Do shotguns need more effective range?

Do shotguns need more range?
You joking?

They need to not ******* suck in CQC when being outdpsed by an LMG FFS.

They just need to work right.

Although I totally agree there are idiots that think shotguns are OP and require no skill to use and these waste of sperms should not be allowed to own PCs, I must inform you shotguns are totally not versatile, and should not and were never meant to be. Shotguns are the opposite of SMGs, inflicting massive damage in one shot with the trade-off of low rate of fire. This would be ok if shotguns fired a single shot, instead they fire off many pellets that scatter randomly and have large damage drop after a few metres. This means they can't be adapteble and shouldn't be, they, in the hands of a skilled player outperform anything up close. IIt is also not customizable, the only attachement that should be used is extended mags, laser doesn't do anything rn. Slug ammo is not a viable option, and many weapons outperform slug shotguns. Add that to the fact that there are no muzzle attachments, shotguns aren't meant to be versatile. I would however like to see a smark choke and change to laser sights on shotguns. However, making shotguns versitile would be ruining their only purpose, to be the best up close.

You hit the nail on the head, shotguns in the game aren't versatile, yet.
But shotguns should be getting the most types of ammunition for different tasks. Shotguns should also be just as versatile as any other weapon out there! And since even the CQC SMG can hit and kill targets well outside of it's effective range (naturally at a disadvantage), why shouldn't the shotgun have the same? Simply because it fires single shot pellet spread? That's not logical. In the past it barely outperformed automatic weapons in CQC, now it's even harder. So why should the shotgun have such big drawbacks? You could control the choke by reducing the pellet spread when in ADS, or allow switching on the fly to solid slugs. With tube-fed weapons you could allow the player to load in special ammo types separately so you can fire one special and then be firing normal ammo immediately afterwards.

There is a reason why close assault teams are armed with shotguns and rifles.

Shotguns are not versatile. They do one thing well: deliver alpha damage at close range.

We observe, *again*, the carebear faction arguing for a case that does not punish poor weapon selection and lack of teamwork.

This is especially ironic, given the mis-named "combined arms initiative" that is pending.

This thread is a special case, because the carebear faction is being championed by a person that has never seen a shotgun work in real life.

I've been meaning to post about this for ages, but figured it would never gain any traction. The community is irrationally conservative.

Shotguns are not fun to use for me. Obviously some people like them as they are, but frankly it's not hard to have our cake and eat it too. Right now, shotguns are not only reliant on RNG (so you are gambling on a kill, which doesn't belong in a 'competitive' game) they're extremely binary. Either you're within 10-15m range and decimate someone, or you tickle them. Slugs fix this to a degree, but plopping on 100 extra certs to every shotgun plus taking away options is also not very fun.

What I'd like to see is shotguns get their base damage reduced severely, but then get normal (2x) headshot multiplier; you can still oneshot up close, but you gotta actually aim. Then, their spread becomes far tighter, about half the current spread, and becomes more predictable (but still affected by aim bloom like other weapons), and its damage falloff becomes more like a sub-machine gun (6-42m or more). Slugs would obviously need to be adjusted to keep it as a less damaging but more consistent option; this also paves the way for more ammo like flechettes that act as HV ammo (more velocity+better damage falloff, less maxdamage range/base damage), and high gauge shot (that behaves more like current shotguns for those who want it; less accurate, worse at range, but high damage).

Why? This makes shotguns far more skill based; they're still dedicated close combat weapons, but now you aren't forced to use a commissioner to fight at range. You have to go for headshots like other weapons, and are rewarded for doing so. If you miss with a shotgun, you're to blame, and not the sheer inaccuracy of the weapon.

It may seem overkill to buff both pellet spread and damage falloff, but consider this: giving a weapon both pellet spread and damage falloff means that unlike other weapons, your damage output at range decreases exponentionally, not linearily. This is a disappointingly common mistake in games and it always results in boring shotguns that are incredibly binary, as they are now.

Will this impede on SMG territory? Honestly, no. Shotguns are still high alpha weapons with stricter damage falloff and inefficiency (missing pellets = missing damage); they also play totally differently given the disparity in number of shots.

This is an excellent example of argument for an arbitrary change in order to satisfy the wishes of one person.

