Death Screen Feedback

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by TorigomaSET, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. Posse

    I already did, it's not because of them being overpowered, in fact, if you're good enough, you're only gimping yourself by using a shotgun. The problem is the frustration it causes on a new player to be instakilled (the same applies to all shotguns, not only the pumps/JH)
  2. x2cygnus

    So, in other words, you admit that you want to water the game down

    It is perfectly natural that newcomers who don't know how the game works yet are going to get shot more often than others, in one way or another. But every failure can make you a better gamer if you put a little thought into it. Every one of us was there!

    Because of the open nature of the game, in a slightly bigger fight, a higher-skilled player is bound to appear sooner or later, who will manage to take that pesky sniper down.

    On the other hand, when a squad tries to put more tactic into the game, and infiltrate the enemy position - this change makes the tactic void. As a result, you reduce the game ceiling as well.

    In conclusion - for the reasons above: The change is going to reduce the skill of the game and do more harm than good.

    Counter-suggestion: Give the death screen indicator only for BR below X (where X is a reasonably low natural number)
    • Up x 6
  3. Negator

    I can add nothing to what has already been said about death screen positioning. Its terrible.

    Make it available up to BR 20 though, and i wont care.
  4. HeroofTR

    Yesterday I noticed that death screen lags behind one death and by that deceiving player who killed him.

    Still don't understand purpose of this stats but looks nice. Also I absolutely love that you can see your dead body and firefight above it.
  5. Wobberjockey

    oh i'm sorry, what was i supposed to do? charge into the tanks that came down the road?

    or perhaps hide behind cover, and stay still until their engineers thinking it was safe, hopped out to repair. at which time i killed them.

    i chose option 2.
    after all. it's not like i ran into the tanks. they simply pushed past my position and pushed back the friendly force.

    so, again, this new system does nothing but hurt players who are flanking trying to take advantage of perceived safety.
    it doesn't even help new players not die, because if i was sniping defensively, someone is going to run back to that spot and try to kill me.


    i can't twitch like i used to. i got old. i admit that. but that doesn't mean i go out of my way to 'farm noobs'. i was extraordinarily angry and higby's assertion that that is why i don't like this system. from my scope i can't tell who the BR100's are and who the BR1's are. just the people who stop. the ones who think they are safe.

    and what this system does is force me to engage in the same twitch fest that the MLG pros and cod kiddies are going to kick my teeth in at.
    and that is a game that i don't want to play. period.
    that's why i chose planet side in the first place; because fighting on my terms from unexpected angles was a viable tactic.
    the fact that the current dev team feels it needs to be removed is a problem, and if it is removed, then this is a game i don't want to play
    • Up x 3
  6. ScrapyardBob

    In other words, just like in past cases, you are sticking your fingers in your ear and ignoring player feedback. Because you think you know better what your customers will like, even when your paying customers tell you they don't like it.

    New players complaining about dying from random things are players who are not going to stick around anyway. Not unless you dumb this down to a 6v6 fight with perfectly balanced weapons. Stop trying to change your product to chase the next rainbow. You're just ticking off your existing customers and causing them to leave.
    • Up x 8
  7. Wobberjockey

    i wonder if the dev team ever heard the old saw : your current customers are 5 times more valuable than your old ones

    it's not like they need to advertise to us to sell us new camo or new weapons
    they don't need to try to get us to download the game
    they don't need to pay for ads on a site to tell us about the game

    in short SOE needs to spend less money to get our money than someone who is kicking around on armor games who hasn't played planetside yet.

    which makes me wonder why they are insisting on a course that it seems the community seems so viscerally opposed to.
    • Up x 1
  8. Decian

    Wobber, they never heard 1 bad customer tells 7 people about his complaint, where for every 5 good customers usually only tell 1 person. Planetside 2 is getting the rep of a broken, laggy, dumbed down, crap mmo fps.
  9. KnightCole

    Nuh uh....the Infils get Xbow bolts that hurt armor now.....

    ffs...stupid *** crap that is..Anti Tank crossbow.....**** SoE...
  10. St0mpy

    Thats a bad strawman argument and you know it.

    Why is the final paragraph a bad argument? Who can predict the order of levels which come out of a spawn or area? There will always be a mix of levels and as soon as the so called noob farmer kills a higher level guy hes hunted down without the need for a killcam.

    Secondly, there are far fewer noobs than semi experienced players, and thats who its going to help most, the semis and fully experienced, we will kill the stupid noob who didnt move far easier now.

