[Suggestion] Do not nerf shotguns.

Don't nerf shotguns. They're not the problem. They do what they're supposed to do and do it well. The problem is that you (SOE) foolishly set the TTK in this game so low that most people die before they can react to a pump action shotgun, semi-automatic shotgun, automatic shotgun, or a scattergun MAX.

Based on previous numbers submitted by people with spreadsheets, the fastest carbine in the game kills players in .43 seconds. This leaves the design space for weapons designed to excel in close quarters combat to kill within 0 and .42 seconds. Pump action shotguns have a TTK of click, or 0. Automatic shotguns (Pandora and the like) have a TTK of approximately .25 seconds if I recall correctly. Scat MAXes, designed to be close quarters nightmares, have a kill time of 0-.25 seconds depending on how the spread decides to roll. What you have done is essentially design yourselves into a corner by adding in weapons like this to a game with such low TTK.

Contrary to popular belief, SOE doesn't nerf based on the volume of forum complaints about particular weapons. They have very sophisticated data being gathered at all times from the happenings that you and I create while playing this engaging game. Their data has shown that shotguns and scattergun MAXes are performing better than they intended and are evidently leading the game down a path they don't want.

I propose rather than to change the damage, reload time, and other factors of shotguns that you simply double the TTK for all weapons except for direct hits from explosive vehicle weapons, bolt action vehicle weapons, and explosives such as mines and C4.

I feel that this would be an adequate place to start and could be further increased if testing and statistics deem it necessary. Pump action shotguns would still kill in two shots, or about half a second if memory serves. The fastest carbine would still kill in a little under a second. Shotguns would remain extremely effective in short range combat, but people would actually have the time to react to things happening around them rather than just instantly die. The cause of all the complaints aren't so much the weapons themselves but due to the fact that the TTK is designed in such a fashion that the weapons must kill a player instantly (or near instantly) in order to be effective when compared to other weapons. I feel that increasing the game's TTK would resolve the insta-gib issues the game has been facing as of late in addition to opening up more design space for future weapons or adjustments to existing weaponry (mutli-barrel Jackhammer shot please!).

Thanks for reading.

Ok thank you for making this thread. SOE will definitely see this and just because of this thread you made, they will not nerf them.

I'm so glad that I spent $$ so I could be SOE's beta tester.

I see your point but that is a change too drastic for them to ever impliment, im not saying i dont agree with you but the game is simi set and we can only hope for tweaks now

Yes. TTK is ridiculously similar to another game whose name I will not say. It's way too fast.

I'd say that the upcoming lattice change is an enormous undertaking for a live game. If they feel comfortable enough to do something like that I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a TTK overhaul.

But the lattice change does not change much, its mainly just a visual change, if all weapon ttk was changed then sooo many things would have to be rebalanced and we would be back to square 1...

Edit: just to clarify im not against the idea i just think its too late, its not an easy task

Do not change shotguns change base layout and ttk instead lol. Pretty much the definition of OP if you have to change everything else to accommodate 1 weapon.

The problem with them is that they have both the highest alpha strike, and DPS of close range weapons.

In almost any game, alphastrike is that forgotten little value..... That is all powerful.
Your first two hits DPS is ALWAYS much higher then your long term DPS, given your attacks do not wind up: The first attack takes no time.

A weapon with two hits to kill will kill twice as fast as its DPS would suggest it is capable of: It technically only has to have the delay of one shot take effect, resulting in twice as much DPS in your first two bullets then say... A burst of your entire magazine (Which will have much more Damage, but far less DPS.)

When two or fewer hits are needed to kill, TTK will be faster then inflicting 1K damage as your DPS would suggest....


Giving shotguns both DPS, and a low number of shots to kill eliminates the other CQC weapons potential to shine, especially when they are given the lowest skill cap with shot.

Now, the biggest issue is: How do we rebalance shotguns in a way that doesn't break them, but keeps them from becoming useless....

