Enforcer projectile drop.

Actually, a side armor shielded vanguard has more than double the effective HP of the other MBTs tanking face shots ( 10810 to 24000 ). Even without the shield, it has approximately 50% more HP than the other MBTs ( 10810 to 16000 ).
Even if the other two MBTs were to equip directional armor, their effective health would only rise to 12500, but you'll rarely see a magrider without stealth because "it's a flanking tank".
On top of all that, did you know that the Vanguard's top speed is also greater than the Magrider's?

Let me clarify some vanguard armor stats for you:
Standard maggie/prowler front armor: 10810
standard maggie/prowler side armor: 9523
maggie/Prowler with front armor: 12500
maggie/Prowler with SA: 12500

Std vannie front armor= 12500+shield=18750 EHP
vannie with extra FA: 14814+shield=22221 EHP
Vannie with extra SA: 16000+shield=24000 EHP

Prowler top speed: 71kph
vanguard/maggie top speed: 67kph

So you travel 4kph slower, but have roughly 50- ~100% more health than the other tanks and you are complaining? The vanguard is not a bad tank. You're just a bad tanker.

Racer 3 maggie moving forward and strafing in the intended direction will make 67kph

But will also lose the ability to fire at its target while keeping that speed.

I play in all three MBT variants, always as driver - however my Gunner is the same throughout too.

We always assumed that the differences are there to offset the individual characteristics of each Tank. I'm not going to run for the stats as others have, but in practise; it feels from my perspective as if each top gun (whilst not perfect) is a good fit for each vehicle.

I like how the Saron assists in the magriders somewhat cumbersome shell velocity by being accurate at range but also how its bursty nature matches well with the maneuverability.

I like how the GK is obviously designed as a buddy for the lockdown siege mode and is steady across the ranges because of how flimsy prowlers are at brawling or if they get caught out.

I like how the enforcer feels like a close range crush weapon. It doesn't make long range work too trivial (considering hits with the titan are quite decent already), as well as accounting for(and augmenting) the vanguards overwhelming presence in CQB (of which I assume the enforcers reload mechanic was designed to bolster further).

Its safe to say that the Vanguard was never meant to be a long range engagement powerhouse like the prowler. Yet in the mind of asymmetric balance, the changes that have happened to the game over the years (on all fronts); the fact that the VG is still awesome fun and a workhorse at what it does, is testament to how well these tanks were originally flavoured.

If only other empire specific things were as well thought out or developed.

In short, I think the enforcer is fine. Its my gunners favourite weapon (over the other two) and has limitations to prevent it stacking too readily with vanguards already great survivabiility. When we cross other vehicles - we decimate them. What more could you truly expect. <3 Vanny.

In Your previous post:

1. You took:

Enforcer DPS without reload process in spam of some time
GK general DPS without reload process but without time spam
Sarons DPS related to meters once agin without reload process.

Some tank fights last 8 seconds some dont and last longer.

Those are 3 different scales to compere 3 weapons. It is missleading.


2. You took individual situation not related to weapon effectinveness. Sorry to tell You but to tell full truth You have to include information about kind of bullet drop and lowering gun barrel. To Your information Enforcer have worst depreciacion from secondaries. It affects fighting from two sides of the mountain. You cant use bulletdrop to do the thing what you said. Someone perfectly took care about it.

Not mentioning about that and giving such example is missleading.

3. When You said about holding reload process You hide information that to do it, first You have to wait till once more bullet will be reloaded, then click to stop reloading process, then click once agin to fire. It take only moment less than waiting till the end reload process and You end up with empty clip. Someone perfectly took care about it.

Not mentioning about that is missleading.

4. Helbard usage in VS and TR is minimal and do not change more than 1%-2% in higher ranks. Helbard usage in NC is high, and higher in higher ranks, mainly because all Fraction Speciffic secondaries are that bad.

It was a strict lie.

5. We are talking about bullet drop. Which is terrible in Enforcer. It makes long range fighting with that weapon pointless, and give great advantage to TR and VS.(I think they also did something with acceleration of bullet, which makes that bullet drop even more intuitive).

The thing what You did was in fact changing the subject.


Because You didnt know some things and gave missleading information to others, the conclusion is simple. You do not have agenda to change Enforcer so it could match its counterparts.