    Basically you (Higby) quoted good points why we shouldnt have it, then added your straw man at the bottom to try and justify why SOE should carry on with it. Reality: Its going to amplify hunting down of noobs and if the best argument you can come up with is the above then its clear its happening in spite of player comment, not because of it.
    • Up x 8
  11. Rohxer

    I really, really hate the idea of this thing in general. Forget whether I'm a sniper, CQB, LA, or whatever. My role doesn't matter.

    This is going to allow experienced players, and especially those on a team, to just totally wreck those with less experience. I would welcome it with open arms if it went away at BR 15 or 20. But giving this tool in its currrent incarnation to high BR people is an absolute mistake as it benefits them on both sides of the equation:

    1) As the aggressor, it will help them get multiple kills. If they know their victim knows where they are, and they know what path they will likely take to come back for them, setting up an ambush is trivial. I already do this when I kill a high level BR from a good spot and I know they saw me. More often than not those victims will return for vengeance, so I move to flank their return routes. With the new death screen I can do this for everyone now, not just those who I suspect saw me and are high BR. These kills will not show up in Higby's statistics; yet it's the knowledge that my low BR victims get the death screen that will allow me to dominate them. Oh, the ambushes I'll create...

    2) As the victim, it will turn something that was sometimes challenging (locating your killer) into something trivial. An experienced high BR will return to take out the less experienced player who got him.

    So for a high rank BR it's a win-win against a low BR/less experienced player. For low BR players, it may help them to learn how the game works, but not how to play the game. That only comes with experience (and teamwork), and with high BR players using this, I feel it will simply empower them to dominate low level BR's even more.

    BR 1-15 or 20, YES! Please give it to them, show a straight like to a big 'ol blinking dot every time. But make it go away after that.

    I am a BR100. I'm just an average BR100. And with this tool I will just destroy low level BRs, whether I'm the killer or the victim, I'll use it to my advantage.
    • Up x 3
  12. Revanmug

    That's the funny thing. They aren't fixing anything with a killmap. Newb players will still be completly lost with the current mechanic and they are still going to have their "random death."

    MBT still exist.
    Lightning still exist.
    Liberator still exist.
    Galaxy still exist.
    Bolt action still exist.
    People in unsual spot will still exist.

    Tanks are still going to farm. Killmap isn't going to help you because it's already pretty easy to see large vehicule constantly firing on your position. LA are still going to hunt them(at least try) with C4 as they currently do but then again, newbs don't have access to C4...

    Aircraft will be not even care because the only "danger" are other aircraft (which newb tend not to pilote because too hard), bursters weaponry (have to be bought at high price for dual or skyguard) and lock on weaponry (also have to be bought). I'm leaving dumb fire and tank AP out of this because we are talking of new and unexperience FPS player. AP guns also have to be bought.

    Leave us with infantry, the closest range fighting unit. The only one that can easily be kill solo without any expensive material. It is also the only type of unit that can be harder to see on the map because of their smaller size compare to vehicule. It's normally seen as the advantage of infantry. This Killmap works against that advantage.

    The reality is that they just made vengeance kill alot easier for everybody AGAINST infantry. The rest will still happen. Newb will still leave because they can't take random death and current player will be mad because SOE is starting to reward death.

    Question: How long before deathstreak reward? Maybe a Martyrdom implant? Sounds good.
    • Up x 4
  13. Wayfar

    My issue has been for a while that I can't see the devs' vision for the game or things they add to it. They don't come out and say "here is x y and z, here is why we want to add them", not to often. It is fun to figure things out as players. Like best way to use new weapons and the like. Though sometimes, I need a little more then "here is something new" without any explanation on how it fits into the overall goal of the game and communty.
  14. Chicken Wings

    Perhaps, as a solution, assistance with death information could be included in the "Integrated Tutorials" that are currently on the roadmap. Instead of giving exact information about who killed them and how, perhaps the game would inform newer players of what is was that did kill them, and give explanations on how to potentially avoid such killings or to counter the killers themselves. Call it a "death report," saying what it was that killed them, and at what approximate distance they were killed from, if over 50 meters, without giving any indication of location, and how they may avoid such deaths in the future. Just a thought.


    But before I'm flamed for saying "No, don't give the distance, that is just a kill-cam all over again," I would like to justify the idea.

    First, it would give no indicator of precise or even rough location. Further, if it were within 50 meters it would not specify how close within that 50 meters it was. Suppose you were killed by a knife. I think it's clear that you were killed, say, within 1 meter of yourself. This wouldn't require a distance reading. However, suppose you were killed by a sniper, I think it's clear that you were killed, say, between 400 and 100 meters. This is very different from knifing, but not so different as to require an exact distance from the killed player. This would only require a very broad estimate of distance, say, between 400 and 50 meters. Now, here's why I think there should be a distance reference, even if extremely broad and general so much so as to be extremely imprecise: it at least gives a reference for new players at what distances they are being killed from, so that at least they know what they should be on the watch for, approximately. However, because it gives no indication of location, it does not give so much information that it becomes unfair to attackers.

