Dogfight Lock-on Flaming

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Kifsator, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. miraculousmouse

    Even though I rarely get a chance to do it, it's really enjoyable and sadistic when you use a G2A lockon on a scythe/mossy when he tries to either finish off or flee from a reaver.
  2. Howler556

    I run a banshee with tomcats. Have had tomcats since 2 months after launch day... 6 kills and they are my standard load out.
    I just use them to shoo away people. All I have to do is get a lock and people just run away, leaving me to nose gun some inf.
    Locked onto a scythe once. Didn't even fire, guy "evasive maneuvered" right into a cliff.
    They are not really insta gib cannons. They do enough damage for me to finish people off with a nose gun not even meant for a2a combat, so I love em.
  3. Nexus545

    The airgame is terribly elitist. If you manage to annoy one of these players feel like you're accomplishing things :)

    I used to like flying now it's boring because it's all reverse maneuvers. Using A2A on BR 100s to annoy them is the only fun I get out of air versus air now.
    • Up x 1
  4. Quipster

    Noticed this. Came back after a several months, and I definitely see a big difference in the way your average air duel plays out. I really like that 90% of them are no longer concluded by ground based AA as opposed to one of the two (or more) airborne participants, but it does kind of suck that there's no more... I dunno... Finesse to it. As I recall, it used to be that a duel would really make use of the terrain, AB, tricks like hiding behind/under something and popping up behind your opponent, leading them into traps, etc. So far, it's been pretty much 100% loopdiloops and reverse maneuver for 5 mins until I get sick of it and retreat. Or kill them / die. In any case, it's not like I remember it. Better in some aspects (AA feels a lot better now, both as an ESF and as an AA gunner), worse in others.

    Eh. Not that big of a deal as I strive to avoid those kinds of situations anyway. A distracted / tunnel visioned / unaware target is a much better target than one who is engaging me. Simple fix I suppose. Kill em before their loopdieduel can even get started.
  5. Crayv

    I do not fight with honor as honor is not my tradition.... victory is my tradition.

    Aircraft in large fights? I thought that rarely happen as there is always a few Burster MAXs/Skyguards in large fights keeping the air clear for hexes around. Sounds rather situation to me.

    Also fuel pods give advantage in other ways as this person mention
  6. IamnotAmazing

    clearly a baddie when you think the air game is all reverse maneuvers
  7. [NNG]WillTerry

    Flying in planetside is 90 mythical public perception and 10 percent accuracy/maneuvering. It is no where as elitist, difficult, holy, or ethereal as forums make it out to be. You fly around, get behind people, put some bullets in them, probably win cause you started first. Maybe you start off facing each other, then accuracy and dodging wins. No more magical than that.
    • Up x 4
  8. XTCAndy

    There is nothing wrong with lock ons. All the weapons in this game have a function. With lock on you need a certain amount of time, and I use the Hades a lot as an HI and sometimes you don't have those seconds to lock on, and yes I am good at aiming dumbfire missiles. Basically the guy you encountered was butt hurt. The missiles for the scythe and other light aircraft have different functions. The air-to-air ARE for dogfighting other aircraft, and by doing so you give up use of them with ground targets. That is why they have things like the Coyote Missiles which are a middle ground weapon that can both be used in air and ground, and then there are missiles mostly for ground targets (especially infantry) and ones for killing vehicles. Using them for that stated purpose is the whole point. To say only a noob uses a particular type shows the butt hurt nature of the player. Just ignore them and remember when you kill them they get to see your happy little face. If we could have personalized death screens like "Have a Great Day, with a Missile to the Face" then on my Heavy Infantry I would totally pay real SC for that. Imagine you die and a smiley face is there saying Oh, Missile to the Face.

