[Suggestion] Delete Alerts.

Simple argument :

if (watch out for those "if"s cause if those "if"s aren't true, that means everything that follows isn't true either :xD).

so

"if" most people don't care about alerts
"if" most players in PS2 today aren't interested

why not just get rid of them once and for all? Just delete the damn things, no one is playing them anyway?

At least alerts try to usher players together, it's far away the least important issue you could focus on right now. As far as I can tell, when population is high, alerts works like a great player magnet and helps push players towards each other when it's low.

"If" most people don't care about alerts.
"Then" change alerts and make it fun.

As I've told you before the problem isn't even with alerts themselves, but the gameplay flow of capturing bases and how it encourages players to avoid the main goal of the game, creating bad gameplay loops in the process.

I kinda like alerts, while I do love the mindless meatgrinder farms I also like having an overarching goal,
Alert is the only form of meta that we have and I enjoy them, they do have issues,
but I don't think we should remove them, just refine them.
Also bring back air and max alerts!

But if no one is playing the game?

Imagine I organise a football tournament next weekend, get my friends and their friends to make a barbecue and have a nice day of fun.

Now imagine only two teams show up? No one is interested?

On top of that, in those two teams, most of the players, instead of playing football, decide to make a competition to see who can juggle the balls the most. They spend most of the game in a corner, juggling.

What do you do?

You cancel the football tournament... don't you?

I don't care about alerts per se, but I do care about the fact it encourages people to work towards a goal. Which is more than I can say for when there isn't an alert.

They could do with changing, yes, but not removing.

Free MAXes were a bit silly, but in general, yes I miss micro alerts. What I really liked about the kill count (free MAXes) alert was that it forced factions to rethink their double teams. If you keep double teaming the faction who are almost at their own warpgate you guarantee they win the kill count alert.

But it isn't "noone" I find its pretty evenly split, I've been grinding merit recently since I wanted the new cortium bomb,
So I've been focusing on the objectives, capping and defending and there seem to be a lot of people who care about the meta.
Sure there is (hopefully) a few meatgrinder on the map, where people don't care if they win or lose, they're just there for the mindless dakka, and I really enjoy those too, but we shouldn't remove the alerts, just like we shouldn't remove meatgrinder fights.
People enjoy both, keep both.

I loved the free max alert, as nso it was a fun time with the self-destruct,
I usually consider the self-destruct to be way too weak for costing 350 nanites, but when it's free it's super fun!
It was also funny that NC won most of those alerts because our AI max was useless at the time so we were all running Gorgons,
And Gorgons are amazing against maxes

Well, you or I can't really prove that one either way.

Except :

(I like what this "user" said in November 2018. He sounds like a smart guy if you ask me)

(fun fact, if you google planetside 2 alert, this was my top result)

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...lert-system-does-not-work-here-is-why.250879/

The point is that if the majority of players are not participating in a certain content, that "content" needs to take this into account so that the players who do participate can enjoy themselves

Good old NotsiMadz... I like your persistence (I am dead serious if you wonder)

Now that you accept somebody do not care about Alerts you propose to delete Alerts for everybody?

A couple of remarks:

1. There are many objectives/goals/rewards in PS2 (too many and in contradiction with each other, that's a giant design flaw). But the good side of it is that each one of us can find something to focus on in order to be happy to play PS2. That's good, isn't it? It is the nature of a Sandbox

2. You just figured out that some objectives work only if there is enough interest/motivation. If I like sniping all I need is go out and snipe. But if I like a Bastion Carrier I need support. And I if I like to win an Alert I need a ******** of support for a long period of time otherwise my faction will loose.

And now, the great philosophical question: Is PS2 a game designed for solo players, for team players, for cohesive and dedicated outfits or just a Bouillabaisse of things arranged together?

Alerts = Certs

Personally I believe that PS2 is designed for what ever you want to do.

During the busy times I see the whole gamut consisting of lone wolves, organised squads, armour and air specialists, damned cloakers, etc.

Is that what you meant by fish stew? (had to google that )

Thanks! I think ....

No it's not that somebody doesn't care, it's that not enough people care.

It's the same for any team game or sport, if you don't have enough people, you can't play. It really is that simple.


