[Suggestion] Empire Specific CARBINES

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Gundem, Nov 2, 2015.

  1. Gundem

    Oh yea. Time for Gundem to post an idea. *insert dis gun be gud gif*

    While I don't post my ideas often, I usually think long and hard about them. For the last week or so, my mind's eye has been Saron level focused on the idea of some ES LA weapons. Considering each faction's traits, the nature of the Light Assault class, and the game engine itself, I feel that I have created a concept of weapons which would adequately bolster the nature of the LA itself, while also creating a more interesting and dynamic class experience.
    As a forewarning, shut the **** up NC you're getting a ******* shotgun and you are gonna ******* like it.

    Exact stats, will remain up to the developers, should they choose to introduce these in any iteration. I cannot pretend to understand how such a weapon design would perform in real combat, and thus actual TTK may need to vary drastically from any theoretical TTK we could fathom on Statside 2.

    With that out of the way, I'd like to introduce our new weapons! These would conceptually focus on the ability to remain mobile. They would deal mediocre damage when compared to their CQC counterparts, but would have fixed hipfire CoF's, even while jumping or using your jetpack. Thus, these weapons would require you to outmaneuver our opponent rather then out-aim or out-damage them.

    TR: The MR-2 Bobcat

    "The M(icro)-R(otary)-2 Bobcat is a highly modified Lynx based off the original design of the MCG itself. This triple barreled SMG, while requiring a slight spin-up time, can unleash a devastating quantity of lead from it's equally impressive magazine while allowing it's user to keep on target."

    The Bobcat, like a sort of mini MCG, would focus on greater sustainability of the 3. It's DPS may not be stellar, but it remains the most accurate of the 3 over sustained fire, and has the largest magazine making it devastating in sustained firefights. It would also remain the most accurate, having a completely fixed CoF. Holding down M2 would function as an alternate spin up, allowing it to spin without firing. It would take roughly 1 second to fully spin up, and it would start firing at roughly 1/2 of a second, but when it reached maximum RoF it would have an absurd 900+ RoF for maximum carnage. Users would be able to spin the weapon while falling, jetjumping or even sprinting, at the cost of a very obvious winding sound and minimap awareness.

    NC: The RS MKII-Gungnir

    "The Gungnir, sometimes called the MJH for it's resemblance to it's larger counterpart, was designed for the lighter and more mobile needs of the Light Assault. With a focus on stopping power, this beast can tear through infantry with ease. It's alternate firing mode, fuses it's magnetic projectiles into a single bolt for greater ranged impact."

    For a smaller magazine and less range at first, the Gungnir fires a spread of 3 projectiles at a time, each dealing medium damage. Less stopping power then a traditional shotgun, but a much greater magazine size sets this masterpiece apart from other it's contemporaries. When aimed down sights, the projectiles focus to a single, high damage bolt for greater ranged combat, allowing LA's wielding this weapon to down targets at a distance with relative ease. This weapon would have a more dynamic CoF then it's TR counterpart, but would have better burst damage and stopping power in the initial moments of an engagement.

    VS: The VC-3 Enigma

    "Vanu's top scientists still haven't quite figured out how the appropriately named Enigma's self guided Bio-Crystalline ammunition links to it's users conscious. Each individual bolt is a light based micro-computer which is capable of distinguishing friend from foe mid-flight."

    Yes, you read me right. An auto-aiming gun. Inb4 Halo, this weapon would have quite the slow velocity, unimpressive damage and small magazine size, but each projectile would be capable of deviating it's course to a certain degree in order to hit it's target. This would allow any VS using the weapon to characteristically remain the most mobile, in exchange of being mediocre in other regards.

    Possible attachments for each weapon could include a BRRT for the TR, some TTK for ranged functionality exchange for the NC and perhaps a vital point targeting system for the VS, reducing it's projectiles ability to aim themselves, which then makes each projectile aim for the head instead of the body. All of these are entirely speculative, as you would need to see in-game performance first before going ham on the attachments.