Planetside2 lost circa 50% of its players within last 2 years mainly because of lack of taking care about new players.... but also because the gameplay is so unbalanced. Specially NC. If You want example look at Airhammer: First they nerfed direct damage to add indirect, and right now they nerfed indirect to balance everything out. Two small changes within couple of months, one hidden in large patch, and everything is in right place. I love it. Brilliant nert to the weapon. It is the same in every single patch, I do not know who is doing that but he is killing the game singlehandly. It is too sistematical to be accidental. Balance is the most important thing in FPS like Planetside2.

Fakly I do not care. If they do not want to have a game, they will not have it.

Sarons DPS is limited by the CoF as after x meters you have to wait for it to reset or miss
Enforcers DPS is limited by the severe drop on the weapon making it hard to hit anything over x meters
Gatekeepers DPS is limited by (answer on the back of a post card to SOE DBG Balancing Department, Dagda, Forseral, Auraxis).

Simple fix

Increase the velocity of both the Saron and Enforcer to 450m's and reduce the CoF (by upto 50%) for the Saron.

Let me clarify something for you.
I never said it was a bad tank, you simply spat HP statistics at me. I said the topgun was not as viable as other topguns for the intended role. I also said that HP is not a balance factor when you're a massive target for peck damage that all the other tanks can provide. The vanguard is the least mobile out of all the tanks, prowler has better acceleration, magrider has straight acceleration simply ignoring hills, vanguard has it worse when it comes to open field fights, aka bread and butter of the tank, but instead of contesting that you decided that I was bad because I didn't use an exact build the exact way you wanted and only used the vanguard shield which means I get the goodolde double HP every 45 seconds if I spend over 2k certs to max it out.

That front armor, only repels 1 extra tank shot from a prowler, making the 8 (tested on mag) shot a 9 shot, incredible, except peck damage from the topgun or a gust of wind could kill the vanguard on that last hit. Which would mean your entire HP balancing is based on the vanguard shield. So every minute or so, I'm allowed to fight a prowler; that makes no sense. But I suppose none of that is reliable info since I'm automatically bad because I disagree.

How much hp the vanguard has including the shield is irrelevant for this type of comparison since you are then comparing hp+utility vs hp alone and obviously hp+utility is better then hp alone.

As for speed its not the top speed that is the problem with the vanguard but the acceleration and the slow turns speed.

An last but not least comparing only hp is not a very good way of doing it.
Vanguards survivability comes from tanking shots while the magriders comes just as much from avoid getting hit in the first place and prowlers get part of their survivability from attacking from ranges where there enemies have a hard time retaliating effectively.

Long story short numbers alone don't tell the whole story.

If the vanguard is better worse or equal to the other tanks i leave to others to decide since i'm mostly an infantry player myself.

Yep. But for traveling its fine and combined with magburn its a non-issue. for me anyways. I arx'd the maggie and loved every minute of it... cept when I was arxing the Saron.

I look at overall balance of the tanks, and how if you give in one area you spill into others. I've been using the enforcer since it was a halberd look-alike in beta. fun fact magrider is a bigger target than the vanguard. In my experience I prefer piloting magrider and vanguard over prowler in open terrain.

If you don't cert out your tank you're going to lose no matter what... The enforcer has no bloom/cof so when you compensate for drop and velocity you will hit every time.

The enforcer works fine. Once again I run it on my vannie and have had no trouble dominating the other factions tanks. The weapon has higher dps as I stated before than the other two.

1. I didn't take reload process into account for the enforcer because in a standard tank fight the other tank will be dead usually after 8s. The vanguard will take upwards of 10s to kill.
The GK would have a lower dps if I calculated the reload yes. But this goes past the 8s timer so I don't count it in a std. 2v2 tank fight.
Saron 460dps does take the reload process is accounted for. Save for the long range 1s shots or bursts. These are harder to calculate but are up to the skill of the gunner, but for a roughly solid base rate for accurate long range fire will be .75s-1s between shots.
do this equation for the saron dps: ((dmg x 6) x rof)/60 should come out to ~460 unless I wrote the equation wrong

This is asymmetrical balance not symmetrical balance therefore you must measure thing differently.

2. I've used the enforcer to shell people that cannot return fire. You will have to be outside of their fire arc. Im not talking an arc like a mortar/artillery round but the arc you get is enough to hit targets behind cover. I do the same thing with the FPC on my magrider.

Im not trying to mislead you. Im trying to inform you.

3. This is usually by the time that the enemy tank is dead once again. Max out your reload speeds on your AP gun and enforcer and you will see less problems.

4. People use the halberd due to high alpha, the ES AV long range secondaries require exposure time to fire accurately, the halberd does not suffer this. On top of the halberd+alpha from the AP guns on the vanguard and prowler will instakill a lightning in the rear. Magriders FPC falls slightly short.

