Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Xitrec, May 29, 2015.
Definition by wiki:
Matter of opinion.
I, personally, am against dual-wielding IF it impairs LA's mobility. Mobility is our number-one signature trait! Although, it is not on the satisfying level, in my opinion. A default jet-pack should be buffed with more "horse-power", while keeping the current tank capacity.
If dual wielding is added-in as a buff to our firepower, it's very welcomed because we could use a bit of extra juice in that department as well. If we are caught off-guard, as in - we are caught out in the open, we are at every possible disadvantage. Most likely we are to lose the duel. Our play-style should be to catch people off guard, I agree, but failing to do so (which inevitably happens) shouldn't by default penalize us with death without the chance to fight back on even terms (more or less).
Iridar says that in video-games, just like in action/SF movies, we don't necessarily have to compare the plot and gadgets used to real life. Why would we? We are there to have fun, not to be cynics. At least that's how it should be. And I agree with it. As someone who enjoys SF, I can confirm that one of the primary reasons for my fondness of the genre is exactly the fact that anything is possible. You can always come up with the "that's why" and "that's how".
On the other hand, snipers are a reality IRL. And I find them counter-productive and extremely annoying inside the PS2 universe.
Down to the personal preference I guess, but no need to star insulting people and their IQ. Especially when you're wrong.
Exactly, so dual wielding is SCIENTIFICALLY less profitable, than single semi-auto/auto firearm.
Just prooved mah point.
Exactly, it as as you say - dual wielding is awesome and should be implemented ASAP.
I can do this too. Rip words out of context and give them whatever meaning I like.
You can proclaim victory all you like, anyone with half a brain sees you cornered yourself into fail.
good, ones with full packed brains will think otherwise.
The main differance is that im standing from a practical and scientific point of view, while u try base on fantasy and rainbow ******** ponyes
Touche Eloquence alone is not enough, though.
The definition of science fiction states that anything can be used, as long as it makes sense within the established world.
It does not say it has to be realistic from the viewpoint of modern level of technology.
Neural implants with EMP shielding make sense within the world of PlanetSide 2, because they already exist there.
You cornered yourself by bringing up the definition of science fiction, which you broke yourself, and challenging the very basic fact of advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic.
Keep your wrong facts and lack of understanding of things you are talking about. I'm gonna ride my technologically plausible, scientifically explainable, dual wielding pony over proven double rainbow.
There are 9000 other things in PS2 that don't make any sense from scientific and "practic" point of view. You wanna nitpick, start by making a list. Pretty sure most people are gonna be against boring down the game to a snooze fest of ARMA3 levels.
Double Cougars would be the ultimate choice of weapon.
Solution: Allow light assault to dual wield sidearms but in turn gives up his primary.
Faraday suit. It exists now, no reason why this could not be a part of armor in the future.
As to all your other arguments, Iridar is correct in each answer he's given.
As much as I agree it's cool, the whole "cool > realistic" argument is a bit of a strawman in this case, especially when combined with futuretech.
I think it would be cool if heavies could rocket-jump, infils could teleport like the Nightcrawler, we had aimbots and no recoil (well, not really, but you get the idea). Futuretech would make all of those things possible. Would it be good for the game? Hell no - it would screw with the balance something horrible.
And I can't see any way to implement dual-wielding on the current weapon-base without imbalance. Even if we could, there'd still be a ton of recoding, reanimation etc. required. Far, FAR too much work for a single, unnecessary (cool, yes, but still unnecessary), feature - especially at this point in the game's life cycle / development cycle. Apart from bugfixes and optimisation, what PS2 needs most is more depth/meta. That's what is going to keep this game alive, not dual-wielding for one class.
The two of you DO realise that EMP-stuff is already ingame, right? EMPs already affect your gear, and we can argue that the visual distortion is screwing up some sort of ocular implant. And we have EMP-resist implants to mitigate that.
Also, EMPs wouldn't affect human neural tissue / nerves, and EMPs only damage electronic circuits today because so much of the stuff is so fragile/delicate. In the future, stuff could be running on Auraxium crystals for all we know, so the whole "emps destroy tech" doesn't necessarily follow.
2 Commies... 'nuff said. No, no, no...
Just because there's other more important stuff to do doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss the possibility.
Just because YOU don't see a way to implement DW without causing imbalance and spending too much time on it, doesn't mean it's not there. You don't like the idea, so you probably didn't spend too much time pondering.
I have this suggestion on the issue tracker, I'll copy paste the main points:
This is the easiest implementation, that uses existing weapon mechanics:
Dual weapons behave absolutely the same as any other primary weapon. They are purchased and equipped as one primary weapon. The only difference is that you have two weapon models in front of your eyes instead of one.
It's not a gamechanger or class changer. Just another primary weapon. You still keep your sidearm.
The fire button fires both guns at the same time, making this a 2-pellet shotgun - very easy to implement.
A harder to implement, but cooler solution would be to make the guns alternate between left and right while firing.
Players can "aim" with dual weapons, like they can with T7 Mini Chaingun.
Effective range and firepower should be about on the level of SMGs.
The main statistical difference from other weapons is small Cones of Fire while flying on the Jet Pack.
