Entire platoon rage quit from Phoenix spam

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Tanelorn, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Cowboyhomer

    I see what you are saying and I dont disagree but if I see guys running out from the same rock formation I am going to fly my rockets around that rock until I hit it. Maybe take me two more rockets than it does now but not much. All the people standing at the resupply screen would help find it too.

    All the sundy's I have hit with my new rocket launcher were not really hidden at all. They were just over the top of a hill in the open. I think the fault lies with people who just run up too fast and poorly place the sundy. I rarely spawn at one that looks like its owner truly tried to hide it. They are always just placed in the most obvious of places. Everytime i go hunt for a sundy it is right were I thought it would be.
  2. Colt556

    WW2OL had mobile spawns. They were just trucks that you deployed. However they were often hidden in bushes and whatnot. However the one rule that squad leaders ALWAYS gave "NEVER run directly at the city". Why? Because if the enemy sees an ant trail of soldiers coming from one spot, they'll trace it back an find your spawn. So squad members were always told to run to the sides before heading for the city, that way it helped keep the MS' location hidden.

    The same applies to PS2, and I'm sure in PS1 as well. Just because it's cloaked doesn't guarantee it wont be found, especially if you have a bunch of zerglings charging headlong at the enemy. But that's up to the players, game mechanics should not babysit them. The devs should give sunderer AMS' a cloaking bubble like they had in PS1 and call it a day. If players are stupid and basically broadcast "AMS HERE!", that's their problem. Has nothing to do with the AMS or the Phoenix or any other mechanic.

    Also, assuming they don't half-*** it like everything else, the sunderer cloak would be a bubble, so everything near it would be invisible as well. That's how it was in PS1. So people milling about would be invisible to those outside the bubble. If I remember correctly, though, the bubble was two way. So those inside couldn't see anything outside. So for all you knew there was 20 MBTs staring right at your AMS, but since you'd be in the bubble and they'd be out of the bubble, you wouldn't see them.
  3. Cowboyhomer

    I think the balancing of this stuff(nerfing) will balance back out when new features are added. They balance them for the game as it stands but if other things are added it can always be re-evaluated and balanced back or buffed. I think right now as the game is that my phoenix was pretty awesome and it allowed me to be much better than I was before I had it. Dont get me wrong, I loved it but I felt a little guilty pegging snipers with it :)

    I wont mind the nerf so much as long as it still works the same way. To me the fun was in using it and not in the damage it does. Chasing vehicles and infantry with my kamikaze aircraft is fun!!
  4. Colt556

    The problem with nerfing is that it's exceptionally easy to lower the bar, but impossible to raise it. Once players get use to the Phoenix being weaker, they'll never, ever allow for it to be buffed. Even if new features warrant it's buffing. So I'm in the camp that believes you shouldn't release a feature unless every other feature necessary is also ready. If it's going to be broken because you rushed it, it will NEVER work properly, ever. Because some things simply can not be recovered from.

    Personally, I couldn't care less. I don't use the thing. But it's the trend that I care about, since that trend is why I don't really play anymore. Everything gets nerfed into the ground and in the past 4 months the only substantial addition to the game has been...... ............... Well there has been no substantial addition to the game since the end of beta. Just lots of broken weapons that were nerfed into the ground after people spent their SC.

    Ultimately it's just very bad game design and as a game designer myself, it upsets me. But that's what happens when you have publishers rushing developers to churn out content that is nowhere near ready.
  5. Tanelorn

    For everyone calling Phx hate whining, you really need to appreciate that in certain situations they are incredibly powerful and can hold off a much larger force.

    1. There are few forms of cover that protect sunderers from a Phoenix
    1a. The bane of sunderers, ***** engineers and LAs, are most effective when a sunderer is parked right next to cover.
    1b. If a sunderer parks with some standoff to cover, the phoenix can curve into it
    1c. Sunderers must deploy within range of Phoenixes to be effective

    2. Phoenix users can fire from behind cover and can simultaneously scout and attack unexposed. This is very powerful when the enemy is unable to flank, such as in chokepoints and when blocked by hostiles. (i. e. The Traverse that night)
    2a. Direct fire (thats all we have at this point) can not counter Phoenix teams if they can't flank

    Phoenxes in groups create a 300m dead zone around the firing group, and if they cant be countered, that area is denied to the attacking force. It truly is a force magnifier and if the conditions are in favor of Phoenixes, they will simply make an attack by the opposing side impossible. The right thing to do was probably to avoid that location altogether, but up to this point that has never been necessary. With the Phoenix, now, sometimes the only way to win is to go elsewhere.
    • Up x 3
  6. Cowboyhomer

    Its a game...everything can be fixed. Look at WoW...things have been balanced, rebalanced and then even reinvented and no matter how much they do it still plows along. I dont see it as a problem....but then again I havent played today yet :)
  7. Colt556

    WoW is a prime example of how the bar can never be raised after it's been lowered. Vanilla wow had very difficult raids, complex dungeons, all that good stuff. But it was simplified, dumbed down. It never recovered. It was never raised back up to the challenge it once was. Games do this all the time. It's easy to dumb things down but players complain when the bar is raised.

    To be quite honest, if you seriously belief the devs will ever make PS2 into anything even remotely resembling Planetside you are quite naive. I may be cynical, but I am also a realist. For the past ten years companies have been doing this, I learn from history. The way they have handled PS2 thus far is just proof that they wont change, that it's just another repeat in a very long cycle.