    All of these would have access to most ordinary carbine attachments. They could all equip a FS, SPA, Suppressor(Which would reduce the TR's radar range while spun up, because sciencespacemagicnanites), extended magazines and optics.

    Comments? Suggestions? ScienceMagic wizards? Post below. I welcome constructive criticism. But if you are here to complain, insult anyone or start fights, please turn back.
    • Up x 2
  2. cbplayer

    I prefer the VS one to be a mini lasher with no friendly fire thank you.
    • Up x 1
  3. LordAnnihilator

    Nice ideas, but they all scream "NERF ME NOW! LET THERE BE SALT!" How do you intend to make them balanced? What're the negatives?
  4. AxiomInsanity87

    Sounds good.

    It will need to be tested thoroughly though, like actually tested proper.

    None of that brief "k den see what happens" testing lol.
  5. Gundem

    The negatives are reduced TTK when compared to your CQC variants, and reduced range capabilities compared to the stock or ranged variants. Overall they would be worse then any individual carbine, and the redeeming factor would be that you could jump and drift and rocket around like a maniac while you shoot and not have a COF worse then a shotgun.

    As for specifics, as I said you would need in depth in game testing for that, as we can't really determine how stat changes would work out on such unique weapons.

    I mean, inevitably, people will whine if you introduce something unique or ES. If it's not a carbon copy of other faction's weapons and a minute sidegrade of the current line of weapons, someone will always claim OP or unfair. But then the game lacks any flavor and gets boring.
    • Up x 1
  6. Demigan

    Just an observation of the NC weapon. It loses it's Mobility quickly.
    When hipfiring you can make use of the high burstfire damage this weapon does (is it auto or semi-auto btw? And what ROF?). However the moment you get at any range beyond shotgun range (say 10m, a Sunderer's length), it instantly means you need to start using ADS to hit your shots. Otherwise the spread will mean you will miss one or two (or even all 3) pellets, and the advantage of hitting all 3 pellets with good aim is too great to ignore... At which point you will be in ADS for most engagements, and having a lower velocity.

    I'll add another one for the VS one as well: infantry speed and mobility isn't high enough in most cases to offset it with a lower damage, even if you get a high accuracy with it. This weapon will have a teeny tiny area where it's balanced, but most of the iterations will be either too weak or too powerful. This also means that player bias will have a field day and depending on which faction you are one of them will always feel cheated. Especially in larger volumes where the weapon's ability might give it too big an advantage when a large group fills a room with crystaline bio bullets.
    We actually already run up against this problem with Flak, which is either too weak or too powerful, all starting with the fact that the flak has a skill-reducing mechanic.
  7. Gundem

    The NC's weapon would have improved pellet spread and damage drop off over conventional shotguns. We would be looking at a pellet spread of 1.5-2, and maybe half of an ordinary carbine drop off. It would be automatic, medium-low, around the range of the Basilisk, and it's recoil would be similar or somewhat lower then the SAW. The goal would be to get around 25 meters of hipfire range, and then the ADS function would take it out to 45 meters before drop off and magazine size became too limiting for it, to prevent it from outclassing other carbines. The ADS form would not deal regular slug damage, perhaps dealing 250 max, so long ranged variants would still outclass it somewhat, but it would get the x.75 movement speed for improved ads combat as well. Also, it would still get the improved hipfire CoF, so even while jumping or during sustained fire it would be pretty accurate from the hip.

    As for the VS, I agree that it'd be a bit harder to balance, but honestly can you say with a strait face that the Lasher isn't extremely situational? And even in those situation's it's not even that good. With around a 20 mag size and a TTK resembling that of the Polaris, it's TTK would be within reason, still lower then any CQC or even stock carbine, but with the mobility advantage you could easily dodge enough shots to make up for that.

    Remember though, these weapons are not intended for lane combat or head-to-head engagements. They are meant to be used in conjunction with your Jetpack, dropping in on your foes, drifting around them or bouncing back and forth in order to throw off their aim.

