End work on Lattice now before any more effort is wasted.

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by FrankManic, May 2, 2013.

  1. Foehunter

    I didn't think it was aimed at me. I did reread it after you said that to think of how the whole thing would play out if you had directed your comment at me. It seems hilarious in that case. :)
  2. UKAvenger

    If all servers and conts were filled with high populations, people played properly ie, not 'zerging' in one or two main directions at a time, all worked together with good communication, stayed in a base for a while rather than capping and picking one of 4-6+ targets from that 'hex' and moving on - then maybe the fluidity that is the current setup on the live servers ('hex system') would work better. I can see why people want this style of gameplay in an ideal situation. The situation is not ideal. Many months have passed to prove that. The 'zerg' effect is in part to blame for this, i thought it might die down a bit like it did at the start of PS but it hasnt.

    Pops arnt high enough, people dont work together enough, people move out to attack far quicker (general rapid speed of the gameplay) and because they move out, the territory they just took can be hacked again from one of a multitude of links. The map fluctuates too quickly.

    I can understand the idea behind the hex system but in practice it just doesnt work. The game needs to be slowed down and people need to be IN outposts/facilities (more so facilities/large outposts) for a longer period. Its all about ideal game flow based on populations and player behavior. Having enforced three way battles isnt healthy either. The amount of freedom the current system provides just doesnt work, cant you see it?

    So long as people continue to play like they do, the situation will continue. Your 'front lines' are vulnerable to attack from too many different locations (links), as are the enemies, however it is this very issue that combined with the dense grouping of people in one area (zerging) that is causing the problem. There are no equal spreads of population on both/three empires moving forward from their front lines to attack the enemy.

    Instead, round and round they go, chasing back hacks constantly along the way.

    The test servers lattice does of course limit the links available. This is a good thing because it gives the population less places to spread over. Less options to be = less places for people to be = higher chance of active defenses.

    What we see now, due to the mass links, large respawn options and non destroyable spawn tubes is people getting rolled over at one base, wasting all their time in the spawns before either: Spawning at the next and it happening again due to no time to prep or spawning at a different location (due to too many options) and the enemy rolls the next base anyway.

    Thats how i basically see it and my vision of what it could be like might differ from other peoples but i feel its correct for the type of game this is. All out freedom of movement just doesnt work, this isnt the military playing this game its normal people. Its not being dumbed down its being amended to better suit the conditions. No doubt some will always see 'less links' as 'dumbing it down'.

    It is not just how the bases are linked that can and do cause issues. It is the lack of other details that are i believe missing from the game to make it a more complex and more interesting game. Things PS has but PS2 doesnt for example.
    • Up x 7
  3. FrankManic

    Honestly - If your server can't spare two people to clear a ghost hack now, it's not going to be any better once all the zerg have been rolled into a ball and are chasing each other around one or two lanes. Lattice isn't going to fix your server population. It's not going to fix your lack of communication or unwillingness to cooperate. It's not going to fix the problems with Hex.

    A lot of these problems aren't mechanics, and mechanics can't solve them. Planetside needs a minimum critical mass of players to function. If it doesn't have that then trying to cram not enough players into rush lanes will just exacerbate things as the population imbalances become that much more starkly defined.
    • Up x 1
  4. VSMars

    Thankfully, the situation is not quite so dire. I'm one of those people - and I'm sure there are more like me - who has no problems with leaving a fight because there are ghost cappers to be stopped or guard duty to be done. I just wish SOE wouldn't have removed influence, since this makes ghost capping way too easy.

    Also, I follow orders. If my CO says I'm to be on guard duty in Nanite Pump Station while the front line goes between Hvar and Rashnu, Nanite Pump Station will be guarded.
  5. elkikko92

    In my opinion the cause of the problems is the "no metagame".
    • Up x 2
  6. Rockit

    Yeah I hear so much from people they are tired of the never ending TDM. There is little sense of lasting achievement other than for personal stats and that just isn't what Planetside franchise should be about. "For Land, For Power, Forever", remember that? Well certainly there can be no "Forever" but to come as close to it as possible is what I would desire. This whack a mole (albeit is less now with adjacency) is just not enjoyable for most. Just look at the steam pop graphs if you need more evidence. For cont locking they are waiting on lattice (as well as MANY other roadmap items) so SOE's commitment to lattice is strong and I applaud them for that. They have Malorn as a major driver for it's implementation so I am confident they will do it the right way for PS2. The other day in a stream chat Matt said they are rolling out one cont at a time and Indar is obviously first. There will be heavy scrutinization after it goes live and changes can be made as needed. What they learn from Indar will be used on the other conts then once that is all done comes Hossin, Cont locking etc. Bring it on!
    • Up x 2
  7. Mastachief

    The lattice is this games last hope.
    • Up x 2
  8. Hosp

    TLDR Version:

    Lattice is bad because of XYZ.
    The Meta-Game for Hex has already evolved.
    Don't take away my ability to ghost gens for uber XP w/o a fight.

    That's what I get out of this. And yes, I am being condescending about it. But I am because this is another thread where OP is all bluster and no substance, with the same few arguments every other naysayer has already mentioned. At the end of the day, he's just another 1 nay trying to oppose 7 yays of the Lattice.
    • Up x 2
  9. Ash87

    From what SOE sees, the lattice has overwhelming support.

    If you don't like it, vote against it, actually use the system, instead of whinging about it.