But are SMGs one or 2 shot kills up close? I think not. Each weapon should be versatile to some extent, however that means they shouldn't excel in any situation. Shotguns are devestating up close, it's only logical they perform poorly at range. (Keep in mind there's already slugs). You shouldn't be running around with a one shot kill up close that can still hold up past its designated range. You're the one not logical here, if you wanna fight up close, get shotgun or SMGs (which don't perform as well up close with the trade-off of being ok at medium ranges) if you wanna fight at range, get a carbine? I mean, shotguns aren't logically supposed to be versitile, it's in the design. They never should and never will be able to adapt to all the situations BECAUSE THEY WERE ONLY MEANT TO EXCEL UP CLOSE (A SPECIFIC SITUATION) WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT? The thing is daybreak listens to people like you and then all the veterans wonder wtf A TANK ROUND NO LONGER ONE SHOTS INFANTRY after they implement your stupid ideas in the game.

Yeah man, it also works with SMGs, you miss your shots there's no damage. Dude, do you realize you're asking the devs to basically make shotguns OP because you want to not only one shot people up close but also from far away? Am I the only one that thinks you're dumb?

Even in the old system, only the pump-action could OHK unless you did a headshot at knife-range with one of the other shotguns. This is probably one of the most difficult things to pull off in the game.

And even the best of the best with shotguns got around a 3-hit kill on average. Besides that a 2-hit kill still is only marginally faster than an SMG, especially if you go for headshots with the SMG.

So all you are left with is an SMG that can get similar TTK's in CQC as a shotgun (especially now with the new system) and better TTK's at range. Giving the SMG better power regardless of how you use it. This makes the shotgun both less powerful and less versatile, which murders shotgun usage.

My dear god, where did you get that idea from? Ofcourse the shotgun shouldn't excell in any situation! That's why slugs are less powerful overall than just about any automatic weapon at range unless your target is standing still.

I even make note of that just about in any post I make about this subject: A CQC Carbine is best in CQC, but it's still capable at range. Is it better at range than mid/long range weapons? Ofcourse not! It's most likely to lose, but it's not defenseless. And that's what I'm asking for. Why do you create this idea that I want shotguns to be more powerful than anything at any range? You are for some reason creating an image in your head that I'm unreasonable.

Keyword: Poorly.
Just about any weapon is devastating up close. Pistols, SMG's, LMG's, AR's. It doesn't matter what version you pick, they are all deadly. And the mid/long range versions have the advantage that they are much better at headshotting in CQC due to their increased accuracy. So they don't trade much.
In reverse from CQC to long range you lose a lot more. This is why many mid/long range weapons have gotten nerfs to make them less universally capable. But nothing loses out as much as the shotgun. It doesn't just "perform poorly", it becomes completely and utterly useless. And all that for a marginal and with the update practically non-existant advantage of "devastating up close". I've said this before: The biggest and practically only advantage of shotguns is that they carry LMG amounts of damage per magazine.

Newsflash: Only the pump-action could OHK up close, the others could OHK with a headshot, and if you got killed by that then you should be taking your hat off in respect for that guy. But that's not possible anymore. Meaning only the pump-action can still OHK. Yet you are arguing that shotguns can still OHK and that they should sacrifice 100% of everything else to be capable of that.

And again I'm not asking for shotguns to keep their OHK at long range. Really where do you get those idea's? I'm asking for shotguns to be capable at range. To have the potential of defending themselves. That's why one of the examples I gave for an upgrade would be the ability to switch to slugs. Can slugs OHK? Nope! Did I ask for slugs to get the power to OHK? Nope! So where did you get the idea I want shotguns to keep their non-existant OHK at range?

If you make up half of my arguments for me, then yes I'm not logical. If you actually read what I'm about I am logical.

Try using SMG's more then. Or any other weapon for that matter.

They were meant to excell up close which they ******* don't, what's so hard to understand about that? I'm only asking for the capability to fight at range, not super-powerful ranged OHK for shotguns, what's so hard about that?

Seriously go read everything I said again. The thing is Daybreak listens to people like you who have to make up arguments for their opposition just to be capable of "countering" their arguments.

The gods of arbitrary smile on this.
The people that argue for ridiculous weapon abilities should study real life weapon performance before posting.


