Do shotguns need more effective range?

Make up arguments? You were basically saying you wanted to be able to run around and kill people with shoguns at any range, I was also mostly talking about the pump actions since they are the only ones that you should be using. Yes the Shogun Nerf sucks, they're promising changes with the laser sight to make them better, but they should not be able to hold their own at range, that would make players think they are OP. If you perform poorly, maybe it's your skills and not the weapon that need change. Shotguns require skill as you need to find a way to close your gap on a target, then sneak to the next one after killing him. Map and situational awareness are the cornerstones of a good shotgun user. BTW, I have auraxiumed the armistice, the Sirius, blitz, cyclone and hailstorm, (the NS ones I hate and the eridani is a bad Sirius, so I didn't bother) before you start telling me to try SMGs. Nothing beats a pump action at close range. Try with adrenaline and catlike on LA or HA. If you still want range on shotguns you're really dumb or you want them OP.

I just wish it wasn't a matter of Luck in CQC with a shotgun.
Every little movement causes a severe change in those ranges, unlike at a distance.
A shotgun already has been... modified... to sacrifice the close-range capability just for a little distance.

Said distance is better achieved with your side-arm, or different weapon.
A shotgun should kill in CQC if aimed at the target properly, since it is designed for that.
It already shouldn't be used and is impractical at a distance, as that isn't what it is for.

If you can close the gap, that took skill or incompetence of the enemy.
Shouldn't need luck, just to win in designed range of the weapon.
Want longer range? Use a different Gun.
Can't close the distance? Plan a different route, use a sidearm, or rethink present tactic.

However, NC max AI weapons.. rather than need range, they need to not be all shotguns.

Ahhhh, the wonders of paraphrasing...

Yes I am talking about shotguns being able to kill people at any range. but not that they should be more powerful than other weapons at those ranges. You assumed that I want to have OHK power at range, which I don't. I'm talking about trade offs. Even the SMG can be used at range to some extent. It's not good at it, but it's possible and you can even win fights with it if things are enough in your favor.
The shotgun doesn't have that, and it's CQC firepower even before the nerf wasn't extremely good. And the OHK power of shotguns other than the pump-action is grossly overrated. It's more likely that most of these "OHK" moments were 2-shot-kills that took the latency time before the first hit came. And guess what? Carbines can also kill you within that time, but at longer ranges!

Why "should" you be using only those?
The semi-auto shotguns for example are (or at least were) great for their massive ammo capacity. And if you finally do get in a position where you can kill enemies and they don't notice/shoot you immediately then you want to have as much ammo as possible.

It's very easy for you to bend all my arguments simply because you are talking about only 1/3rd of the shotguns available, and not tell me that you are only talking about 1/3rd of the shotguns because you have a belief that only that type of shotgun is viable. Especially since if you look up the stats most of these shotguns score about the same with the exception of the starter shotguns, which are the only one's used by "lots" of people and for some "strange" reason only a handful of people ever picks up another shotgun.

Players think they are OP anyway. The numbers don't lie: For a weapon with a unique usage that's supposedly OP practically no one uses it. Players will prefer to buy and use an SMG (more usage time better KPU and KPH in the old system), which is nothing more than a retooled automatic weapon that every class already gets in the form of LMG's, AR's or Carbines. Why could that be eh? Why could players think a unique weapon type is OP, and then few people use the unique "OP" type and most people prefer a not OP weapon that's not even unique in it's usage to other weapons?

Because shotguns don't have the firepower to justify their shorter range, and shotguns are the only CQC weapon that isn't capable of being used at longer ranges without being forced to nerf the weapon CQC damage output before leaving the spawnroom, which pretty much defeats the entire purpose of a shotgun as you describe it eh?

I perform pretty damn good with an average of A or A+ for most of my shotgun stats, and I've auraxed all LA shotguns already. Which means I've outperformed your shotgun capabilities by a fair margin. So don't come with that kind of crap reasoning.

