Does the TR have an identity crisis?

Because SOE decided to give the NC and VS weapons with higher RoF than TR weapons, that makes the TR faction trait invalid?

VS complain about how bad "no drop" is as a faction trait but always forget to mention how it has gotten to a point where people are actively trying to deny the existence of one of the TR main faction traits. And even the extra ammo per mag trait is being undermined by NS carbines and AR's which both have 35 rounds per mag.

I like your points, but I feel that on average the TR don't win in ROF. Beyond the serpent and vx6-7, the VS also have guns like the orion, and may in fact beat out the TR in ROF in general, or at the very least tie up.

The NC of course has a ROF disadvantage.

Its something I might just examine closer later on. I can't now though, but it'd be interesting!

These are the areas where we completely disagree.

Outside Carbines, yes, TR does have the fastest firing weapons.

Fastest firing pistol, AR, LMG, Heavy Weapon, SMG, ESF, MAX, MBT.
The Minigun and Armistice are the fastest firing infantry weapons in the game. I think the M18 Rotary is the fastest firing vehicle weapon?

But for some reason people get so hung up around the fact that TR in one category, carbines, have a slightly slower firing weapon.

If you can not handle horizontal recoil. TR may not be the faction for you. In the grand scheme its balanced. Try out the VS and NC weapons and see if their recoil patterns better fit your playstyle.

Beyond that. I don't know what to tell you. We can't debate this. They are facts. Its like disagreeing with gravity.

Well, true to a certain extent, in that VS are supposed to be versatile in that in terms of the ROF/damage per shot equation they tend to occupy the middle. Yes, Orion has 750RPM and this is the ceiling for LMGs- but TR has 2 choices within this ROF. You can calculate the average ROF within LMGs and see that TR has more higher ROF options than VS. Not by much, true, but it is there. Also, notice that the Orion ties the Carv (and MSW) but the Carv has 2x the mag ammo and therefore twice the damage per magazine. Want something like the Orion, you've got the MSW, want something similar to the Orion but with 2x more suppressive capability then you have the Carv.

Different, to be sure, yes the Orion does tie with TR ROF but is dwarfed in terms of sustainable fire and damage per mag thanks to TR having what is effectively a second useful trait. Could they make a higher ROF LMG? Probably, what do you think it should look like stat wise? Or would TR be better off with some other new thing in LMGs?

Imagine if TR got the highest damage weapon in a couple of categories.

NC and VS would flip out and QQ all over the forum.

This would probably result in TR getting nerfed back even more.

All factions suffer from this but i think TR suffer the most in this aspect

Double posting because the edit function doesn't work on my browser:

TR trait should be not having a trait... it should be versatility. Versatility with RoF, damage, mag size, attachments, etcetc. They should be the most customizable faction.

Cuz really, as they are, they are lackluster. And the proof is in the numbers. People don't play TR cuz TR sucks. You can stomp your feet and say "TR is fine" on the forums all you want - but then how come no one plays them?

good spot, you are right the VS weapons need a MASSIVE reduction on ROF, the TR are suppose to be the kings of ROF, the VS are suppose to be accurate, and the NC are damage. why does the VS have weapons that fire just as fast as the TR. that totally ruins the roles of each faction. fix the VS accuracy at range, but reduce their rate of fire, NO ONE should shoot more bullets than TR, NO ONE!!! no one should be more accurate than the VS, and no one should have a weapon more damaging than the NC. SOE if you can't follow your own story line of the factions, then i want the titan cannon the NC have on the TR, and i want the Orion accuracy on the TR chaingun. then that way maybe all the people on the boards will either complain less.

this game is NOT about weapon balance, it never has been, it has always been, big bullet, tons of bullets, or accuracy of bullet. this game feels like the cry babies are winning, and the more they cry on the board the more they win.

please SOE, focus on keeping things factions specific, and if that is to difficult, then atleast raise the TE's rate of fire by 50 to 150 to compensate adn make the TR the bullet spammers they should be just like PS1.

I don't think your "facts" are that kind of facts. The efficacy of foregrips versus compensators on TR and NC weapons is not a hard fact like gravity but a personal opinion and to suggest otherwise is a little dishonest imo.

As it happens I also disagree (as have others in this thread) that the current state of TR faction weapon traits should dictate the future state.

this statement is a true statement, i support this statement and would like to see the TR placed back into the competition of the war.

unless... SOE even hates TR too... that could be another possibility.

Heres the comparison in ROF between factions
NOTE: I removed 'burst' variants from the equation. I feel that, since they are just copies of the default gun that burst, they distort the results and don't autofire anyway. It was not done with the intention of skewing the data in one way or another.
ANOTHER NOTE: I used the wiki for this info. I tried to double check data, but feel free to correct me where I'm wrong!
ALSO: I didn't feel like doing SMGS. Sue me.

