[Suggestion] DBG take a look at VS and fix them

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by BorgUK1of9, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. BorgUK1of9

    There have been posts now for over 12 months from many players including myself about the population imbalances seen on the servers and specifically how the VS is under popped at peak game times. Never winning alerts is becoming tiresome and even the vets are leaving or jumping empire.

    Players do not pick an empire which is harder or less fun to play in FPS games, its pure logic, its more fun being the killer than the victim.

    This problem was always coming since SOE didn't get VS right at Beta, from what they dragged over from PS1. Its got worse with the game changes and balances over the years, the nerf to C4 has affected our ability to deal with NC shielded MAX's for example.

    I would say that all the empires lack identity with too many NS vehicles and weapons compared to PS1 but that is a different story. However VS were technology, speed and agility; where has that gone.

    The ZOE on the MAX is never used by anyone, ever in 6 years, why because all it does is kill you faster, however you will always see all NC MAX's using shield. In PS1 VS MAX's had jump jets, give them that ability back.

    Putting the main gun on the front of the Magrider fixed would have worked better if the Mag didnt drive like a Saturday night drunk compared to the PS1 version, its very situational, useless in confined space fights and seems to be made of paper. If you cant change the tank to something like the PS1 version, then fix the tanks driving mechanics so it floats and maneuvers better.

    Lancer, I dont think its now on balance with either the striker or the phoenix, I know I hardly use it now from using it all the time. Its OK for sniping MAX's at range but with no scope your reliant on your 4K monitor to assist. Give it a 4x scope please.

    DBG you have better access to the stats, one question, are the VS the biggest NS users of all 3 empires, I know I am when I am on my VS character.
    • Up x 1
  2. adamts01

    VS loses more alerts than the other factions. https://www.ps2alerts.com/
    FAKE NEWS!!!

    VS does have lower populations.
    TRUE NEWS!!!

    VS is already doing more with less, which means better players and/or better weapons.

    If you're looking for equality of outcome, the solution is attracting worse players to VS and/or nerfing VS weapons.
    • Up x 5
  3. entity009

    The VS suffer from two problems that run deeper than any other.....teal and purple. Really? you know nothing about ps2 you have 3 empires blue/yellow, red/black and teal/purple...... If they were green/black I bet they would have much less of an issue.

    You can add in a ton of logic and over think it but to be honest alot of the player pop is just that simple.

    Blue/Yellow = most common colors in advertising
    Red/Black = The 2 most aggressive color choices
    Purple/Teal = Huh? Fabulous?
    • Up x 7
  4. pnkdth

    Fewer numbers can be an asset though if the measurement of success is alerts.

    Fewer numbers = no (or less) players stuck in queue = more cohesive force/outfits = more of the same players playing together = better organisation (if not through skill then through familiarity).

    Server Smash is probably the best example to show why it is a competitive edge since servers where forced to rotate outfits to prevent them from stacking their teams to always have "the best" team playing.

    That said, the outlier is the NC since both VS/TR tend to be very close to each other. It would be very interesting to see/hear the devs perspective on why NC is falling behind. I mean, we can discuss the reasons here till we drop but even if we end up being on point on certain things our understanding is superficial (limited by the data we have access to) and biased even at the best of times.
    • Up x 1
  5. Demigan

    Its more a problem with history than anything else.

    When the game began, VS had a lot of hilariously OP toys, and as the game progressed they kept getting more. PPA killed squads and platoons, Saron was an anti-tank sniper doubling as infantry murdermachine, ZOE dominated tons of fights, Lancers made any long-range vehicle battle pointless etc.

    The VS defended this from the get-go by claiming superior skill. NC only got the hillbillies and TR attracted facists, but the VS got the skilled one's! The fact that commonpool and carboncopy weapons like snipers, NS Guns and lightning Guns showed that the VS did not have any superiority unless using their faction-specific toys was glossed over and the first myth was born: VS is superior in skill.

    As OP things go, they got nerfed over time, a loooong looong time. With VS having so many OP things they started feeling to be the target of vicious attacks by the devs because of their "skill". This introduced the VANU inferiority complex: Everyone and their dog was obviously against them.

    The VS population only really started to drop when their longest standing OP toy got some nerfs. The devs had noticed that a particular range of LMG was too omniversally useful, making it great at longer ranges but with little to no backdraws in CQC. The Devs nerfed the weapon class, but due to the Orion and Betelgeuse being part of this weaponclass the VS assumed it was a direct nerf against their faction rather than to bring all of those weapons in line. At this point the VS suddenly lost a ton of players that felt cheated and finally had to fight a more fair fight against their opponents, damaging their "we are superior" ego and causing them to leave. The VS has slowly been crawling back in their numbers, but their higher alert wins remain.

    We still see tons of the backlash of these VS myths, such as claims that the Magrider is inferior despite it keeping up with the Vanguard in MBT kills per life and outperforming the Vanguard in things like infantry kills and Sunderer kills. But good luck telling that to them. The only option is to wait until enough people clueless of the passed have joined the VS and keep playing unawares of the myths.
    • Up x 5
  6. Sazukata

    And the biggest lie ever, was told.
    • Up x 2
  7. Gustavo M

    I find it cute reading those "fix population" posts like the devs can hire folks with the sole purpose to play a specific faction or something more... "surreal".
  8. Towie

    Unfortunately that site hasn't been updated in months so is showing old stats. Even fisu isn't correctly showing them.

    Since then there has been a general VS pop decrease over the summer on Cobalt BUT it's becoming more even lately so I don't think it's a real problem on this particular server. However there are other servers where the problem is very severe (Connery for example).

