Dispelling the Implant P2W Myth

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RyanGUK, May 20, 2014.

  1. RyanGUK

    Pay2Win is a term thrown around on this forum much too often, I'd say it's hit maximum usage since the introduction of Implants on PTS & ongoing present day. Here's something off the wikipedia page of Free-to-Play games just to touch on what people think:

    "In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.[25] Some suggest finding a balance between a game that encourages players to pay for extra content that enhances the game without making the free version feel limited by comparison."

    Now I'm going to tell you why Implants aren't pay to win by giving you a well-known example of Pay-to-Win in games.

    Once upon a time, there was a game called MechWarrior Online. The developers of MechWarrior online, a free-to-play game, thought to themselves one day, "I know what will be a really brilliant idea, we should backtrack on something we said we wouldn't do and put it in anyway for quick bucks!". This idea in question was something called a Cool Shot. Cool Shot was purchasable via either in-game currency or real world currency, and allowed the user to cool down their weapons allowing them to fire for longer (all weapons would overheat after some usage and would need to cool down, meaning if you have a Cooling system you can kill for longer).

    MechWarrior wiki says that you'd earn around 700,000 C-Bills (their version of in-game currency) every hour. You could get a "Cool Shot 9" for 40,000 C-Bills or a "Cool Shot 18" for 15MC (their version of real-world currency). You couldn't get Cool Shot 18 any other way, just by real world money. Just for a bit of added reference, 1250MC costs $7.00. That's a lot of Cool Shots.

    This is Pay to Win because you're allowing users to get the best of something by paying for it, and people that won't or can't pay have no way of getting Cool Shot 18, putting them at a significant disadvantage just because they didn't open their wallets.

    If you're more curious about what happened and the aftermath of said Cool Shot introduction, click the link: http://www.gamefront.com/mechwarrior-online-forum-ragesplosion/

    Now lets talk about Planetside 2 and Implants with this knowledge now bestowed upon us. Implants are obtainable through a variety of methods, you can:
    • Pay for Implants (for a 3-pack or 5-pack) using real world money (Station Cash).
    • Pay for Implants (for a 3-pack or 5-pack) using "in-game currency" (Cert Points).
    • Earn them in-game through supply drops based on (AFAIK) XP earnings, meaning double XP weekends are more Impalnt drops.
    There are 3 Tiers of Implants you can earn and they are accessible to everybody, paying or not. Now lets talk about batteries and how you can get them. You can:
    • Pay for batteries using real world money (Station Cash).
    • Pay for batteries using "in-game currency" (Cert Points).
    • Earn them in-game through supply drops based on (AFAIK) XP earnings, meaning double XP weekends are more battery drops.
    The only exception between Implants & Batteries is that Batteries are consumable. You can still earn them through the same manner as Implants, but it will take longer as a free-playing member than it would as a paying member. This leads to this summary I've been building up to:
    • There is a difference between paying to win and paying to get something quicker.
    • To pay for something instead of trying to earn it is a choice, as is choosing not to pay for anything in the game a choice.
    • Nobody forces a paying member to pay, if they feel they're at a disadvantage it's likely due to skill.
    • Implants are not a significant advantage over another player, an Implanted user will not survive a rocket to the face, bullet wounds or headshots from a non-Implanted user.
    • Users who are not paying will still earn Implants but at a slower rate, as with batteries.
    • Comparing Implants to what MechWarrior did, Implants aren't P2W because they can be earned through various methods, not just by real life money.
    Therefore, Implants are not Pay 2 Win, if anything they are Pay 4 Convenience.

    tl;dr Implants aren't P2W because you can earn them through other ways, MechWarrior gave best products to only paying users whereas Planetside 2 gives all products to all users. What MW did is P2W, not what Planetside 2 has now.

    One thing I would like to add though in a devils advocate sort of way is that Super Chargers are not available in the SC Shop. That needs to change to allow users who pay with certs to gain those chargers without having to go for the highest tier charger.

    If I've made any claims that you don't think I can back up or things I've said you don't agree with, let me know and I'll try my best to justify them. Thanks.
    • Up x 11
  2. asdfPanda

    Implants are pay to grind less. A LOT less.

    Some of them are broken as well.
    • Up x 8
  3. TotalNoob

    You forgot the part where people spend a lot of money on the best T3 implants and then SOE nerf them into oblivion only to bring out something almost the same that costs twice as much the following week.
    • Up x 3
  4. RyanGUK

    They aren't pay to grind less, there is the option of paying to grind less but isn't that the same for weapons as well? It costs about 1000 certs for one gun, for that amount of certs you could get 25 Implants.

    As for broke, do you mean bug-wise or the actual feature of it is crap?

    I don't think Implants can actually be nerfed into oblivion unlike weapons or abilities can. Maybe made less useful yes but I don't think the extreme situation you're thinking of which has happened to the likes of the Striker would ever happen.
    • Up x 2
  5. Xtrmviolence

    So a Tier 2 Implant use 0.75 Energy per second, 10k recharge cost 500 SC or 750 Cert. To maintain a tier 2 implant you need 202 CERT/135 SC per hours, not even talking about tier 3 implant. If you pay you will be able to run your implant more often i think this is exactly the definition of a Pay2Win.