It is not hard to find information:
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-20-buckshot-patterns/

Hey Forum

i've been maining shotgun since 2012 and i'd like to tell you a bit about my experiences i've had with playing as a Shotgun Heavy and Engineer.
You can view my stats here: https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428010917253326017/weapons
I have been accused of cheating multiple times over the years but at this point in time i don't reply to those anymore.
I never have, and never will, use slugs on Shotguns so i can only say this for CQC 1-30 meters.

I've never played anything besides NC so i cannot say how the other factions are regarding shotguns.

So, at the start the shotgun was pretty much OP - no doubt about that - and they had to be nerfed to some degree.
Playing with the Sweeper, which could kill anything and everything in a 25 meter radius, only a MAX unit could effectively counter that.
Sony must've noticed this at some point in time and they nerfed it again and again.

Some years later i changed to Heavy Assault with the GD-66 Claw and sometimes the Jackhammer equiped.
The thrill of having only a limited amount of shots to kill somebody, and not having the leisure missing any of it since you would lose the fight, is to this day still a lot of fun to me.

At this point (i think it was 2014-ish) the Shotgun still only had the MAX Unit as a counter in CQC.
But this was Okay, because an LMG should not be able to win a CQC battle with a Shotgun.
Like i said, you only have a limited amount of shots, which you are not allowed to miss. Those have to hit hard.
The LMG can shoot a long, long time and can reload very fast - which is not possible with a Pump-Action Shotgun.
Having the skill to hit all of them should be rewarded to the player.
But Sony decided that they need to be nerfed even more to make it more "balanced" in CQC.

Time became even rougher and having to 3 shot somebody who is 10-20 meters away from you and NOT MISS ANYTHING was very hard.
Sadly, in 2014 or 2015 the server lag made Shotgun Heavy unplayable. Over 30% of my shots didn't register.
The enemy was sometimes right in front of me and the server thought I didn’t hit him.
That made it unplayable for me and i took a year off of Planetside 2.

I think it was in 2016 when they managed to fix the lag a little bit i think.
I came back and the Shots did register again, but it was still noticeable sometimes.
It is very hard these days to play against Heavy TR/VS because their LMG will kill me faster than i can shoot (and server register) him even though he is only 10-15 meters in front of me.
This is not was should happen. The Shotgun is supposed to be the King of the Hill in CQC.
I would love to see somebody from the DBG team play a little bit of Shotgun and see that Shotguns nerfs have been too much.
The Shotgun needs to have a buff for the 10-30 meter Range.

I would also like to point out that whoever thought putting 2 shotguns on one weapon as a directive reward was a "good" idea should be fired immediately.
Seeing the shotguns from the other factions made me reconsider playing on NC because i wanted to try out those.

So, all in all I can safely say that currently the Shotguns are underpowered because the developers didn’t include LAG, RELOAD TIME and MAGAZINE SIZE into their calculation.

The NC are the only faction with unique shotguns outside of the Directive weapons, that is, their AI MAX arms, the Jackhammer, and the Mag-Scatter. Excepting those weapons, all factions have shotgun options that are statistically equivalent.

The NC Shotgun directive weapon is a total **** You in the face of players who completed the directive.
This weapon is not usable in real combat. It has only 8! rounds and the barrelattachmentshotgun will kill you by the time you can shoot its one shot.
This is not what i would expect from a Directive Weapon. I wouldn't mind if TR or VS got a variant of the Jackhammer as a Directive weapon. But a Shotgun on a Shotgun is a complete joke.

Major problem with shotguns is the spread sending bullets outside the circle. The spread is so random and so unreliable, that is very common to have half of the pellets going outside the crosshair. In my opinion is not range that shotguns need, but a more consistent shooting mechanic.

Custom made stuff. I wonder how much it costs.





This triple barrel is for $66000.


Another fünfling.

Check the link I provided above to learn about shotgun spread.

Nice link, but I was speaking about the current in-game mechanic for shotguns which is more in-depth explained on this post:
http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/shotguns/
Currently in Planetside 2, that circle on the screen when you use a shotgun does not represent where the gun is shooting not by far.

I just tested it. At ranges I would consider effective, all pellets land inside circle.