    I'd say that DBG do need to address 2 issues (that keep coming up over and over) :
    1. Double-teaming
    2. Underpop balancing
  9. DatBoi

    "Meteor strikes Earth, Vanu most affected."
    • Up x 6
  10. adamts01

    We have most of the data we need. Weapon accuracy. Player counts. Alert wins... I don't know of a graph of this, but we can even look at how many hours players are logging and when. We can see BRs of everyone in game.... There's plenty of data to make some pretty good guesses.

    As for what we don't know that could be helpful: Time spent on coms, average money spent, average size of friends lists... But when you think about it, I doubt Daybreak cares too much about those stats because it's nothing they can fix with balance.
  11. pnkdth

    The data we have is not contextual.

    Perhaps players use X weapon within a certain distance and wreck face but the majority use it differently and drags the stats down. Maybe people aren't using similar attachments. Perhaps they are farming instead of trying to take points. Squad cohesion and so on. VOIP data and such would be interesting too but I think it is easier for DGB to see how people move rather than monitoring 3rd party software (I always mute in-game VOIP and use discord/TS).

    And without context, a string of good guesses coloured by faction bias tend to end up with questionable conclusions. Even if they do ultimately seem plausible the margin of error is always there and worsen the more steps we take. In many cases it seems to lead to a particular resentment of an entire faction.

    In other words, it is easy for us to see that something is wrong but not necessarily why. How well a weapon should perform almost never comes up, it is usually a question of comparing each faction's stuff without a single consideration comes to how it makes sense in each faction eco-system.

    If we look at NC we got the NC MAX which on paper is doing pretty damn well. It is CQC focused and does that job like a boss. NC Infantry weapons tend to favour close/mid range instead of very close/CQC. How does this play out? Do NC have enough MAX units to make up for the lack of pure bullet hoses and CQC rapid fire weapons? It is the faction which loses the most alerts so this might indicate NC struggle to hold onto points. Or perhaps it is something in the way NC gets between bases since the Vanguard isn't exactly performing terribly well.

    Similarly it would be nice to know why VS/TR have been doing so well overall. Because there is very little separating the two factions in terms of alert wins. Yes, we can make guesses, even quite solid and educated ones but I want to KNOW because I am sick of tired of the same arguments over and over and over and over and over and over and over. No one changes their minds, everyone's right, and there is little to nothing achieved.

    Hell, I don't even need to know the specifics. Just some hint the devs are aware and every once in awhile share some info which helps the players. For example, I believe it was Higby who shared that X% of fights took place within a certain range. Before that we had an idea but after that we knew. That tweet added context.
    • Up x 2
  12. NXR1

    In what world is NC not the absolute king of CQC:

    Cyclone, second highest DPS gun in the game surpassed only by the canis
    anchor, lowest TTK of any LMG tied with MAW
    GD-7F, a slightly better serpent
    GR-22, copy and paste of the other factions equivalents
    of course the shotgun MAX's you mentioned (which btw have the highest effective range of any MAX weapon even surpassing blueshift)
    bandit, highest DPS carbine in the game
    and any 167 600 gun will absolutely dominate at CQC against just about anything the other factions have 167 600 surpasses 143 750.
  13. SanPelicano

    Purple is a kind of analogy. It's a mixture of blue and red like the Vs is between TR and NC, the third faction.
    I actually love purple. Dude it is the color of the Royalty. Teal could be the color of science.

    I think this color bias is the main reason why Vanu has a more adult player base. Newbies and kiddos want to be blue and red heroes, where adult players don't give a damn about it.
    • Up x 1
  14. pnkdth

    Not my point. I want to know how the entirety of the NC arsenal + vehicles work together. NC have lost the most alerts, by far, and both VS/TR have won similar amounts. So what is it that make NC lose significantly more. How important is it to dominate with high alpha damage? Something makes them lose battles and it has happened on too many servers for it being a coincidence.

    That is what I mean by data and context. We know the results but we don't know where and how.
  15. MonnyMoony

    ZOE was nerfed into obscurity years ago. I cant recall the last time I saw a Zoe Max.
  16. Sazukata

    Same here, it's probably the most underpowered ability in the game at present and I advocate for a rework to put it back in use. But take a look at the wording of what I quoted and how it removes the OP's credibility, hyperbole or not.
  17. iller

    Before you guys do all this worrying about how you're gonna make the VS even better Fighters.....
    ...how about you first address the bigger problem that neither majority of the AnCap Hillbillies nor the Dakka Collectivists actually want to fight the TumblrBarnies most of the time ... seriously, at least 65% of the time they're always sitting over 34% territory control on every continent you find them on.
    • Up x 1
  18. NXR1

    NC is the strongest faction and has the highest pop on emerald, because of this when alerts start NC basically owns the entire continent so the other 2 factions focus on purely attacking NC instead of each other since if they didn't NC would just win purely based on their numbers. So even with a massive amount of pop its 40% NC against 60% TR and VS and NC is spread too thin to do anything. The same happens to the other factions when they are cont stomping but NC has the highest player count on emerald so it happens to them the most.
  19. DatBoi


    NC is so strong the other two factions focus them down every single time? In my experience players tend to avoid fighting the stronger side.

    Perhaps a bit of time spent playing as NC would shed a little light on things.
  20. TobiMK

    I'm not sure I'm missing a joke here? In case you were somehow serious, ZOE was the single most overpowered ability/weapon/anything in Planetside and it had lasting effects on populations of entire servers for months even after it was nerfed.