    Unfortunately we can't do that. For every butt hurt player out there who thinks you should not use a particular option there is a player like me who would then go out of the way to make sure I use that particular weapon option on that particular player just because they are emotionally immature and can't handle it, and then have to voice their butt hurt to you in chat. Noobs ***** about things, and call you unsportsman when you use a lock on missile. It doesn't matter if they have played 2 or 3 years of this game, they are still a noob emotionally. Your immortal in this game and you will die repeatedly and often for BS reasons like the Lag I just died at least 3 times and all because when I hit the F key I don't come out of cloak and then hit F to go back in. I have crap tons of Lag and so the person that ultimately kills me thinks perhaps they have mad skills. OR it was just massive lag. That is actually frustrating and part of the game, but if you get frustrated that the Heavy Infantry is using lock ons, that is what Smoke and Stealth are for. So if your a pilot that is worthy then buy up defensive options like this. I kill a LOT of vehicles and aircraft with my Heavy Infantry and his lock on missile. I also dumb fire a lot and I have unlocked the Nemesis, Hades because I like having the option to use both, and yes I own the NS system one too, and along with the Lancer all have different functions in different situations. Sometimes I am killed because I am unlucky and simply made the wrong choice such as having the NS launcher which cannot dumbfire and I really needed my Hades. So I get pounded and die. It happens and I respawn and if needed I switch out the weapon. It is frustrating but the other person is not a noob for killing me, and I am not a noob for dying or making that choice. That is simply part of this game. Choices and sometimes we make good ones and sometimes we make not so good ones.
    • Up x 1
  9. Kafein

    Lock-ons are generally not fun for both parties involved, hence why the bro-code of air players is not to use them. It's not about honor, but rather about maintaining an enjoyable playground for everybody.

    It's really just that. Not abiding that "rule" will frequently results in you getting ganked by a couple of angry BR 100s, for good reason. Or people telling you it's bad to use lock-ons. Not that sometimes they are polite.

    Lock-ons are really only enjoyed by people with the empathy of a sociopath or a severe lack of maturity such as the above poster. They are going to tell you excuses like "I do it for victory" or "if it's in the game it's fine" but in reality it's just a cheap way to out their repressed sadistic pulsions.
  10. FillyFluttershy

    I don't even participate in the air-to-air game, but this seems kind of overboard of you to say. How do you think Infantry primary players feel when targeted by frame-rate-assaulting lulzypods and Light PPA / M14 Banshee? I had little to no chance for meaningful retaliation, and unless I had Level 4 or 5 Flak equipped, full health, and very near by cover, I'm toast. Sometimes I'm dead to a Banshee before I even know I'm being attacked. It's about as ridiculous as hunting a prairie dog with grenades. Waiting for the mostly helpless Infantry to pop out of cover and then bombarding them. I feel little sympathy for any ESF who doesn't focus on air superiority.

    A2AM on, OP. It's just like the tank mines and Mine Guard debacle. Mine Guard and Flares are both available hard counters to their respective situations, but everyone cries about it anyway because they might have to give up their other perk as a tradeoff.
  11. Flag

    The best example would be Server Smash. Especially the first air battle (if there is one) comes before any flak or AA has a chance of deploying.
    • Up x 1
  12. Alarox

    Sometimes you nerf things that are blatantly OP right away. Sometimes it takes you half a damn year to realize.
  13. PKfire

    • Up x 1
  14. Gleerok

    Not so much for tomcats now since they lost the popularity of being an easy "fire and forget" 100% hit rate weapon. They now require some more effort, and that took away all those that spammed tomcats over and over. I still think they do too much damage. Yesterday I was fighting a PPA scythe that lured me into flak, and the flak only scratched my ESF. I was then hit by his lock-on A2M and it put me straight into fire, I got him before watching my ESF burn to its end :(

    As for coyotes, I've been using them, and I still think they need a reload time increase. The default reload time should become the maximum certed level, and then it should be adjusted from there.

    I have level 2 reload, and I didn't feel the necessity of upgrading as I can still spam them (wait for the reload and repeat) continuously if I need too. And whoever fights me with coyotes seem to hit one salvo after the other if there is an opportunity.

    Coyotes are ok as a eapon, they just need some adjusting to avoid salvo after salvo spam. Other than that they fill the role of a close-range supplementary damage weapon that will keep most pilots into defensive mode. It will still piss dogfighting purists, but that we can't avoid.

    Whenever I use Coyotes, sometimes I don't even fire them with the intent of doing meaningful damage, I only do the scare tactic "I am dangerous form up-close, stay away." The psychological factor plays such a role that I often win fights against those who buy it.

    Even doing less than 10% damage with coyotes, I still get hate tells. Lol.
    • Up x 2
  15. Runegrace

    Most people who complain about lockons use fire suppression, which gives them a 25% HP crutch. Why do most pros use that and not, say, Scout Radar or something to help their team? Because the pro flyers use what's effective and lets them kill the most. There is no 'honor' about it. A2A isn't as useful to them as AB tanks, as those let them jump people easier, move around the continent looking for noobs to shoot down, and then enter and leave combat areas quickly if AA is too harsh, increasing their survivability.

