Dogfighting is Annoying

Backwards flying is a glitch, it has been listed as such (Review the command center videos) it should be removed from the game. thats like saying using the "AD" movement glitch is an "advanced maneuver"

Lol, tell me about it

I don't remember SOE wanting to get rid of it. I think they wanted to make it less powerful with the minimum fuel cost they added, and may have reduced the effect when people complained. Still, they said they wanted to keep hover fights (of course, official stance and developers' personal opinions may differ).

As SeanFree said, it's a rare gameplay mechanic that many people enjoy. I think it'd be a shame if every shooter with aircraft avoided hover fights and I don't see what's wrong with having different games cater to different people.

Jet plane hovering fights may not happen, but we're getting pretty close to seeing similar braking maneuvers (example: thrust vectoring on the F22).

Actually, one of my favorite in-game kills was from doing exactly that, only we were very near the ground and I dropped even lower first (a few meters above ground level) so that the Mosquito chasing was forced to go over me. We were so close that, as I lifted my nose and he soared over me, I bumped into his tail, making him nose dive into the ground. He exploded, I survived XD


If SOE want to make the hover fights more intuitive they really need to turn the Analog breaking button into a brake + switch to hover mode button, and bind it to something by default.

Eh Dogfighting in Planetside 2 is more about who gets the drop on who first. That is the price of flying on your own and not with a squadron. From my experience, yes the reverse manuever is a key thing to learn and regardless of the debate surrounding it, it is what is at this moment in time. If you want a more traditional dogfight you're probably better off playing War Thunder or something similar.

I'm aware it wasn't originally intended in the game but pilots took it and ran with it. It's a bit different from ADAD warping since, you know, it's actually counterable with another reverse to meet them. Removing the reverse will bring the air back to mindless circles that you can get in literally any other game and much better in said games.

I rather have "Mindless circles" than a pre-req to just fly a damn ESF

If the reverse maneuver was harder to pull off I'd agree but it's not so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sooo, yeah, dog fighting sure is fun..

Allow me to direct your attention to the following necropost.
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...peak-up-or-lose-your-reverse-maneuver.144471/

Here's the relevant quote from the August 1st 2013 test patch notes

At first glance, they didn't intend to remove it entirely, but rather reduce it's effectiveness... by about 75%, at least in terms of lift. Given the quirky nature of the physics engine, who knows what it would have actually done, but they did intend on nuking it's functionality through the floor.

The minimum fuel cost is what came of the above changes, the intent was to make pilots cert / equip afterburners to take full advantage of the reverse maneuver - instead, people attempting to learn it have been having more issues doing so, while those that have mastered it can continue utilizing it with minimal fuel cost. (My own observations / experiences here, but this is my general impression.)

In my opinion, the reverse maneuver should either be removed, or documented, and have a SOE-sponsored tutorial published about it's use. Pilots willing to instruct others / contribute training or other vids to a stickied tutorial post, which could then be sponsored on the launcher. Heck, i'd be fine with an 'air brake' + 'reverse thrusters' set of controls added (Tapping analogue thrust to cut engines? That's obnoxiously non-intuitive)

[soapbox]
In it's current state, only dedicated pilots can even begin learning to fly ESFs properly, and with Skygods preying on new pilots, many simply don't get back in an ESF, and many more simply don't continue playing. With an inability to rebind yaw and other aircraft controls, ESFs especially feel clunky and awkward until you get used to the limited control scheme. I would love to be able to use my HOTAS , but no. Without actual flight controls (My job involves flight simulator programming. It doesnt appear as though Planetside 2 has any) I don't find ESF piloting to be very rewarding. It's fun at times, but it could be quite a bit better then it is without all that much adaptation.
[/soapbox]
Fortunately, there's plenty of other aspects of the game I enjoy, thus, they are what I play. I have no real problem with the state of air as it stands, the above is just my two cents. Kudos to those that enjoy ESF piloting, i'll stick with my gal / flash / tanks / infantry / etcblahblah.

Seeing footage of dogfights has made me never want to use an ESF. Ever. It just looks dull and is the pointed end of the "who has the best tech" 1v1 bull-poo this game has.

I bet I'm not alone in that, and I bet it's one of the reasons the air-powah guys are so emo every time their **** gets nerfed - they can't play without it.

Everything you've said has been most reasonable.

Then get up in their face.

Summed it up pretty much... I gave up going for dogfights long ago the learning curve is waaay to high for me, cant decently aim with the nousegun and dont feel like sinking days of training until im eventually decent. Same goes for the reverse manouvre. Too bad SOE did not remove it.
Oh while we are at it... This doesnt stop me from pulling an all AA ESF from time to time and harras those "ace" idiots with lockons. The whining on the chat afterwards keeps me well entertained

Oh I completely forgot about that atrocity. I was speaking in the context that some players want to see the reverse maneuver removed, and if SOE had wanted that they could easily have done it long ago. That change was supposed to reduce the effectiveness but, as you said, it would have been completely overboard. Personally, I think they could have tried 8 -> 6 and seen how it played, but the backlash was just so strong they abandoned it entirely (that's one of the downsides for pendulum balancing).

I agree it'd help a lot if SOE linked some community tutorials in-game. Control changes really should happen too, but that seems like it'd only help people with certain preferences.

I suggest a hover key because even before you learn the reverse outmaneuver you have to force your plane into hover mode through particular angles. So it would be an improvement.

I see people say "it should be more intuitive" but they usually don't suggest anything, and I don't know how you would do it. What that would that entail? Physics changes so it feels better? Hopefully not a single button that flies your plane backwards for you.

I'll often fail to reverse maneuver because my forward thrust isn't low enough, hell, I don't even know what it's supposed to be. I generally just try to go up when I appear to have slowed considerably and I'm at less than 40 kph. A good way to make it more intuitive would be to play a sound or graphic to indicate when you're ready to thrust upwards. All you have to go on currently is the stream lines at the wings I believe which can only be seen in third person.

Are you really going to go here?

I don't know how long some of you have been here, but SOE already tried to remove the Reverse Manuver once. Community backlash killed it off. It was removed on the PTS at one point.

Really?

That would be me. The one crashing, that is. Thought i was doing good last night on Hossin (only recently got into flying in PS2) and was playing tag with a Mossy. I did as much of a power dive as you can and shot between some tree trunks. Came around one big one feeling pretty good... then... oh crap.. BRANCH!......*Boom*
I feel that I will never get the hang of it but I grow tired of seeing those air resources never getting used.

No, it was backlash from a small and very vocal part of the ESF uber-pilots. Most people, including some pilots, don't actually know it's an issue.

I'm sorry, but some of us enjoy skillful play in the air. If you don't, stick to groundpounding.

It'd be nice if the ESF's actually had to deal with physics when flying. Something more akin to a flight simulator, with gravity, acceleration, bleeding speed, ect. The flight physics in this game just aren't fun. There's no need for Immelman's, or S-turns, or lag-rolls, or anything resembling dogfighting tactics. It all boils down to 'who can reverse turn better'?

Aerial combat in this game is pretty awful all around.

Guys, again, if you want looping twisting twirling dogfighting, go play any other game. Heck, I've even fought like this before when it's 5v5 of ESF's but 1v1 dogfights are going to be hover duels. Before you call me an elitist pilot who wants to pwn noobs, look at my K/D. Don't remove a unique mechanic because you don't want to adapt to it.