    As for the using in groups for the VS, any weapon used in a group is gonna be more dangerous then alone ;) But the VS carbine would be able to remain more mobile at range, focusing on movement rather then aiming. It's why testing would be so crucial, to find a balance between TTK and aiming abilities. I considered a Lasher style weapon, but that would honestly be even harder to balance. Getting splash hits would give it a laughably high TTK, unless you buffed the **** out of the splash, which would give direct hits too low of a TTK, plus the need to hit a surface would hinder the LA when flanking from awkward positions. Perhaps it could be done, but honestly self guided projectiles seems so much more fun then disco fury mkII.

    Of course, all the critiques above is why I posted here in the first place, and I appreciate them! In the raw almost any idea is unbalanced, and with a lot of people working over a problem it can get balanced much faster.
    • Up x 2
  8. Ghosty11

    In other words, quickly released to live in an OP state for the quick cash grab, then nerfed to hell and back when the sales slump, then finally 6 months to a year later "tuned" to a fair and balance state.
    • Up x 2
  9. AxiomInsanity87

    We're doomed lol.
  10. Blackbird

    Please stop posting this stuff .
    There is no balance in the game so lets add more faction specific OP weapons ....REALLY ??????
  11. Iridar51

    Me likey!

    I'm not sure the VS one is possible to implement, and PS2 does not have the functionality "right mouse button = alternate fire or pre-spin-up".

    For NC one, it would have to be a separate fire mode, that players have to switch into by pressing "B".

    For TR one, I think we can deal with just by removing spin up time, or making it very brief, or making the gun start at high RoF already, etc.
  12. Jubikus

    I like Tr and NC ones but the VS one with auto aiming feels like it could easily be abused even if it had absurdly bad damage in groups it could be devastating unless the auto target range was incredibly small around 1-3 meters within the target to get a cyote sort of effect (but the idea itself sure does fit the Vanu easy to use high technology theme so extra points for flavor). As for the TR one i dont see a problem with it if you can spin it up as your jetting into a room and then only hit the trigger to actually fire if theres someone there. The Nc one migh have an issue depending on the Fusion bolt shots damage and range and rate of fire as theres a reason they dont give light assaults BRs or SRs. But overall i really like the ideas and would be stoked to play with them despite the guaranteed rage threads of one being overpowered if its slightly better for majority of situations than the other ones.
  13. Gundem

    I wanted the TR to have the highest DPS but be balanced by that spin up, though I guess if it would have a higher TTK then say the Lynx then it hardly matters. Though my fear was that people would try and use it like a beefed up carbine, as even the NC's would have a pretty long TTK.

    As for the VS, I wonder if you could implement a function based off the current lock on's? Just remove any indication of a lock, make it instant whenever you mouse over a target, and give the shells very little devation? I don't know, I guess you'd need to talk to a developer to know that.

    You're post in your Youtube channel about jetjumping weapon's is actually what got me around to actually posting this, it was on the backburner for a while but I hadn't gotten around to posting it :D
  14. Gundem

    The VS Crystal bolts would only have a few degrees of projectile deviation, maybe 10 if we are being generous. That's like, a half an inch on my 2 foot monitor? You would have to have your reticle on your target for the autoaim to work, though, so no worries about absurd bolts flying all over the place. Plus, they would have lasher-esq projectile speed, I may have forgot to mention that. So yea, it actually would pretty much be Coyotes for an infantry. Give them peasants a real reason to complain!
  15. Gundem

    :UPDATE 1.1:

    Based on user feedback, I'd like to make a few adjustments, and as I can't edit the original post, I shall put down my ideas here; These will consist of mechanic clarifications, adjustments, and suggestions for stats to improve clarity-

    The TR would have a smaller spinup, maybe 1/3 of a second, but no firing during the spinup. Magazine size would be in-between 50-100, maybe 70? I honestly don't have a problem with using MCG magazines, but then the lower damage doesn't really make sense... Space magic?

