[Suggestion] DBG take a look at VS and fix them

Here are the three factions' weapons according to damage models:

LMGs:

NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
MGR-L1 Promise...... -- 143/698..............MG-H1 Watchman. -- 125/857.................Orion VS54... -- 143/750
EM1........................... -- 143/659..............T9 CARV............... -- 143/750.................SVA-88......... -- 143/698
LA1 Anchor................ -- 167/600..............MSW-R................. -- 143/750.................Pulsar LSW... -- 143/698
EM6........................... -- 167/600..............T9 CARV-S........... -- 143/698.................VX29 Polaris. -- 143/659
GD-22S..................... -- 167/577...............T16 Rhino............. -- 143/659..................VE-H Maw.... -- 167/600
NC6S Gauss SAW S. -- 167/577..............T32 Bull................. -- 143/652..................Flare VE6..... -- 167/577
NC6 Gauss SAW....... -- 200/500..............TMG-50................. -- 167/577..................Ursa.............. -- 167/550

ARs:

NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
GR-22.................. -- 143/800....................TORQ-9....... -- 125/857..........................H-V45.................... -- 143/800
Carnage AR......... -- 143/750....................Cycler TRV.. -- 143/845..........................Terminus................ -- 143/769
NC1 Gauss Rifle.. -- 167/600....................TAR............. -- 143/800..........................Pulsar VS1............. -- 143/698
Gauss Rifle Burst. -- 167/600....................T1 Cycler..... -- 143/750..........................Equinox VE2 Burst. -- 143/698
Gauss Rifle S....... -- 167/577....................T1B Cycler... -- 143/750..........................Equinox VE2.......... -- 143/652
Reaper DMR........ -- 200/500....................T1S Cycler... -- 143/698..........................CME....................... -- 143/652
NC-9 A-Tross....... -- 200/469....................SABR-13...... -- 167/600..........................Corvus VA55.......... -- 167/550

Carbines:

NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
GD-7F......................... -- 143/845.............LC2 Lynx........ -- 125/909........................Serpent VE92. -- 143/845
AF-4A Bandit.............. -- 167/632.............TRAC-5.......... -- 143/750........................VX6-7............. -- 143/800
AF-19 Mercenary........ -- 167/600.............TRAC-5 Burst. -- 143/750........................Zenith VX-5.... -- 143/723
Gauss Compact Burst. -- 167/600............LC3 Jaguar..... -- 143/750........................Solstice VE3... -- 143/698
Gauss Compact S....... -- 167/577............TRAC-5 S....... -- 143/698........................Solstice Burst.. -- 143/698
Razor GD-23............... -- 167/550............T5 AMC.......... -- 143/652........................Solstice SF...... -- 143/652
AC-X11........................ -- 200/500............HC1 Cougar... -- 167/577.........................Pulsar C.......... -- 167/577

SMGs:

NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
Blitz GD-10.... -- 125/845..........................SMG-46 Armistice. -- 125/896.................Sirius SX12. -- 125/845
AF-4 Cyclone. -- 167/652.........................PDW-16 Hailstrom. -- 125/800.................Eridani SX5. -- 143/750
MGR-S1......... -- 200/522.........................MG-S1 Jackal........ -- 167/600.................VE-S Canis.. -- 167/550-667

Sidearms:

NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
LA3 Desperado...... -- 167/500.................T4 AMP.......... -- 100/937.........................Spiker................ -- 167/480
NC4 Mag-Shot....... -- 200/351.................TX1 Repeater. -- 112/845.........................Beamer VS3...... -- 167/451
LA8 Rebel.............. -- 250/261.................TS2 Inquisitor. -- 143/531.........................Manticore SX40. -- 200/351
NC08 Mag-Scatter. -- 100x6/133..............TX2 Emperor.. -- 167/400.........................Cerberus............ -- 250/300

Source: http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons

As one can see, the NC generally has the same number of different damage models as the TR most often in the same ratios. The VS however does consistently lack an additional damage model compared to the NC & TR having almost exclusively variations on the 143/750 damage model. It is difficult to definitively say the NC has a more varied arsenal than either the TR, though they do have fewer or the same weapons of each type of damage model compared to the TR. The VS does lack variance in their damage models.

There are several approximate copies between the factions, such as the Promise--CARV-S--SVA-88, GR-22--TAR--H-V45, and Razor--Cougar--Pulsar weapon sets. TAGLINE

You clearly have no idea just how dysfunctional VS Leadership really is.

Zerging the TR Warpgate when we've lost our Tech Plant and have the most territory? Is that a sound strategy?

Secondly, FPSK is far from being actual leaders. They do their own thing, just like TWC2. DPSO at least makes an effort to play as a team.

And sure, I won't contest that Connery VS is used to being carried by FPSK. It disappoints me greatly that people allowed themselves to slack off.