    Now, the death report would only give general information about what it was that killed them. For instance, in the case that you were sniped, it would only tell you about the rifle and the role of sniping, and the ranges and ways that the weapon is effective. In other words, information that is already known anyway, but might not be known to the player. For instance, if someone was killed by c-4, there might be an explanation of tactics used generally in order to kill someone with c-4. Again, no information about the exact situation, except a very broad range of distance where the killer may have been, this is the only exception, but only information that is general, for new players, so that they aren't confused and lost as to why they died to a headless Vanu LA with a button in his hand.
  15. DeadliestMoon

    Well seeing as how the date isnt even announced for the PS4, forgive me for not being inclined to see how they are "dumbing down" the game.
  16. Zagareth

    Whats the point, giving a lot and useful information to the victim while on the other hand the killer gets no information?

    Rewarding death?

    In case you don't know...
  17. smokemaker

    What about the new crossbow you just sold me.
    I purchased it to remain silent and hidden.

    Kinda screws that over doesnt it higby?


    didnt think so....
    • Up x 3
  18. Giggily

    Alright, here is what I think SOE should do, instead of going with this system:


    • Hit Indicator should be present several seconds into death to allow players the chance to get a better idea of where their killer is from.
    • Camera should orient to flip down and zoom out from the player's body without changing the direction it was facing, so no rotation, in order to keep the hit indicator consistent.
    • Minimap has been replaced with a different version. Clicking on the minimap or the expand button would open up the normal map tab.

    • The minimap would be a snapshot of the area where the player died.
    • The minimap and the map itself should get a new filter, basically team movement paths.
    • Teammates, dead teammates, the player's body, and whatever enemies were spotted at the time of death are visible.
    • Friendlies leave a dotted trail behind them in death, which fades after a certain period of time. The intention here is to allow dead players to see the routes their allies are taking.
    • Living friendlies, the player, and dead friendlies would each have routes in unique colors to make them easier to distinguish.
    The idea, here, is to prevent players from being able to look at a minimap and figure out what direction their killer was in, while providing examples of more successful routes. I don't like that idea for a couple of reasons, and at this point one of them is that I don't think that it's going to accomplish what SOE wants it to accomplish. The idea is to help players understand seemingly random deaths by showing them what direction they were being shot from, but that is already a system in the game, and that only solves one half of the problem.

    Showing new players where they were shot from is fine, because everyone can already see where they were shot from thanks to the hit indicators. I'm willing to throw out an olive branch here and say that the killing hit indicator should last longer for a few reasons. One, it accomplishes the same thing as the map, but requires a little bit more human input and intuition than just a simple line on a map. Secondly, it would help teach players to notice and be careful of hit indicators in general, so that before death they would be able to have a better chance of reacting to incoming fire.

    The idea of the minimap is to complement an increased awareness of where not to go by showing players where they should and shouldn't be going. By taking a snapshot of the player's time of death, and showing the paths that their teammates were taking, they can see what the safest route to their destination is. They can get a better idea of where the team is going, what the general flow of a base is as well. Similarly, specifying the routes that dead teammates took will help newer players avoid dangerous areas. Allowing players to click on the map from the death screen or just open the map normally and look at routes their team is taking in the hex would also be important. feel like this is probably the most helpful thing SOE could put in for new players besides a starting tutorial on how to read the in game map and outfit recruiting tools.
  19. NinjaTurtle

    This will be the day I quit this game for good. No joke. It will be that bad

    The current death vision is already making me question whether I should spend anymore of my time on this game
  20. salembeats

    The reason that new players "report" that they're leaving the game:

    "Random deaths" (and stuff)

    The REAL reason that new players leave the game:

    F2P Model and Recruitment Rewards combine for a lot of players trying this game out who normally wouldn't play this kind of game (they have little to lose for trying it, however).

    What this means:

    Since your target market seems to be anyone with a computer, the only way to have a high retention rate would be to dumb down the game to the point where anyone feels that they can do moderately well.
    That's why FarmVille did so well, retention-wise. It wasn't a zero-sum game. One player winning didn't mean another player losing. It was essentially "noncompetitive" so it didn't piss any casuals off.
    If you turn PS2 into a "noncompetitive" game to appease your dabbling casuals, you'll lose the support of your loyal players.
    Eventually, the dabblers you're trying to pander to will wander aimlessly to another game as well -- casuals aren't loyal to any particular game for very long.
    This means a shortened life expectancy (and lower profits) for PS2.
    • Up x 5