    The NC's would fire at around basilisk speed, meaning 400-450 RPM. Each pellet would deal approx. 100 damage, meaning 300 damage if all shots hit. This actually leaves the TTK pretty high compared to the GD-7F(As intended), but it would also retain that fixed CoF so much more mobile and sustainable. Magazine size might look between 15-24. Fusion bolt mode would deal 250 damage a bolt, but drop off would also come into play reducing the TTK at range, as well as reducing your CoF benefit to prevent hipfire sniping. Shotgun mode would feature a very tight Pellet spread, 2-2.5 at tops.

    The VS's weapon would have a very slow velocity, around 250MPS, so pretty much Lasher speed. Each shot would only home in if you had your cursor on or near your target, and would only deviate a certain amount, up to 10 degrees radius depending on attachments. It would have about a 20-25 magazine size, 150 damage per shot and around a 550-600 RoF for medium TTK(Sadly no, linking 7 shots together would not cause your target to explode).
  16. Campagne

    As a NC player, I have strong feelings about this. However, I rather like having a forum account and even with the limited moderation here, I will not risk losing it by expressing my thoughts on this statement. Needless to say, the notion upsets me.

    I rather dislike the idea of creating carbine variants of the ES HA weapons. I think they should be completely unique, and instead have even more unique weapons over lightly different copies.

    In the title, you emphasize "carbines." The first two suggestions of yours are not carbines.

    First off, contrary to popular belief, stupid names are not a NC trait. "Mjolnir" withstanding, unfortunately.


    So it's worse than a normal shotgun, having less damage and even less range, and apparently has a "smaller magazine" but also has a "much greater magazine size?" It seems the only advantage it could possibly have is that it fires slugs when ADSing. Otherwise it is inferior to the other shotguns.

    If you absolutely have to give NC another damn shotgun, at least make it something half decent. The last thing the NC needs is more MagScatter-esque weapons taking up space in our arsenal.

    Sorry that this post seems against you. It's not supposed to be.
  17. Pelojian

    TR just comes across as a clone of the MCG and a different looking lynx, the starting CoF of the lynx with adv LS is small, i don't really see why any other TR weapon should have spin up time other then the MCG, spin up is just another dps limiting mechanic used instead of tweaking damage and standard rate of fire further.

    IMHO they should let M2 when using the MCG to spin the barrel up but produce some slight spin up noise using that mode like heavies do in TF2.

    TR doesn't need another bullet hose designed with preparation/luck prefiring before encountering the enemy to get the max firerate off the bat.
  18. Campagne

    When given the additional information:
    We get the following: An automatic, 400-450 RPM, 15-24 magazine 300 max damage burst, low damage drop off, tight CoF with 25m max range shotgun that is worse than a normal shotgun within ~10m.

    Or, an automatic, 400-450 RPM, 15-24 magazine, 250 max damage slug, high damage drop off, somewhat average CoF with SAW levels of recoil and 45m max range shotgun that is worse than a normal shotgun firing slugs at any range.

    If you absolutely have to give NC another damn shotgun, at least make it something half decent. The last thing the NC needs is more MagScatter-esque weapons taking up space in our arsenal.

    Sorry that this post seems against you. It's not supposed to be.
  19. Jake the Dog

    ES weapons for each class would be nice. HA and infil already got theirs.
  20. Iridar51

    Not sure why you quoted me for that, since I say similar things, just from a different viewpoint.

    I don't really like spin up apart from the romanticism. I do like revolving barrels, even if it's just 3 of them.

    The main point of these weapons is relatively high accuracy while jumping around and flying on the jet pack. The rest is just empire specific fluff that is of little actual consequence.

    Like I said, in the post you quoted -_- PS2 just doesn't have the functionality to use M2. Implementing it would require coding, which takes long time, and wouldn't be a huge improvement. Not worth doing, in other words.