsets and different outcomes to each battle where choosing the right maneuver can be as important as the skill to pull it off.
    The way to achieve this? First add the option to use different keyboard+mouse layouts to control your aircraft. Then increase the maneuverability options of aircraft so that normal flight maneuvers you would pull off in other games become actually useful, you can do this by increasing both the agility of each maneuver while simultaneously adding more inertia so that changing the direction of your maneuver takes more time. You could also allow things like giving ESF an omniversal afterburner so they can afterburn in any direction.
    But what about non-ESF aircraft? Those aircraft need new weapon sets and layouts to be able to deal with other aircraft, including the ESF. The ESF should only be good at A2A because of it's maneuverability, not it's firepower. The Valkyrie for example could get the option to swap out it's rumble-seats for pilot-controlled weapons designed to kill aircraft, or the Valkyrie could swap out the rumble-seats for two gunner-controlled turrets on the side that can be equipped with A2A weapons. Similar idea's could be used for the other aircraft, allowing all aircraft to fullfill an A2A role but using different methods and flight maneuvers to really combat eachother.
    • Up x 1
  11. Liewec123

    There isn't a good solution,
    If you make a cheaper esf (even if it deals less damage) the skynight Aholes will abuse it so they can always be camping warp gates and doing whatever other d##kish things they get up to, now without fear of death, because they'll just pull another esf and be right back.

    The only solution would be for the skyknight Aholes to stop being Aholes, stop ganking every esf that leaves the warpgate.
    But let's face it, skyknights will ALWAYS be Aholes.

    Their epeen usually makes them want to chase you to the ends of the earth for a simple gank.
    So Your best bet currently is to get extended fuel, racer and fire suppression, and always stay a short fly away from a safe zone
    (Warpgate, allied construction Base with skyshield and AA turrets etc)
  12. Zak Preston

    I definitely think that new ultra-light fighters should be proportionally weaker than ESFs. It would be really to achieve this due to the factors:
    • 1. Only one nose gun, preferably all variants should be general-purpose with some deviations to A2G or A2A aspects.
    • 2. Lower speed, something like 150-175 km\h would be fine. It will be much harder to disengage a combat.
    • 3. Higher hover stability and easiness to perform advanced maneuvers. Much reduced skill cap, much more newbie-friendly.
    • 4. The price around 150-200 nanites would be ideal.

    This way new light fighter is nowhere near as good as standard ESFs, especially the A2A ones, but allows pilots to master flight basics and increase their uptime in air significantly.

    @Liewec123 I'm even fine with being camped if I have means to pull out another ESF immediately after defeat and try to respond again. I just want to fly and learn.
    • Up x 1
  13. Zak Preston

    This would be an awesome solution, I really like Valkies (they are easier to control)

    Even 200 certs is fine by me.

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