Does the TR have an identity crisis?

I think what he means to illustrate is that there are some big pros and tiny cons, and that just doing a count of pros and cons in no way takes into account the magnitude of the pros and cons.

What he's trying to say is that you can't just say that the number of pros outnumber the cons (or the other way around), you have to take them into account as a holistic package.

But they (the magnitude of a pro and con) are also subjective. The pros and cons listed by the original poster were meant to show what each faction had going for them in both a positive and negative fashion. From that logic (the points he listed) I claimed that the TR had less advantages than disadvantages which would be unbalanced by definition. Because there is no way to quantify (prove) a pro is more important or outclassed by a con we have to look at the problem more empirically and assume that each pro is of equal value and is of a 1:1 ratio to a con. Again I'm simply operating by his statement nothing more I'm not trying to make a grand statement about the overall balance of the game, I'm simply pointing out a flaw in his logic.

That's your problem right there. He's saying that you can't do that, as given by his example of comparing a con of a 25 resource infantry cost to a pro of instakilling everything.

We don't have to do what you think we have to do at all. We can instead rely on performance statistics to get a holistic idea of how each bit of kit is working.

Hold on a minute man, TR gets the "not as good as the least used NC LMG Gauss saw S, TMG 50"

Performance statistics, that were not provided in the original post. I'm questioning his logic not the game balance.

It appears my point was too subtle for you.

The point was that counting pros and cons is stupid. Pros and cons aren't necessarily balanced in value.

+100% rate of fire doesn't balance -1% accuracy.

With the specific pros/cons in PS2 things like TR's longer reload is a tiny price to pay for larger magazines. I don't think the balance is generally too far off, though with TR's carbines in particular I do feel they tend to just overall be better in skilled hands than the other carbines.

TR is getting shafted once again with a useless TRAP that has low DPS and horrible horizontal recoil and a boring, inaccurate "Zepher variant" as their empire specific Liberator belly gun.

Lous CK can really pull off that Comissar Hat.

Can he be our new leader?

Only if R. Lee Ermey gets to be our Drill Sergeant

I NEED AMMO NOT EXCUSES!

Everyone knows Princess Celestia is your true master.

You and your pony humor Btw if you're going to use MLP pictures at least make them PS2 related.

Twilight Sparkle is a false Princess. Her lies will lead us all to extinction.

Princess Celestia may be fair and rainbow of mane but her hooves are wrought with steel with which she tramples upon the face of liberty.

Only Princess Luna can show us the true path to Freedom and the Magic of Friendship.

The problem is, in relation to faction traits there's no real talk in terms of specifics. I was told that the TR's faction traits include poor horizontal recoil and poor reload times sacrificed in order to attain 5-10 more rounds per mag. Because the traits are supposed to be universal it's hard to work specifics into the equation especially when we're told that all weapons are supposed to share this trait. What was said was: as a whole TR guns have more horizontal recoil and slow reloads. I acknowledge that there are exceptions to this rule but in order for something to be a faction trait it is assumed that it is prevalent enough to set it apart from the other factions. Just as the magazine size is noticeable on the TR, the lack of bullet drop is noticed on the VS, and so too is the damage per shot noticed on the NC. If we follow this trend in assuming that faction traits as stated should be more notable for the faction they serve it also follows that the negative traits will be notable roughly on the same caliber, if not then they would not be faction specific.

Here's my thoughts on the matter. The TR are suppose to be the military faction who have the top of the line equipment. NC broke from the TR due to oppression and therefore the NC's guns should be more like the TR's guns. Kind of a they left with what they had from their previous faction. Since VS went a different route, they should be mostly different. I believe the TR should have "tried and true" weapons that end up not looking flashy, but work the best leading them to maybe looking boring.

Pretty much, the VS and NC should be the ones who have guns like the TR's. The NC arsenal should more closely resemble and act like the TR while the VS should feel different but at the same time have a few guns that are similar as well. And every faction should have a few weapons that resemble other faction weapons due to them "working the best" for them. Though since the tech is different for each faction, the similar guns would inherently do damage in different amounts/ways.

Since Gals and Libs are the same throughout, they should all have the same equipment at a base level while having their ownweapons with flavor of their faction.