Some ideas:
Maintain DPS and magazine firing time on semi autos, while adding a third shot to the shots to kill, resulting in a 50% increase in TTK... increase magazine size by 50%, increase rof by 25%, reduce recoil by 30%. Semi auto shotguns would have a TTK of .3-.36 ideally, much more fair, while still being easier to use, lack of the ability to headshot with all pellets at the edges of cqc would balance them out (As headshotting would result in a faster TTK then the shotguns: Does it sound bad? Well, given that all headshots with an SMG only makes it theoretically tie with the weaker shotguns....)

Take a pellet off the pump actions pump, make it so it is countered by nanoweave when used with shot, resulting in a LAWNG TTK.
Its slug headshots would probably kill these people still..... Making it have potential for high skill players.

I see your point also, i think if it does happen it will be a gradual processs rather than a quick fix. just to clarify im on your side here i just cant see it happening quickly as you suggested.

Edit: it is already in the works from what i have read, shotguns are soon to be under the nerf hammer, the chalange will be nerfing them without making them worthless... we will see

Nah i say nerf all shotguns .

this is a great idea!
however it would probable be save to assume that the number of rounds in the mag might have to be increased.
CoF would also have to be played around with also, well maybe.

I want shotguns to be nerfed, and I am an active shotgun user. The Nighthawk is my most used weapon. Why this is? Becuase if I try to use any other weapon in CQC, the other guy is going to have a shotgun, and i'm not going to have a chance. I mean today, there was a sqaud, and I took them all out, just with a shotgun. It wasn't that I had more skill than them, it was that I had a shotgun. Now maybe i'll be able to use a carbine, or an SMG, which are more fun to use imo.

Only PA shotguns.. No one really had any complaint's before they added them ...

But I guess now to compensate ALL shotguns will have to maybe have lower damage so PA's remain the strongest after a nerf

Pls nerf SHOTTIES because someone OP'd me

Ban the OP, ban the freekin nubs, BAN everything...

Would bolt action sniper guns require 2 headshots? Maybe it takes 2 headshots but the first one will cause dizziness to the target instead of kill. A mild concussion effect.

If this was done on some experimental server I would be glad to test it. Perhaps the shortest way to change it all would be to double the hit points of players and double the damage of the few weapons that are supposed to OHK. Rather than going through the trouble of doubling all ~100 weapons. Longer TTK would increase the noticeable different in the DPS of weapons.

This is an issue for normal weapons. LMG might be too powerful because they might be the only weapons that actually has enough magazine to kill before reload.

Personally I hate the quick TTK of nearly all the weapons. It severely limits SOE from offering a true, wider variety of meaningful weapon choices based on personal preference. Everything is boxed into such a narrow band. In its current state a "twitchy" player's talent is mostly wasted in this game. Sure, good players will still do well but the adrenaline pumping moments that feed us are mostly missing here. First to shoot wins scenario makes the game less meaningful and less fun for the loser and the winner. COD generation players just don't understand what they are missing in slower TTK shooters. Bang bang dead respawn gets sooo old. But, it will likely never change in PS2 I suppose. We can just plug along and play a mostly decent game or move to a different one if it doesn't suit us. Every gamers idea of a winning formula is going to be different. Nothing wrong with that. But, I know I am right on this one.

I exempted bolt action headshots from the rule in my proposal. The latter part of your post is a problem many people with 30 round magazines on their carbines face every day. I don't think it would impact too much, but some weapon balancing would likely be necessary.

We can increase TTK over a series of gradual game updates, providing across the board reductions in weapons damages, with a few weapons adjusted for other factors being considered, and that could help us arrive at the slower TTK that could open the door for potentially interesting offensive and defensive loadouts. The real question is whether it could be done within a realistic model.

These changes would also mean changes to our healing and repairing utilities. The Medical Applicator, ACE tool, health kits and regen kits, all of these things could not be as effective as they are now and retain our new TTK for all things.

Yup. There would be a lot involved to make this successful but I think they could pull it off and it would better the game substantially after the initial pain of change.