    Just not that difficult. If you can get enough people to support your point, undo the 500 gap (Which shouldn't be a problem according to some contributors) then it will get delayed indefinitely (A la' Orbital Strike).
    • Up x 4
  10. VSMars

    I prefer to do something else instead: Deliver constructive criticism and offer alternative suggestions.

    Clicking on the "like" or "don't like" button is fast, easy and the wrong thing to do. If you want your voice to be heard, you have to speak up.
    • Up x 2
  11. Ash87

    Here is the thing, your method will only work -so- much, if your vision for things is wildly different to what is currently in place. Posts about: "You know, just don't do it" I kind of feel sorry for, because agree or not, they get people Nowhere when there is only 10% of the vote -Against- something. That hints that the people against it are just a very vocal minority.

    The voting system is what SOE is going to fall back on, when it comes to these issues. They seem to want some kind of quantifiable Number, that they can point to when making decisions. This makes sense, as it means easy justification to a superior or what have you.

    If you just -don't- like the system, your better off voting it down right now, because you will need Wide support, we're talking actively campaigning and gaining support of many high name people to work With you, before your idea will gain steam, and not just get Lost amongst the deluge of ideas that have already been introduced.

    If you do kind of like the system (And this is kind of where I am at) and you can compromise, then vote for it.
  12. UberBonisseur

    There is no winning or losing.
    There is no cut off or linked.
    There are no consequences of getting flanked or surrounded

    Nothing matters other than Certs; the only reason people care about Alerts is certs, and I'm pretty sure you'd make more holding the Crown alone and killing people for 2 hours than conquering 33% of the territory.


    Now, more seriously, about being "cut off":

    The point of cutting off facilities or stretching deep in territory should not be for the sake of leaving a Blue scar on the map in a ocean of Red.

    It should be a way to weaken the facilities located on the FRONTLINES; thus making those facilities/bases/whatever less defensible. Which means those frontlines would have to fall at some point.
    It's INTENDED for back-capping to ruin good fights act as a strategic lever.

    The issue is, it should also be true for attackers which currently never run out of resources in any way.
  13. Whiteagle

    Well that sounds like we need an Intercontinental Meta-game...
  14. Cl1mh4224rd

    It most certainly did not.

    Here's an old comment by someone hoping that "PlanetSide Next" will have headshots. Here's an old thread on PlanetSide Universe that makes a passing reference to the lack of headshots in the original game.
  15. Irondove

    We get it Matterson is awesome.. its packed to capacity with fights happening on all three continents. But in the long run when they have 10 continents, and you may only be fighting against 1 other faction on a continent, whilst in another you may be fighting the other two faction, and yet in another holding out 2 warpgates in case the enemy surges out into your fully capped continent...you will be screwed. Then consider servers who arn't filled to capacity.

    I can tell you all this, but it wont matter if you've already decided that no matter what anyone says the lattice is a bad idea. SO I HAVE TO ASK: Have you even played on the lattice system of planetside 1? You should try planetside 1, its free and while an eyesore, it shows how the lattice would be implemented across 10 or more continents. there are perhaps only 700 players total playing this game so be mindful of that.
  16. Irondove

    lol the first hour of the alert people go afk on the contested continent, locking the continent up for those who wish to actively participate. I wish they place a timer on how long you can be in a warpgate; It shouldn't take more than 10 mins to accumulate forces there anyway.

    Then to stop people from walking outside the warpgate then back in and afking every 10 mins, you place a requirement that they have to travel to a contested region before they return to the warpgate and the timer resets.
  17. Ballor

    I think what war is plainly about is logistics. What lattice may be trying to do, i may be wrong, is employ a logistics view using tactical map functionality. This will cause all the problems that everyone has mentioned here.

    What i think should be done is have the attacking force 'deposit' in a virtual 'bank' if you will, consuming set amount of resources charged to outfits or the platoon in general, to have enough resources to attack a region. Connected regions cost less resources, ghost capping a region not connected will cost more. Air, vehicle and infantry resources will be broken down as an example for fuel, ammo, supplies and manpower. This will encourage grouping and soloing will be changed to just blowing up gens, placing mines near vehicle pads behind enemy lines, etc.

    Planetside 1 may be the blueprint, but at what cost? Is PS2 just a graphic update of what ps1 was or are we wanting something completely different to what was there before.
    • Up x 1
  18. Irondove

    so do you actual read the other posts or just give the first opinion that pops into your head when you read an OP post.
    • Up x 2
  19. Eyeklops

    Micro vs Macro. Two different worlds intrinsically linked together where one can have structure and the other doesn't.
  20. Ripshaft

    While I disagree with alot of your wording and implications, I agree with the sentiment that the lattice may be a poor addition to the game.. well... I mean I've always thought that, but at the same time I thought that people were so stupid that they'd never engage in any meaningful conquest behaviour, so i figured the new system was needed and would be great... I didn't expect that alerts would actually make people care about doing what they should have been doing from day 1.... I guess people really need that carrot just to do anything these days.

    That said, I'd still like to see the microhex system put on live, but in a limited manner for a few months, just to evaluate the effects of it. I know their development philosophy with the meta is to be as unrestrictive as possible, so I'm sure they're aware of this, but it would be tragic if it was pushed because people just seemingly wanted it.... despite it not being really necessary.

    But then again these are just my thoughts right now, based on my limited experience with the current microhex system. There's alot of issues I have with it that will likely be addressed, or result in more interesting gameplay in the end... so... we'll see.
    • Up x 1