I get into this argument in detail in a thread I made in 2018 here -> https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...lert-system-does-not-work-here-is-why.250879/

I use a screenshot to illustrate and I explain all the points, one by one.


My persistance on the matter is due to 3 things.

1. I know what I'm saying is true. I've been saying it for many years. I've proven it, I've illustrated it, I've fact checked it, I've verified it, and in all those years, no one has denied that I was right. Everyone however disagrees, but that's not the same thing.



2. This is not what I signed up for.

I started playing this game in the beginning of 2013, PS2 had been out only for a couple months.

This game is advertised as a faction war in which teamwork and mass and group pvp matter.

It is not advertised as a gigantic open world sandbox grind and farm fest.

I downloaded this game in 2013 because I wanted to fight in that war, and that's what I did for many years. That's what I signed up for, that's what was advertised, that's what IS advertised, and that's the intended gameplay.

Not only that, but it's the only reason I play. If I wanted to just pew pew for no reason, I'd play any number of the other FPS games that are less old have better graphics, are more realistic and in which that is the only thing people ever do.

Planet Side 2 is the only FPS game that provides players with a lot more than that, in fact, I would say, where the heart of the game is, or was ... I play for the "a lot more than that". If I just wanted to shoot stuff for no reason, I'd play a better FPS than this.

That's what I signed up for, that's how the game is and still is advertised so I have to believe that that is still what the devs want.

If it isn't what they want, fine, delete alerts, and I'll go play a MMORPG or something. I mean it kills me that this game doesn't require grinding, that all or almost all of its content is available to new players from day 1, and all they ever do is grind and grind, even though they don't need to. While in other games, like Black Desert Online, everyone complains about the grind, but everyone does it cause they have to. It makes no sense!


3. For me, but not just for me, for anyone else like me who wishes to play the game AS INTENDED and AS ADVERTISED, this is game breaking.

It's literally game breaking. Either I figiht for something, anything, but something, or I don't fight. Fighting is a means to an end. Not an end in itself. At least for me, and other players like me.

So when that becomes impossible, the only option left is to quit. Which is crazy, because it means that the game is literally kicking players out of the game, players who wish to play as intended and as advertised.

_______________

now to reply to your points

_________________________________________

1. Sandbox.

Sandbox games have more freedom that theme park games. That's what makes them different to theme park games.

But that doesn't mean absolute freedom, and it doesn't mean -more importantly- that there isn't an intended way to play the game.

In PS2, you could organise a race, around each continent. You could organise an event, advertise it on reddit and get everyone to pull a Flash and race around each continent for hours and hours, one continent after the other.

And there would be nothing wrong with that. That's because it's a sandbox.

You could invite 4 of your friends to pick different classes, then go to the very corner of the map and role play together.

And there would be nothing wrong with that either, for the same reason.

But it isn't intended.

It's not a role playing game. It's not a racing game.

The difference with the Alerts, and conquering territory in general is like I said above, it's a team effort. You can't do it if too many players ignore it. THATS the problem. And if that is why you play, then not being able to do that can leave you with no other choice but to quit.

2.Support

yes exactly.

Sometimes you will win even though no one cares, but though it isn't random, it'll be by chance. In other words, not because of "skill, strategy and teamwork" which (again) is how the official PS2 account advertises the game.

That matters more than winning. It's not just about winning, it's about how you win. If you lose but put up a good fight, you still feel good about yourself. If you win simply because no one cares and no one defended the bases you were attacking, that victory means nothing.

So it's not simply about achieving victory, the whole point is trying to.


3. "And now, the great philosophical question: Is PS2 a game designed for solo players, for team players, for cohesive and dedicated outfits or just a Bouillabaisse of things arranged together?"

It's a faction war. Mass pvp.

That means you can solo or group or form a huge platoon, either way, whether you solo or whether you are platoon leader, normally, everyone is fighting together to reach the same objectives.

That's how it was designed 8 years ago.

Those who didn't, because they didn't wish to, or because they didn't know how to, participate in this faction war were integrated into the game in such a way that everyone was happy.

You could farm, you could grind, you could do whatever you wanted, and you could also fight for your faction as intended. And that "bouillabaisse" as you say worked really well, everyone was happy, everyone did what they wanted.