    And it's the players that cause this. It's the players that ruin games. It's the players that turned Planetside from one of the most unique games in existence into a Battlefield clone. Because we buy it. We pay them. We pay them to remove all innovation. We pay them to make things so simple a four year old could do it. We pay them to churn out the same game every year. This is all on us, we, the players, are the ones to blame. We're to blame for the game being rushed out of beta months before it was ready. We're to blame for vehicles nerfed into oblivion. We're the blame for them churning out a new gun every week rather than actually fix the game. We are to blame for everything that is wrong with this game, and the industry as a whole.

    Because we do not learn. We tell ourselves "this time will be different". We tell ourselves "Oh it's only 4 months after launch, the devs will fix it in the future". We LIE to ourselves all the while throwing money at these companies. What incentive do they have to fix things, to make quality products, when we're paying them NOT to do those things?

    Let me ask you this, and give it some serious thought. If PS2 is making plenty of money just by shoveling out a new gun every week, what reason does SOE have to actually add real content, to fix real problems, things that take a lot of time, effort, and money. They're making a very handsome profit by throwing together stuff that a guy could complete in three days, in his spare time. So why should they bother seriously working towards the betterment of the game? They're getting paid regardless. This is the fundamentals of economics. Humans only work hard if there's a reward at the end of it. If they get that reward first, why should they work hard? They've already gotten what they want.

    So tell me, if you were Sony, would you bother shelling out thousands and thousands of dollars to get some real content in the game, or would you shell out hundreds of dollars to throw new guns in there and get hundreds of thousands of dollars profit from it? Because everybody with an IQ over 50 should know the choice that a corporation like SOE will make.

    TL;DR, SOE has no incentive to fix the game because they're getting rich anyways. And it's easier to lower the bar than raise it, because players will complain endlessly should the devs ever attempt to introduce actual challenge to the game.
    • Up x 1
  8. Zar

    ill give you that but at the same time it won't happen lol and it should not one shot people or my aircraft and tank should lawl shot to if we bring the *its a rocket* argument back.
  9. Colt556

    Your tank and aircraft should one-shot infantry too. Pretty much any explosive weaponry should one-shot infantry. They're bloody explosions. But on the flip side, infantry should have tools at their disposal to defend against such attacks. As I keep saying, all of these things can work if SOE didn't insist on half-assing every feature they implement. But then as you said, it wont happen. Doesn't mean I have to sit quietly as the devs continue to churn out stupidly broken and unfinished content, though.
  10. Jalek

    All infantry have the option of flak armor, but of course when HA go that route, as they should, they're subject to OHK by sniper fire.
    I think this is the right idea, giving choices some weight.
  11. Colt556

    I'd just like to see the PS1 balanced returned. Vehicles require specialization to even use, but are ALL very strong. If you're a random soldier you should FEAR enemy vehicles, because you have no way to stop them. Even dedicated AV players, like HA's, should require teamwork to take down an MBT. Conversly the maps need to be made to give infantry adequate cover so they don't just get farmed. Bases with interiors where tanks and aircraft can't reach. Plenty of trees to hide under and behind. Rocks. Ditches. In the open or caught by a tank, you should die. If facing a tank, even with cover, even with rockets, you should lose. Only time infantry should beat vehicles is when using the proper equipment and working together.

    PS1 attained that balance, vehicles were strong and scary, but it was hardly "tankside" or anything. PS2 needs to attain that balance as well.
    • Up x 1
  12. RaZz0R

    Also in PS1 one of the main counters for these were cloakers - in PS1 you didn't have a time to stay cloaked - you just stayed that way till you de-cloaked - yes you could fire a gun - but only hand guns, but you also had C4 and mines so you could go find the NC with their phenix and put it under their *** and blow them up!

    Here in PS2 world - you can't shoot while cloaked and you can't move across the fight cloaked because you decloak all the bloody time - removing the skill of cloaking and taking time to get to places. Now your found out because of the sounds the cloak makes. YAY for that... not!
  13. Eyeklops

    This is the reason AMS's should cloak when deployed.
  14. Zenith

    Well, I too am now guilty of joining the Phoenix spam brigade... and it was delicious. I can only imagine the tears and whine we induced on both vehicles and infantry. SC well spent! :D
  15. Bill Hicks

    People who ragequit over one weapon are probably the same people who will stay home, if the wind is blowing the opposite direction they are wanting to go.
  16. Zenith

    They're also the same people who will defend their faction's OP weapons to the death. I won't name names, but I think we all know who whines the most about who on here. ;)
  17. Wowbaggertheinfinate

    Lol his image is even a ScatMax
  18. XRIST0

    I have to agree , the phoenix ruined the fun of the game for the other factions .

    It was alot more fun without these stupid rocket launchers .
  19. Psaldorn

    FYI, you can shoot them down.

    Mine get shot down all the time.
  20. ARCStormtrooper

    I'm sure this has been said but what is to keep any faction from using their ESRL in such a fashion? If you can get an entire squad to agree to carry them, no platoon is safe! You can do that with ANY RL and probably be less vulnerable than with the Phoenix! Now i know how tough it can be when the enemy is dug in but in truth the Phoenix has nothing to do with it. Your platoon rage quit because you got your butts handed to you by an organized group!

    Bring in some Libs with Daltons to take pot shots at the NC line. No more Phoenix problem. It's not like they are carrying Strikers that can hurt ground and air.