    However, A2A does counter THEM pretty well since it levels out the skill needed to deal damage, and is countered by flares which they don't run because FS gives more help with flak and that lovely 25% HP crutch for pure dogfights. Why equip flares when hate tells leaves your utility slot open for other items? If they can shame you into changing your loadout, then they don't have to change theirs.

    A2A weapons ARE a bit too spammy right now, though. And when you jump a single fighter with 6 guys PLUS use A2A on them it gets pretty gank-y. Not to mention it just does yourself a disservice. If you have 3 allies all shooting the same enemy I'll hold back on using A2AM or Coyotes as it's more sporting as well as a pretty safe time to practice your nose gun lead on a dodging target. Even otherwise, I tend not to throw off my secondary very often. They could double the reload times of A2AM and Coyotes and I wouldn't really have to adjust my style much.

    When I have a report with someone on the other side I'll do the honor and courtesy thing, but otherwise I expect the enemy to be doing everything they can to win and so I'm going to do the same. Anything beyond that is up to the devs to fix.
  16. Runegrace

    This. Supplementary weapons should be supplementary. I often just throw a Coyote salvo if the enemy is doing near-collision passes to force them to keep some distance, or if a scythe is just hovering slightly up and down with that crazy front profile to get him to start moving. A2AM is usually just an opening alpha or a finish to someone that just decides to run with their tail between their legs, with the rest of the dogfight being nose gun.

    If coyotes were 5s reload (4s certed) and A2AM were 10s reload (8s certed) I think they'd be in a pretty good spot.
    • Up x 1
  17. dBus

    Wow. Really? Using A2A missiles makes you a sociopath?

    I use A2A missiles so that I can kill other aircraft. Other aircraft that are killing my infantry team-mates with LOL-pods.

    If you ask me, the sociopaths are the ones that rocketpod their way to massive K/D ratios against infantry.

    The A2A missile users are the solution to the rocketpodders.
    • Up x 1
  18. Gleerok


    Supplementary. And they should stand in background in terms of relevancy; part of the picture, not anywhere the center.
    Coyotes could be the weapon you use to change the pace of the engagement, like you said, force someone to move or deny them close distance (defensive play). Like: *Coyotes full salvo > Nosegun until reload time > coyotes if the moment calls for it (or just as spray weapon) -> Nosegun. And then noseguns would account for 80% of the actual engagement, with coyotes being either the final blow, the change of pace, or the starting punishment for the rushing opponent (I do it a lot).

    As of now, even after the slight reload increase, they are still perfectly spammable. A2Am... kinda, they do screw you up specially when the guy is hovering and that blinking *A2A LOCK* annoying as hell and you know you'll get killed on the next one or two shots and you won't be able to do much about it as running away makes things worse JUST because they *can* wait for the reload time, because its not large enough. Similar with coyotes id say.

    Nothing too harsh for the weapons, just a small increase. As of now I am fine fighting them, although they do often feel a bit OP, and that being a coyotes user myself, compared to noseguns, which on this hand are supposed to be the main guns in ESFs otherwise they would be on the second slot.

    Also, all the hate lock-ons get is accountable to their past, and not current state on my opinion. Just like ESFs still get all the hate for ground farming even after several ground nerfs and AA buffs.

    This is further evidenced by the psychological play of Coyotes. Most pilots seem to enter instant state of shock the moment I show them I have coyotes. I fought the same pilots with and without them and their movements are completely different. Its funny lol. Like I said, I often don't even resort to coyotes damage, way more nosegun damage to the openings promoted by the fear factor of them.
  19. RobotNinja

    Only noobs use bullets.
  20. Xervous

    The main issue I find with lock ons and coyotes is how much damage they provide on their own with respect to the amount of effort required.

    I'll ask the community once more as I always do, what accuracy with a nosegun should do comparable damage to a chain of lock ons? If the A2AM's damage is too high, it demands an unrealistically high accuracy of the opponent such that few save elite pilots can with the damage race. If it's far too low, then of course there's no purpose for the weapon's existence.

    Currently you need slightly above 50% accuracy for most stock noseguns to win a DPS race against lock ons or coyotes using just your nosegun. Personally I find that a little too high... but as for the correct value I'm not quite sure.