They can be introduced as NS weapons, but this is also a huge opportunity to finally provide LA with faction flavor
Much like with stalker cloak, introducing these dual weapon will create a new playstyle for the class, and plug a hole that plagues all other LA weapons - lack of mid-air accuracy. Short effective range and mediocre accuracy balance the weapon.
They will have to create new models, which they can pull together from existing assets, and a unique set of animations (like they often have to do with unique weapons like NS-7, Archer, etc.). Mechanically, this is as easy to implement as any other weapon, and it does not become a HUGE thing people tend to make out of it. Just another way to play the class, nothing more.
Not sure about the other guy, but if you read a bit further, then you'll see - yeah, I realize that EMP and EMP resist implants are in game.
Actually, that doesn't look like too bad an idea and the whole "close-range-in-flight" niche really does need filling.
It's actually something I've thought of myself (admittedly not in quite as much detail) but since it still requires whole new weapon classes, coding, animations etc. I still think it's something for the not-near future purely because of the work involved.
Yeah, I'm just keeping the idea somewhere close in case they decide to add something to LAs. It's not like I expect them to do it yesterday.
In all honesty, even for Light Assaults specifically there are more important holes to plug than mid air accuracy option.
The simple fact is as LA we have struggled through being out gunned in combat when it comes to Infil SMG's and Panic Button Heavies, but its made us more skilled shooters as a result, at lease of us who don't just tree/roof camp.
We never have and will never need more ways to kill things since we have a way to hand almost any threat with a JP giving us various angles to approach threats from. What we need is usefulness, a Tool....not a weapon. Something that lets you bring something to the team that doesn't only benefit yourself. The very thing that makes us unique also most of time takes out of Med range.
A Tool/Utility that can be used to benefit us solo slightly but has also greater use to fellow team mates.
Devs should go ahead and make Light Assault useful. By, oh I don't know, getting to that 2 ******* year delayed revamp. Give use a tool we can use. The Light Assault is the perfect mix between and infantry soldier and a way of gathering intelligence. Give us something that reflects that. Ideas-
A beacon we can place down that has a small drone circle around it and auto marks enemies.
Sticky cameras, Light Assaults are perfect for getting into vantage points no one else can, let us put a camera down that we can look through to provide intel.
A satellite view that we can look through and spot vehicles (not infantry). We could upgrade it with night vision, infrared or thermal vision, but it would only have enough view to look at a single region/base.
A sensor grenade that high lights enemies in a certain radius, it allows all friendlies to see.
A laser designator that can allow certain rocket pods, or infantry/MAX launchers to lock on to it.
SOE neglecting the Light Assault class and nerfing it into the ground was unexceptable, and it sure isn't acceptable for Daybreak.
Sorry, but don't agree. We're assault, not support. Same as the heavy, our usefulness to the team comes from killing and blowing stuff up. We have different ways to get the job done, but they're in no way less efficient, or less needed, even though often underappreciated by inexperienced leaders, or shunned by experienced leaders afraid of inexperienced LAs that try to play HA style anyway.
But I do think that "out of medic range" really is the key to our tool. More often than not we have to respawn, forcing us to 'go the extra mile' walking back to the fight from the next available spawn point. So to me, the perfect tool for the LA would be a hoverboard. Magrider technology for our own personal flash in a backpack, to get back to the fight faster, or even into position in the first place. I could even easily see sharing this with the infiltrator class, to get more usage out of a single content upgrade, as that class also involves a lot of getting into position, as well as switching compromised positions. (could even add a silver surfer lookalike cosmetic skin for the marvel fans, if they don't get their iron man )
You're correct. We aren't direct support. Something like the Heavy's rockets/missiles or the Medic's healing offers and immediate form of support. That is direct support. Like Infiltrators, Light Assault should have a role in passive support. They can get to vantage points to mark enemies and scout areas. And then report back to the main forces and act on that intelligence. The can function as reconnaissance units or a shock troops. Just like the Infiltrators. Infiltrators' means of support are through motion detectors and recon darts- these are passive, and we need more ways to support like this. We collect intelligence through tools like the Infiltrator and use our C4 and rapid assault weaponry (carbines, SMGs, shotguns) allows us to act on the information we have gathered. We have the direct means of support but no way to support passively through gathering intel. It's wasted potential. Also I really hope you were joking about the hover board thing, it seems out of place for Planetside. Not to mention the Drifter Jets are basically what you are describing.
I been apart of some of the best tactical outfits in both PS games. Apart from taking out roof top spawn beacons and killing roof top camping LA's most Tactical leaders would rather you be a support class because because all support classes can kill just as efficiently as LA's with added aid to either medic or repair.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to prove myself good enough in direct ground assault, toe to toe against heavies and other classes plus Anti Max for me to be the selected LA individual usually for the squad as sometimes allow 1 LA and 1 Infil if are numbers are big enough which is usually 1 full platoon of 48 RiMG.
The fact is you cant argue positively that you can be more useful as an LA to a squad. you would have better range with Medics AR, and be able to kill just a quickly with Engies Carbine as LA's
That's why we need tools that help us be effective to a team and take advantage of our mobility. Not more firepower or a way to self revive.
Carbines don't kill people, jet packs do.
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