Does scout radar need a counter?

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Get2dachoppa, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Cyrek

    Theres a counter, its called decoy grenades, but its 10 second duration its very short lived to my satisfaction, only the best radar joes will take a look into it, not the dumb joes.
  2. Aimeryan

    Seriously people, say (and apologise) when you haven't read all of the thread. It is common forum etiquette so that people reading your post (which is in direct contradiction to earlier provided evidence) wont think they have missed something that corrects what was said earlier in the thread.

    On topic, they don't work. They seemingly never have. No one even knows how big the radius is because no one can get the decoy to make any blips. Maybe they would be a counter, but who knows?

    However, even if they did work they may not be an effective counter. If the radius is too small they will not effectively cover where you are (instead they'll just attract people to you even more so). It is not unlikely that the radius may indeed be small because they are designed to simulate a small scale firefight with the idea that you throw it in another direction away from you, i.e., as a diversion, not to cover a large area that you are in with fake radar signatures to cover your own signature. They are decoys, not jammers.

    You also have the problem that they don't last long and you have a very limited supply.
    • Up x 1
  3. Bill Hicks

    I dont want to waste a implant slot just to counter something that needs to be scaled way back. There is too much radar.
    • Up x 1
  4. Erendil

    Haven't had time to read the thread yet so forgive me if this has already been suggested....

    Euth has a very good point. The fact that you dont know that you're showing up on Scout Radar makes a bad situation for cloakers even worse. So, how about we let Infils have a "Radar detected" warning flash akin to the lock-on warning flash that vehicles get?

    That plus the Silent Run implant should be enough of a counter. Even if you do show up on Radar you can still cloak.

    That said, I stil lthink they should make a second infil suit you could cert into that'd let you stay cloaked all the time so long as you're not sprinting. But I wouldn't want that suit capable of carrying any weapon larger than a pistol. Even the current infil suit worn by someone w/ an SMG is scary to go up against in the right hands, and with pistols like the Underboss now available........
  5. Being@RT

    Knowing when you're being picked up on radar could be an infiltrator class feature all on its own.
    With coordination it even provides team utility.

    With cert investment it could show the location of the radar (increasing range of detection with cert level). Shouldn't be too powerful considering the AV capabilities of an infiltrator.

    Non-functional while in a vehicle.
  6. RoMoronik666

    +1 to 'Radar Alert' for infiltrators.

    I dont think it should be an implant or tool. It should be an ongoing passive effect.
  7. Helwyr

    Higby confirmed on the MMORPG.com interview that implants will cost Certs/SC and be on a timer. So, it's not a case of just a "wasted slot".

    Like you said there's way too much radar, it's cheap, shared, and pervasive. So, it's completely unacceptable to have the counter to that have an ongoing Cert/SC cost as Implants will do. So, I think now that we know this, anyone claiming Implants are the answer to radar can be dismissed as players that just don't want an effective Infantry counter to radar.
  8. HeadshotVictim

    an ability that shows infiltrators that they are under radar scrutiny would be a cool thing.
    Perhaps not a minimap marker but an arrow pointing in the general direction of the radar device.
    the range increases with levels...

    I think this would be actually a good idea though... in direct contradiction with one of my earlier posts, that radar needs no counter.
    (Well i think it doesn't NEED a counter, but a "you just got radared"-warning would be a really nice idea.)
  9. urida

    That is legitimately fascinating. i never thought about but there is no defense against scout radar. In addition you don't even know its there. Kudos on noticing this.
    It would be nice if there was some way to know there was scout radar in the area, something subtle just so you could attempt to "defend" against it.
  10. Helwyr

    Infiltrators don't need a radar detector they need to be able to remove themselves from passive radar. Scout Radar is usually everywhere players are in any real numbers. So how exactly is a Infiltrator tool to tell a player they're on radar going to help? Why is it even necessary in terms of gameplay to show where everyone is on the mini map Infiltrator or otherwise? Radar is bad gameplay to begin with.
  11. Ronin Oni

    I think Infiltrators and LA could use a new Suit Option (taking place of Flak or Nanoweave) to keep them from being spotted from any form of Radar like the Stealth Defense slot for vehicles.