Well I understand that you've never seen me talk about shotguns before. I know that shotguns require SA to win, to outplay your opponent, and the luck you need not to get discovered at the wrong time. I also know that shotguns are the best way to teach players what other skills are important because most of the dummies think it's all about cover, trigger discipline (if that) and pointing your crosshair at the opponent. I'm also auraxiuming my SMG's, having done all but the PDW and the auraxium version of the NC. But give me a few weeks and I've finished those two as well. And once again I'm gathering above average stats, so I know what I'm doing better than the average Joe. And in the end most of these weapons need to be tooled to the average Joe rather than the top players.

And no I'm not dumb, I know what I'm talking about. Just the fact that you discard 2/3rd of the shotguns and only talk about 1/3rd that are useful according to you should get all your alarm bells running. "I don't look at 2/3rd of the shotguns, could at least 2/3rd of the shotguns be underpowered then? Should 2/3rd of the shotguns at least get an upgrade then?"

And even the pump-actions don't really outperform most other weapons. The biggest problems of shotguns are their lack of CQC power compared to other weapons, yes they are "king" but only marginally so, and their lack of ranged versatility that every other weapon in the game does have.

But let's turn it around: The shotgun usage is extremely low, how would you change shotguns to make them equally used as other weapons? Let's pick SMG's as the category they need to equal.

At what point does this become impossible to defend other than by endless countering?

Bruiser One-Shot Point Blank Damage: 1,375 damage
Cyclone One-Shot Point Blank Damage: 167

"marginally better at CQC"

Just like every other shotgun...ever.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-20-buckshot-patterns/

This isn't about credible shotgun performance in a shooting game. This is about people that don't want to be punished for having the wrong weapon at the wrong time, and refusal to obey combined arms law in a combined arms game.


For those that didn't watch the video, here is the truth about what to expect from a shotgun:

1. At close range, reduced recoil loads seem to shoot a tighter pattern. But the difference is small, i.e., 1 3/4 to 4 inches. As always, you have to aim a shotgun at close range. The patterns are tight.
2. At moderate ranges (20 yards), the loads had an average spread of around 9 to 17 inches. This is getting big enough that, unless carefully aimed, many pellets will miss a bad guy.
3. 3. At long ranges, even 45 yards, you will miss with more pellets that you will hit with. The question might be, “Why would you shoot at someone at 45 yards?” Well, if he is at 45 yards and shooting at me, I will return fire. If a shotgun is all I have, I will use that. But understand that you will have a lot of missed pellets.

Put them in the Secondary Slot. Usage will skyrocket, but the Commissioner will still have them beat.

Hell ye they should.

RIP: Richard Machowicz

That would be a sweet directive weapon. "The Saltshaker"

Since we're still arguing about this, I'd like to point something out that some seem to be missing:

It's just a game.

Leave all preconceived notions of how real world firearms work at the door. Yes, in real life, shotguns are the most versatile weapon available. With a Mossberg 500 and different barrels and shells I could conceivably have a weapon that was excellent for home defense (think cqc) or even accurate to 100 yards (rifled barrel, sabots, decent scope).

It's actually quite silly that things are considered balanced. I'm a combat vet. I come from a military family. My dad was coowner of a gun store that sold Class III weapons. The silliness works for the most part though, you just have to look at it with a serious suspension of disbelief.

take the "A" and "E" out of range and that is what shotguns may need less of ...

Lol man, don't bother reasoning with him he doesn't understand what he's talking about.

Actually, its omen who doesnt understand it, and by extention you
I mean you are agreeing with a guy who is purposefully ignoring RPM and effective range to prove his point. If you really agree with that you are truly lost on ahotguns.

But Yeah, its hard to reason with me if half the arguments/reasons "I" give are made up by you.

At some point she'll do some research on shotgun performance, and connect an expectation of credible weapon performance to the new-found knowledge.

Will she admit, it? Probably not. Those are the times we live in.

True and then blames it on us saying we "make up"what she said.