    But at least you convinced yourself, good job on this soldier ! have fun arguing with yourself, NOW SUBSCRIBE !
    • Up x 11
  6. RyanGUK

    You missed the last part of my post clearly:

    "One thing I would like to add though in a devils advocate sort of way is that Super Chargers [and standard chargers I should've added in OP] are not available in the SC Shop. That needs to change to allow users who pay with certs to gain those chargers without having to go for the highest tier charger."

    That bit I do think is edging on Pay to Win. If they fix that, there's nothing wrong. If you pay in SC you will be able to run your Implant for longer sure, but you can use your certs to buy them as well. There's the option which doesn't make it as P2W as you suggest.

    If I brought the MechWarrior point into Planetside 2, it would mean you could only buy Ultra Chargers using SC. Now that's P2W.
    • Up x 1
  7. Jogido

    I sometimes wonder if people really experienced a true pay to win game. it's pretty blatant.

    Early on I got some weapon bundle specials for variety, but now I just want a kool helmet :)

    All the stuff that actually might makes you or a weapon better in a fight can be earned by certs only.,,,and even then a br 1 still has a chance against a br100
    • Up x 2
  8. Morti

    Combining a tier 3 and tier 2 implant gives you 10k recharge & while playing for tonight I continuously received free chargers, maintaining and even elevating my energy levels.
  9. RyanGUK

    I just posted something similar on Reddit which basically agrees with you:

    "That's the concern that I think everybody has. But in my opinion if you've got a T3 Implant, it's likely you've got a ton of Implants left from supply drops that you're not using because all you use is the best Implants. It only costs 2 Implants to craft a charger, I'd imagine there's a few chargers to be gained from that."
  10. z1967


    Seriously guys, implants were just released today to be used in a Live setting. I doubt anything serious is going to happen outside of forumside.
    • Up x 3
  11. TheBlindFreak

    Do they sell T3 implant packs? From what I understand, you'd have to buy the T1x6 packs, make some T2 implants, then use those T2 implants and hope you get the T3 implant you want. Making it incredibly costly (beyond the point your average subsciber is willing to pay) with absolutely no guarantee to get the desired implant.
  12. Xtrmviolence

    well anyway i'm sad that a good game like planetside fail were League of legend and Dota 2 succeded ... they could had added so much more and better cosmetic in order to make money ... instead of giving advantage to those who pay.

    In League of Legend/Dota 2 NOTHING gives you an advantage if you spend money and still those 2 game make so much more money than this higby game.(imagine if you had to pay consumable in LoL with PI or RP ..........)
  13. Ronin Oni

    No less than paying to not grind out 1000 certs...................
    • Up x 2
  14. RyanGUK

    Whilst your sadness is valid, you're forgetting something.

    Dota 2 and League of Legends are MOBAs.

    Planetside 2 is a MMOFPS.

    They're very different games with very different tactics & verrrrrrrrrry different ways of earning profit. Dota 2 for example, gets a lot of money for Valve from the Steam Marketplace. Planetside 2 just doesn't have that same revenue stream. As for LoL it's got a lot of faithful players and a big MLG backing.
    • Up x 4
  15. asdfPanda

    What are you trying to say? Planetside 2 is a pay to grind less game. You either have the choice of paying money to get a weapon, or grind for several hours to get a weapon.

    Paying seven bucks for a gun, or spend several hours grinding out 1000 certs for a gun. That's pay to grind less. It is the same for weapons.

    When I say broke, I mean that some of the implants are imbalanced. For example, the awareness implant auto spots enemies, and traces a line to your killer's location on the death minimap. That has the potential to ruin sniper gameplay. The effects may be minor in the long run, but it is broken in the sense that certain items and gameplay styles can be cancelled out via implants(concs, flashbangs).
  16. RyanGUK

    Awareness does have a counter if Snipers were concerned about that (or least I think it did?), I think that was their way of balancing that Implant. Agreed though, it is a pay to grind less.
  17. asdfPanda

    Silencer maybe? You may be right, but I'm not sure though.
  18. RyanGUK

    I think that was for the Death mini-map but I swear there was an Implant beginning with C which alerted snipers as to when they had been spotted.
  19. Ronin Oni

    I know that....

    What I was saying is that the new implant system is no worse than the pay for convenience we already have in the game, and in fact, probably not even as bad.

    700SC for 1000CP item is the best dollar to cert/time value in game.. there's also sales on 1000CP weapons lowering it to 350SC and I doubt there will be sales on implant packs.

    In short, buying implants looks like a bad $ to time trade-off comparatively. Of course, most my SmedBucks went to cosmies cause I'm a fashion ***** apparently. :p
  20. Camycamera

    damn, that's a real sad case for MWO. a damn shame.
    • Up x 1