Also, calling TWC the most "functional" Zergfit made me laugh. They teamkill as much as any NC - sometimes deliberately and for no reason - and a single platoon of them has the combined intelligence of a goldfish. PAL3 is just as bad, having been on the receiving end of their zergs, but at least they stick to a lattice for longer than a fight. TWC abandons fights as soon as they encounter a stiff breeze worth of resistance.

True. I actually just logged on for the first time in 3 or 4 months. But really, it can't be much worse than NC had it for the past 2 years.

I won't argue that. But they made up at least a full platoon each and every day, with the coordination most 12-mans could never reach. Even if they did use 3rd party coms, VTG1 still communicated well enough of the faction level. I haven't seen anything match what they did on any faction over the 2+ years I've been playing.

Its

Its not about the amount of different damage models, its about how effective they are. Watchman is complete trash it might have DPS but its almost entirely unusable because of its massive starting CoF. All the other TR guns are basically close range bullet hoses or mid range guns theres really nothing in the arsenal for long range fighting. VS is pretty much stuck at all mid range, they dont have the hard hitters for long range and very few DPS machines for close I can only think of 2 canis and maw. NC however has guns for all ranges close range bandit,gladius,GD-7F cyclone and Ill even throw in the desperado cause its a pretty cheese gun if you're being a stalker infil, mid range everything thats 167/600, long range gauss saw ,acx11, reaper, and atross.

• worst pistols
• worst SMGs
• worst carbines
• worst LMGs

• worst MBT

• worts ESF noseguns

• worst faction traits

• Best semi-auto rifles? -_-

• Wins majority of alerts

Welcome to VS club, bois

I have literally no idea how you could ever come close to that assumption. It is a pocket SAW, in fact with better DPS, and it has the traits of an SMG in close range. It's certainly the best SMG of the new batch, and probably one of the best SMGs overall.

I don't know how many thousands of times I have seen these overblown simplifications of faction-specific weapons, but they are just outdated and useless. I can agree on what you said about NC, but that's where it ends already.

This weird misconception about TR being inaccurate is almost infuriating by this point. TR weapons are perfectly easy to control, especially considering their bullet-hose characteristics. Guns like a CARV or TAR should be unusable after 20m realistically, but they work perfectly fine even in stupidly ranged engagements. If you simply burst your guns every couple of shots, there is no significant issue with bloom or recoil at all.

Then on the other hand you bring up probably the stupidest stereotype of them all, VS being more accurate and having no bullet drop. VS has low vertical recoil I guess, but that doesn't matter one bit, since vertical recoil is literally negligible. On the contrary, VS weapons bring randomized horizontal recoil that makes them less or just as controllable as the other factions. And I don't even want to address the "no bullet drop" meme anymore, it has been debunked as useless so many times by now. The guns profiting from that are the semi-auto snipers and the battle rifles. That's it. It doesn't give the faction an advantage unless you happen to run 4 specific weapons out of the entire arsenal.

Try bursting your guns.

Close-range VS weapons with high DPS: Orion, HV-45, Terminus, VX6-7, Serpent, Sirius, Eridani, maybe Maw.
Canis is terrible.

How does bursting help when you have too high a starting CoF?

On another note. VS just locked Esamir on Connery with 29% population. This thread can therefore go away. No even populations necessary.

VS horizontal random hop hop on some weaps is so annoying , i don't get why ppl think VS have accurate guns lol. The TR one are so much more accurate.

Main VS for a long time and then switch to TR or NC , it's god mode if you can burst it's just point and click, boom , dead.
The SABR (TR) is ********, so under evaluated, for anyone that want to learn how to burst , just start to practise with this gun, probably the best burst fire weapon of the game.

The only thing I hope VS have is SPA and and adv laser on the Orion to be on part the two other best lmg in the game...

Otherwise I don't care since i'm playing mostly infantry Medic/heavy and medics are fine.

Bursting your guns helps a lot, sure, but you have to know that any given weapon has an interval before the CoF decreases to the point where it can hit where you are aiming. TR guns being inaccurate is a true generalization of their overall arsenal in comparison to both TR and NC (although I can't say much about NC other than what I see of their hard hitting, fast firing, highly accurate guns on the test range, and when fighting against).

The VS Ursa is a good example to demonstrate this. Hold fire and it loses so much accuracy, burst fire and it still misses or even paints a portrait around where you are aiming, but wait a little between burst fire and it becomes accurate and effective again.

That wait interval is most punishing to TR's arsenal which rely on firing faster to leverage the lower damage and range.

Watchman is not trash, it's actually a very good gun when it decides to cooperate - when the CoF isn't ridiculous because of how strongly RNG impacts it, alongside other variables such as ghost bullets, network shenanigans, FPS in a given battle - and at close to medium range only, and when you're not stuck reloading or out of ammo.

One of the reasons why I hate VS carbines and try to stick to semi-auto rifles...

You cant really say that either tbh.
See post #41.
NC always have the slowest version of the 'sister' weapons, rarely tieing with VS for slowest but never higher.
Comparatively NC never has the 'fast firing' weapon.