Today those who wish to fight for their faction can't. Not most of the time. Unless they've got a dedicated squad or platoon.

So if no one wants to play, then fine! Delete the alerts!

Just thought of something else :

I forgot to mention "why" or "how" this happens, and I won't get into this in any detail now, but I can say that the game itself actively supports this.

For example, spawns in biolabs actively support channeling players into that biolab rather than cutting it off.

Another example, join combat :

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...loy-you-where-you-are-the-most-needed.256193/

I can give you proof every day. All day every day.

Here's one, just now, in "real time" :





No one could care less about the alert.

And if you're wondering about TR, they just flow down the lattice like water on the path of least resistance while NC and VS fight in the biolab.

All zergs, once they take Ceres, head west. All zergs. Simply because it is closer. That's the only reason. That's what determines player behaviour in this "tactical strategy game with teamwork" what base is closer.

Also, I was trying to cut off the biolab myself, but NC defended, as you can see in the pictures, my mouse is hovering over that base and we are fighting. Meanwhile, TR GHOST CAPPED Dahaka south. I'm not kidding.


No one could give a rats *** about alerts, and anyone who would, can't do ****, just ******* delete them.

Maybe instead of why, how, or what is happening we need some solutions instead? What would you suggest that would make alerts more fun for the people who dont join alerts?

That's a good question.

But I think a better question is : "Do "we" even want alerts at all?" and if so, "why?"

In other words, is it even a problem in the first place?

I mean it's a huge problem for me. Personally. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a problem for "we"....



I'm convinced it explains why there are next to zero vets in an 8 year game, people need more than grind or farm or "fight for fun" if they are to stay in the game. So from that point of view, you could say it's a problem for DBG / Rogue Games. I mean I'm not a specialist, but in my experience, all MMOs value their vets. Having vets, or "old players" is a good sign. So not having any like in PS2 is a "bad sign". I could be wrong, of course;;

It's off topic, but the principle is the same in business, companies with a big human ressource turnover tend to be less healthy, less trustworthy, and focused on short term interests at the cost of long term. The "player turnover" in PS2 is HUGE! I mean, I look around sometimes, and it's like I'm surrounded by new players only, everywhere, as far as the eye can see.

It could also act like a vicious circle: Many new players will be perfectly happy to spend their gaming time in a phalanx at the Crown, shooting at stuff. For hours. You never see an experienced player doing that. So the behaviour, the interests, what players actually want evolves over time, and after a while, if there is nothing a little deeper, a little more meaningful, they get bored and leave.

As an illustration (but it's an over simplification, obviously) you could imagine a kind of graph that shows through the phases new players go through on the y axis as time goes by, a bit like this :

Shooting a Phalanx ---> driving vehicles --> discovering the infantry classes ---> GRINDING and FARMING and HAVING FUN FIGHTING (it's new players that need to grind, not BR ASP 100s) --> improving themselves and certing up, auraxing weapons.

See, there are exceptions of course, but new players aren't going to worry about the alert, they have so much stuff to learn first, and discover, and experience.

So it's only later, usually once they join an outfit and that outfit organises ops that they get introduced to what some people call "the meta". And that's normal, it's like that in most games.

But imagine if I, a 8 year experienced Planet Side 2 player, am having so much trouble fighting for my faction, attempting to achieve victories (whether it's saving a base, capturing a base, or winning an Alert) these now not so new players might give it a shot, but they won't insist like I do.

And after a while, fighting in a biolab, even though it used to be so much fun, just like spending hours in the Crown shooting a Phalanx used to be so much fun, after a while, it gets old. So they quit. Or they play less, and less and less, and they log in on Friday evenings only, once a week, for special ops, and that's it, until they eventually just quit.

I think that's the process, and I think that before answering your question, and before answering mine, that process (if true) needs to be understood, because you need to understand this kind of thing BEFORE applying new content or fixing existing content like Alerts.

So do "we" even want alerts? That depends who you ask, and before finding a solution I think it's important to clearly understand the problem.

The problem isn't simply "I want to play Alerts but no one else wants so QQ I whine and cry".