If you are going to be mid range brawling in the open the ES secondaries are the best bet. If you die at long range you're an idiot.

5. The bullet drop on the enforcer is the enforcers balancing factor. Otherwise the enforcer would have the highest dps and little drawbacks. Only drawback being not a very high alpha.


Trust me this isn't that big of an issue lol.

Sorry m8. You are changing the subject to avoid the one in the topic.

The subjest is: NC do not have long range Secondary because Enforcer's bullet drop is so bad that it is hardly possible to kill anything with it. Also depreciation of Enforcer bad (lowering barrel of the weapon).


Moreover You are taking one stat, then generalize on entire effectiveness of the tank. Sorry. That is not logical. You can have even twice more armout than that, and wont be able to hit enemy or enemy will hit You more than Your armour last. What kind of advantage will it give You?

Moreover You are avoiding like hell two difficoult subjects:

1. Shield is expiring after taking 2000 damage.
2. Shield is expiring after 6 seconds.

Sorry men. You are missleading everybody.

I wouldnt change velocity of Enforcer, just reduce bullet drop. You know why? Because Magrider bullet dodging would be useless if You will increace speed of Enforcer projectile, and I do not want unbalanced play. I want that Maggies will have their moments of glory.

Nope, vanguards can't "instant" kill lightnings from behind with the berd. Only prowlers can do that when the top-gun is a berd.
Mag-riders have to use the saron at close range if they want that "instant" kill from behind. This also appplies to non-composite harassers too.

Good Post.

I think alot of people are missing my point here. The enforcer is supposed to be the LONG RANGE variant of the nc. The fact that it preforms decently in close fights or arcs over hills is not what my topic is about. The topic is about the fact that a slower fire rate and serious projectile drop make it fail at THAT role. Any noob gunner can jump in the GK or Saron and nail 500m shots with ease.....good luck trying that with the enforcer. Add into mix the fact that your target moves and thus changes those ranges (and adjustments needed to meet them) and it takes a ******** of practice to hit even 8/10 rounds.

how the hell is it ok for only one empire only to have to compensate for projectile drop in this category?

Remove the drop and the enforcer would be viable, as it is now it is simply an inferior version of the halberd.

Consider this: in a TR or VS tank planning to attack from long range would you honestly take the halberd in over the saron or gatekeeper? Why not? (slow fire rate and projectile drop suck at range maybe?)

One thing:

He said this one:

I answered with this one:

He answered with this one:

Oh men....

And agin missleading... and in fact lieing.

Balancing factor in case of Enforcer are also: Low magazine size, unconvinient and long reload, low tier bullet velocity, (I am not sure about this one: lack of acceleration of projectile), low tier damage, lack of long range, hight bullet drop.

To many balancing factors, thats why it is so bad in comparison to other secondaries, if You do not see it, the I am sorry for You, because it is the main problem in the game. Specially with NC weaponry. TR and VS "balanced" NC weaponry too much.

The main essence of Your entire speach is that it has bo be worst than other secondaries, because otherwise it would be equal to other secondaries.

Sorry it is destructive to the game.

Halberd has better DPS at range and is better vs Squishies then the Saron which got buffed to be a close range burst fire weapon, so yes for the Mag.

Do I have it wrong that the lightning has 3k hp? With 0% resistance on the rear?

I don't use the halberd on my vanny I only use the enforcer ironically XD

edit: I also dont usually run a lightning so never bothered memorizing numbers for it.

To simplify a lengthy and tiresome discussion with someone who only just started tanking in Planetside:
git gud.

The average noob will likely not hit most of those shots with the GK to begin with. Arguably however the GK is still overpowered at very long range imho. But thats vs. both Saron, enforcer and halberd, not exclusively the enforcer. I for one would not like to see the enforcer turn into the GK. I'd rather the GK be brought into line with both. The only thing the GK really needs is bloom that way it requires burst fire over longer distances.

The enforcer though as I've explained only suffers one major drawback. Which is its drop. Which when utilized properly works in your favor. The factors that hold you back in the tanks disappear rather quickly when you use them more. If you want I can tank with you. I have a fully certed vanguard on Emerald and a decently certed one on Connery. Its easier to explain these things over voice chat without people coming in and saying Im lying constantly.

Also I have a fully certed, and arx'd for that matter, prowler and magrider on Connery and Emerald respectively. If you want to run with me in my tanks I can teach you a bit.

That invitation extends to everyone in the thread.

Rear armour according to the wiki is 32%.