    They could still be spotted manually by an enemy pressing 'Q', or by firing their weapon without a silencer. This would only counter Scout/Proximity Radar and the Infil radar dart and cost 50-150 certs (only 1 level... nothing to rank up)
    • Up x 1
  12. deggy

    Just add a Stealth Suit option for the Infiltrator that prevents radar at its first level and causes spots to last less time at subsequent levels. At max level, the Infiltrator becomes unspottable, meaning that an Infil with a silenced gun and maxed-out stealth will NEVER show on the minimap.
    • Up x 1
  13. Braddigan

    Hmm...perhaps we should just alter the way the scout radar works so that it doesn't pick up stationary targets. That would at least lighten the burden on infiltrators somewhat while still maintaining the usefulness of the radar in heavy combat situations. On the flip side, it's true that ESFs with scout radar do not have flares, so you could always shoot at it with guided rockets if you can hack a terminal, even targeting it should get it to flee pretty fast. Those ESF pilots don't want their aircraft to take any damage now, do they?

    - Braddigan
  14. Stinneyt

    I like the idea of an indicator to show you are visible on radar.
    Also I think some way for infiltrators to be shielded from radar would be good. Maybe something that can be used in place of the recon dart device. So you have so many charges of something that temporarily masks your radar image.

    I dont think that would be out of balance. You trade the possibilty of providing recon for the ability to hide from recon.
    • Up x 1
  15. HeadshotVictim

    infiltrator CAN shield themselves against it...
    Hit "F" get shielded from radar... just saying
    (Sigh, I know the hate train is now incoming, but it is as it is... the friggin cloak DOES remove you from Radar... yes it needs Nanites, but so does jetpack, HA shields and Medic Heal Aura)
  16. Braddigan

    The cloak is indeed useful in escaping from radar when in a heavy combat situation with multiple other possible targets for the ESF or infantry. Particularly in the case of the ESF though, if you are in a medium or low combat situation you might as well not bother - they know where you are, they will wait for your cloak to deactivate, and you cannot get away from them in 12 seconds.

    You need allies (with AA) to help you there, I'm afraid. By itself the cloak isn't a very good counter for it. Now if you could disappear from radar by sitting still, you'd force the ESF to actually look for you, and maybe you could escape through careful use of the cloak and being stationary.

    - Braddigan
  17. Helwyr

    If the only form of radar in the game worked like the recon dart you'd have a great point, but it doesn't.

    Scout radar is cheap to cert, available to everyone, shared with all friendlies, and is always on.

    Infiltrator Cloak is available to one class, has penalties associated with it, is not shared, and last 12 seconds.
  18. zaspacer

    I highly recommend hitting <ESC>, Logout (or <Home> [Instant Action] or <Delete> [Redeploy]) when locked down by an ESF (or other unit(s) in a no-escape scenario).

    * <ESC>, Logout is a faster method to exit an engagement than Redeploy or Instant Action.
    * Logout + Login + Deploy is a faster method to redeploy than Redeploy as there is no timer countdown to get to the redeploy screen (just load time from logging in to and from the character screen).
    * In the new Lattice System it's trivial to re-deploy back to the same area in most cases.
    * Logout will make you vanish to foes so, if it starts being used lots by players in the future, foes will start to accept maybe you've left even in cases where you don't and they will be more likely to give up looking for you.
    * If it starts being used a lot by players in the future, some foes won't even bother chasing you down even when they spot you if they'd have to hunt you down and there is a good chance you'd just exit before they could get you.

    All players have an effective teleport in Logout, <Home> (10 Second Instant Action), and <Delete> (10 Second Re-Deploy). Infils have a huge advantage using this teleport because their cloak lasts 12 seconds, so they can cloak up and then "teleport" out before they're visible by radar or uncloaked again.
  19. Braddigan

    Mm...okay. Redeploying or logging out is fair enough I suppose. I wouldn't log out though, that just seems a bit cheap to me I guess. As for redeploying, yeah, I've done that before. Sometimes you just have to, and I'm sure I have incurred a fair amount of pilot wrath by doing so.

    - Braddigan
  20. zaspacer

    Totally understand your distaste for the logging out thing. I will have to watch myself on that going forward, and make sure to be "fair" about allowing the opponent to kill me in cases where they otherwise have me beat.

    Cloak into Instant Action I suppose is more of a standard game action, and has a built in time delay, so it's more "fair" in terms of using it vs. an opponent. But it stinks that you are teleporting into unkown circumstances.

    Cloak into Redeploy I think leaves you sitting there while the map options countdown timers run down. So it's a much slower and more vulnerable option than Logout or Instant Action.

    Logout is consistently the most user friendly exit-re-enter method: fastest out, fastest back into game that is not random. But if it hurts the game by annoying players, then I'll stop doing it and just eat the bullet: dying is also a fast way to exit and re-enter the game.