Carbines

• TR- 730
• NC- 614.4
• VS- 714.4

Assault Rifles

• TR- 738.6
• NC- 645.4
• VS- 665.6

Light Machine Guns

• TR- 680
• NC- 584.33
• VS- 654.167

Total average between all guns

• tr- 716.2
• nc- 614.71
• vs- 678
• ***not wholly accurate b/c i counted 6 LMGs, but weighed them equally

In conclusion, I concede to Aegie. Tr does have an advantage in rate of fire, which means theres even less to complain about for the TR. yay.
VS weapons are the 'average'
NC weapons are 'below average'
TR weapons are 'above average'

The differences between the tr and vs are pretty low though. nothing to write home about. Not a surprise in a game trying to create a balanced environment.

Fact horizontal grip mitigates horizontal recoil.
All I said about compensators were that the disadvantage is bigger which I stated was specifically my opinion.

I wasn't sure how you could disagree with my opinion as a whole. If what you mean was compensater vs grip. thats fair. Its just my opinion.

Yes there is an identity issue here. Our guns looks all the same, which may not have been so bad, except the fact that the models our guns share LOOK LIKE DICKS! They are the WORST gun models I have EVER SEEN IN A SHOOTER GAME! Further more, several of our guns sound WAY TO SIMILAR, and SEVERAL of our guns (namely carbines + MSWR sound) don't even sound like guns, they sound like @#$%!!!Our fraction specific traits ARE NOT EVEN FRACTION SPECIFIC!

Yea and NC would be hung up if they gave us a 200 damage LMG. NC gets to dip into our faction traits without giving up any ground. I want the fastest carbine or I want a 200 LMG. Why are there no lines drawn?

1 category, not a couple and 1 weapon.

You're right, people would be upset but this is not an accurate way to portray the situation because TR have ROF and Mag ammo. There is no NC/VS counterpart to TR that has more ammo in the mag anywhere.

For that matter, why not complain that NC are "hard-hitting" yet do less damage than TR. NC is damage right? Oh wait, no we're not we're the "3 automatics that have 200 damage per shot (and low DPS)" and "useless shotguns on vehicles" faction right. See, I can say those things and sure there is something to those statements- they just are not productive, not constructive, and do nothing to try and improve the state of the game.

You're right to be miffed about the 7F and Serpent- just do not overstate the case because it really is not that big of a deal especially when you have 2 positive traits compared to 1. NC have damage per shot and yet this 1 trait is only "best in class" for 3 weapons in the entire game that lag behind three other categories equal across empires and the damage per shot of these weapons is less than half that of an NS weapon available to any faction, any class, all the time.

Is that a big deal either? No, not really, but it is equally as legitimate as the complaint against the 7F and Serpent. Just like it is equally as legitimate as the complaint from VS that no bullet drop is meh on just about everything that has no bullet drop.

Take this information and do something constructive with it. Propose, for instance, a new round of Carbines, 1 for each faction, that really show faction distinctiveness- i.e. one for TR that has more than 845RPM, one for NC that is semi auto and really hard hitting, and one for VS that is nearly hitscan or something along those lines.

Otherwise, it really comes off as just stamping your feet and not contributing positively to improvements.

The NC and VS getting a 845 rpm weapon is similar to the TR and VS getting 200 dmg weapons. Or the TR and NC getting weapons with no bullet drop (I doubt anyone would care, lol). Its kinda weird when you look at it since it makes very little sense for faction traits. So yeah, I want my 200 dmg carbine.

Let me introduce you to the 450 damage per shot NS pistol that is more than twice the damage per shot of any of the 3 unique NC weapons.

It feels different because you play a different faction- similar complaints can be made by members of all factions, that you cannot see that or evaluate one as better/worse than another is just your emotions talking.

Huh, if the TR is an identity crisis, just be glad you don't have an identity. I played the NC for a year and just about everyone sums up their identity in one word: ________.

I don't even have to spell it out for you, you are already thinking what that word is. And playing that identity sucks. And you want to complain that others have high rate of fire in one category? Everyone has access to the word I didn't type except for one case and its practical application to the battlefield is so narrow, its "Woo! Gotcha!" approximately %25 of engagement locations due to base and terrain design and "Damn it, just not enough to put them down!" for the rest - a lot of HAs prefer to just run around with a SMG instead.

Besides, pew pew identity is always going to come down to "Can I kill the other guy before they kill me", essentially there is not enough variance in desirable out comes to have a whole lot of identity for anyone because anything that starts to stand out as identifiable becomes labeled Over Powered. Hell, it could be construed that complaining about lack of identity is just a veiled plea to be Over Powered.

Screw that.

Instead, there is a ton of desirable variance possible in movement. All of it seems to revolve around speed but does it have to? The NC shields could have significantly more variance, a wall type, a dome type, etc. Even many VS I recall were wondering where the improved jump was rather than the run speed on their MAX.

Well I ask you, where is the maghook grappling gun? The sticky goo gun? The wall jump boots? The rappelling harness and rope? The bouncy shield? The Galaxy skyhook? The teleporter gun? The no fall damage Flash? And so on...