I agree with the rest of your post, simply saying 'burst your guns' is woefully little information, which gun is being 'bursted' makes a hell of a difference.

In the end these discussions on how to "handle" guns in this game are pointless. This game has laughably little recoil across the board. Literally all you have to do is burst every 3-4 shots and pull your mouse down, and suddenly any gun is perfectly controllable, no exceptions.

Especially on the live servers virtually any gun is viable, because the average player doesn't really pose a great threat if you apply basic FPS skill and some thought to your gameplay. The only time when you actually rely on a loadout that is built around absolute maximum effectiveness would be when playing on Jaeger in competitive events, but hardly 1% of the playerbase ever sets foot on that server.

Should the same damage models not be roughly as effective across factions? Regardless if you actually compare the guns together you can see just how little variation there is at times.

Watchman is actually the most accurate LMG when fired while strafing. It is the only LMG with a strafing CoF of 0.3, whereas every other LMG has a strafing CoF of either 0.35 or 0.4. The high stationary CoF prevents it from being to powerful at range with Impact Ammo while the lower strafing CoF allows it to dominate in short-ranged engagements. It's a CQC murder-machine with a RoF meant to miss some shots. Guaranteed to pump the body full of extra shots. TMG-50 is meant to be the TR's long-range LMG. SABR and Cougar follow suit. Vanu scum have Ursa/Flare, Corvus, and Pulsar for mid-long range combat.

Bandit & Gladius trade ease of use for (theoretical) power in short range and tend to suffer outside their ideal ranges. (Gladius especially.) GD-7F is the equivalent of the Serpent and each are the answer to the Lynx. Cyclone is decent but overrated, and is roughly matched by the Canis and Jackal. Desperado is actually worse than the Spiker though the two are very close, while both are overshadowed by the Repeater and in some cases Inquisitor.

The only thing the NC does have special to them is the 200/~500 damage model. These weapons come with a host of their own private issues most notably the sole access to the loathsome 0.07 bloom per shot value. 167/600s are generally better choices for most combat scenarios.

Also personally I don't actually see the reason why the A-Tross has to exist. It's basically a Reaper with an even lower RoF in exchange for six bullets and a bit less recoil. I'd have preferred a Bandit-type AR instead. I know I prefer the Reaper over it already.

Here's a thread detailing why: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/discussion-gladius.249699/

The gist of it is that the Gladius is at the very best the same or worse than it's counterparts while offering truly nothing of merit.

"inferiority complex" is somewhere in the club name I hope?

Considering you claim the Magrider the worst MBT despite it being at the very least as good if not better than the Vanguard all I can say is "why dont you prove it?".

That's a very odd assessment. I see people objecting to your conclusion in that thread. When you start looking at reviews of the weapon on YT and how it performs, it is a very interesting and powerful weapon which is entirely unique in its weapon class. It is quite impressive how NC players manage to spin this into a negative.

Meanwhile, look at the train-wreck that is the Canis. A CQC weapon which reach Cyclone-potential approx. 2 seconds after you start firing.... Might have been actually useful if it had started at max RPM and rather than a spin-up effect it has a spin-down effect. Instead of the botched concept of newbie ammo the weapon would have been a high skill weapon which rewarded discipline/bursting while punishing recklessness.

People are free to disagree. However the raw numbers just don't ever favour the Gladius over the Cylone or Blitz, nor any other 200/~500 gun. The Gladius lacks range, accuracy, hipfire, magazine size... What little it does have compared to other 200/~500 guns is a grand total of 22 higher RPM and a 0.75x ADS movement speed.

Most YouTubers won't go around saying a weapon is hot garbage even if it is, and it seems to me personally that most players who speak highly of it are doing so without any real evidence or experience with the weapon. It's fine that some players do like the thing but there is no practical reason to. It's not even good on paper, yet so many people go and say "a 200 damage SMG is OP" or some such thing.

Canis is a spam-cannon. They could have made it a skill-based weapon but they didn't, they made something super point-and-click and therefore had to limit the pure effectiveness. And if you ask me a weapon which only requires that it be pointed near the enemy with a large magazine and increasing RoF is more than decent enough.

Then say it is your opinion instead of putting it forth as if it is the consensus. Seriously, you cited your own thread as your source.

522RPM with its VERY mild recoil is both good from the hip and in ADS. Like previously mentioned, if you're standing still and using it like a SAW you're doing it wrong. Cyclone is one hell of a SMG though, just count your blessings you have access to such a complete SMG arsenal. Also, SMGs have worse stats than other weapon classes (with some exceptions), e.g. highest ROF on 167/200 damage weapon with Cyclone/Gladius. That's not insignificant since it directly increase lethality in CQC.

So yeah, might not be superior to the Cyclone on paper in your eyes but that only means NC doesn't have two best in class SMGs. Instead NC has to settle with having the most complete SMG selection of all factions. Life truly is unfair.

Very good post, I fully agree. Implying that the Gladius is bad simply indicates a fundamental lack of skill with handling the gun. And there really isn't much the gun could become better at.