The problem is, what does this game have to offer, what can it offer, once "fighting for fun" becomes boring, and once the grind and the farm is finished, cause it always ends one day or the other.

And that, in all MMO's I've played, in particular MMORPGs is what they call : "end game content".

Omg, I had forgotten that NSO had been out so long that micro alerts were still a thing when it came out...how long is this project going to remain unfinished?

Notsimadz,

There is no need to prove what you say. I am the first one to say players do not care about alerts and that it is frustrating for the many (or few) who do.

Let me go back to the myriad of rewards/directives because to me, PS2 designers created themselves a perverse system in which almost nobody cares about winning an alert.

1. human beings follow the stick and carrot mechanism. We fear sticks but we do enjoy carrots. So to go in the "right" direction (whatever right means, hence the double quoting) either apply stick or carrot

2. PS2 is a game, so stick is usually reserved for anti behavior: killing allies (weapon lock) or harassing other players (temporary ban). Of course if you cheat you get perma-banned (hopefully) but that's another issue

3. That leaves carrots. So you have to give carrots to go in the "right" direction. Small carrots for minor achievements, big carrots for big achievements. Plenty of carrots.

4. What makes a "big achievement"? Let's think: Is PS2 a MMOFPS ? With bases and continents to win? Okay, then I would give the biggest carrot for winning a continent, a not-so-big carrot for winning a base and even smaller carrots for other actions (killing, rezzing, repairing, healing, ...). it takes more time and effort and dedication to win an alert compared to winning a single base compared to killing a poor BR2 just spawned in the wrong place because he selected the "Join Fight" button since he didn't know any better

5. Unfortunately, the carrot system is screwed. It is heavily tilted toward minor achievements (exclusive and prestige weapons and camo, high KDR, SPM, titles, XP, certs, ...) as opposed to winning a base (almost nothing compared to killing or rezzing) and a few certs or ISO for winning a continent.

I am not disputing the Alert is/should be in theory the pinnacle of an all-out war. I am merely saying that in practice the alert is just "yet another game-play option" among many others and far, far worse: the PS2 designers created an squad/outfit/faction MMOFPS in which the reward system (and the omni-present KDR, it will never be enough damned to Hell) steer players toward solo-oriented behavior.

You want people to play more alerts? Adapt the reward system accordingly.

Yeah, but I think one of the important things that makes humans different to animals is meaning, purpose.

Animals don't wonder about the meaning of life, they don't care about how or why they do what they do. That's why the carrot and the stick works so well for them.

Humans "need" a reason. In pvp games and sports, that reason isn't a carrot or a stick. In pvp, the biggest reason is competition.

That's what matters, that's what gives meaning to pvp players, and that what makes them keep playing for years and years.


I always use this example for this argument but I think it's the best example. If you were to consider that the game of tennis were an online game. You would find that it's a game that has next to zero content. No alerts, no combined arms, no huge map, no various continents, and not even more than 4 players and most often only 2.

Yet, in real life, millions of people don't just play that game, but watch it, pay a lot of money in Wimbledon to sit and watch 2 guys or girls hit a ball back and forth over a net. Over and over. Professionals spend their entire lives playing countless hours a day, hitting that ball back and forth, over and over.

There's hardly any content at all in tennis, and the map is a simple rectangle with a line in the middle. And all the game is, is a ball going back and forth and back and forth.

It's the competition that those millions of spectators and players care about. It's the scope talented players have to express themselves when they play. The depth of the game doesn't come from the content or the map, it comes from the players.

Higby had it right, it's the players that are the content. It's the players that create and maintain the content.


It's not that I want people to play alerts, I want an end game content, I want something to do beyond grinding and farming and "fighting for fun". I want something competitive, something to fight for, to struggle for, to work for, and to be proud of myself if I achieve.

A monkey could aurax a LMG.

My opinion is that the game doesn't give players the opportunity to do this. What players like, want, and find fun evolves over time. What a new player finds fun in the beginning he will find boring later. And content isn't the answer to that problem, competition is. Competition is what keeps tennis players hitting that ball back and forth, and it's what keeps old players in the game.

The fact of the matter is that today, even if players DID want to fight to win an alert, they can''t, just like I can't, the game, the state of the game literally prevents them from being introduced and enjoying that content.