Daybreak nerfs stuff that doesn't cause balance issues, ignores balance issues

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Sprant Flere-Imsaho, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Sprant Flere-Imsaho

    Seriously. They nerf equipment available to everyone such as C4 and the flash cloak, no balance issues; but they ignore radically unbalanced **** like the Mjölnir or Vulkan-H for months or longer. I already canceled my subscription. I wish I could do more to hurt their bottom line.
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  2. VeryCoolMiller

    thanks god they nerfed the bs of the invisible flash... one of the most annoying thing ever added...
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  3. Sazukata

    This vindictive attitude doesn't lend itself well to a level head.

    Either way, you need to understand that "balance" isn't objective. PvP game mechanics are catered towards an experience that the target audience will approve of.

    The forums and /yell chat are a rather small sample size to gauge the common opinion accurately, but I'd wager C4 is a larger point of contention than CQC topguns.
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  4. iller

  5. grazr

    The flash nerf was one of the better balance changes in recent patches and C4 has been problematic for tanks for a while due to how cheap and easy it is to take out a tank that costs a lot more nanites and is *supposed* to *tank* damage, yet can get "sniped" by a single infantryman.
  6. Clipped!

    You think the Mjölnir needed a nerf? Assuming the Planetside 2 wikia is accurate, it's got a fire rate of 1.66 rps and 90 dpr against any medium to large ground based vehicle, (105 to a Harasser), resulting in a dps of 144 against tanks and sundies. The Vulcan has a fire rate of 12.5 (after spin up time of about one second) and deals 36 to 25 dpr against any medium to large ground based vehicle (due to larger vehicles having a heavy 75% damage resistance to it's damage type), (57 to 40 against Harassers) resulting in a dps of a whopping 450 at at most, and a still obscene 312 at the minimum with maximum firerate.

    This means the Mjölnir (144 dps) can in no way compete against a Vulcan (450-312 dps) when shooting a tank or sundy. The Vulcan also has a 50% greater projectile speed (300 mps vs the Mjölnir's 200 mps) and standard bullet drop when the Mjölnir has a moderately heavy arc as it fires grenades rather than bullets. Combining that with the fact that a curved trajectory takes longer to complete that a straight one, the Mjölnir's projectile speed is actually more akin to 125 mps than it's listed 200. If anything, the Mjölnir needs a buff, as it's so under powered it might as well be shooting Bomb Birds than actual military grade anti-vehicle grenades.

    Just take a look at how much more powerful the Aphelion (the VS close range AV option) is compared to the Mjölnir with a fire rate of 6.67 rps (after spin up time of about one second), 50-36 dpr against tanks and sundies, equaling a dps of 333-240 when fired at full auto and ignoring it's "wave" mechanic. The Aphelion is also slightly more accurate than ether option and has the same bullet speed and the Vulcan with no bullet drop off.

    So the Vulcan doesn't just need a nerf decreasing it's damage falloff range, and also a decrease in ether fire rate or damage per round, but the Mjölnir needs a buff, likely a 50% increase in impact and splash damage (explosive splash doesn't affect anything other than MAXes and flashes) or a change in the splash's damage type to anti-material (the Archer's damage type) which deals only 40% less that listed to armored vehicles, rather than no damage at all.

    And speaking of buffs the HEAT tank cannons cannot one shot infantry who are using upgraded flak armor on a direct hit unlike every other type of single shot tank cannon on for both the lightning and all the MBT's as I've experienced such 4 times with a lightning since the update on August sixteenth change made HESH and AP shells do just that.
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  7. Sazukata

    Ehhh I dunno about those numbers, chief.

    The Mjolnir's 100rpm is how often it does a burst of 4 rounds. So the DPS is actually 4 times higher than what the raw numbers suggest.

    Also: The Vulcan's DPS vs tanks is actually 446.875. Not very honest to round up.

    Mjolnir's is 600 if all shots connect. Again, your mistaken findings should've been 150 but you rounded that down somehow.
  8. Clipped!

    The 4x burst messes with calculating, and I assumed incorrectly it seems.
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  9. Campagne

    I don't know what the actual DPS is, but even if it was nearly double the Vulcan (which it's not) the Mjolnir would have a much harder time of actually dealing that greater DPS. Lower RoF with a heavier drop and less accuracy and slower projectiles really stops the Mjolnir form being truly effective at any range outside of a touch.

    I'm not sure the logic follows through, 100 RPM per burst doesn't sound right. Just firing the Mjolnir off the top of my head I don't think it can achieve more than a single burst per second, if that. Also rounding 446.875 up to 450 isn't exactly "dishonest" in my opinion. :p The difference is so pathetic nothing would even change in practice.
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  10. adamts01

    The amount of Ambusher/C4 guys either as a gunner or driver in MBTs, and tankers hopping out to kill LAs is proof enough that things aren't right.
  11. OldMaster80

    Ok, have a nice day.
    • Up x 1
  12. adamts01

    NS weapons can be broken too. HESH just after CAI is a perfect example.
  13. Sazukata

    I never made any comments on effectiveness, just wanted to call out some fishy numbers. I likes me an informed discussion.

    But I agree with the assessment that the Mjolnir's extra AV DPS is offset by the difficulty in applying it past short range.

    100 RPM doesn't sound right to me either when I play it in my head, as that would be one burst per ~0.6 seconds. The refire mechanics might be weird so the 600 DPS I got is probably wrong.

    Rounding up to 447 or cutting off the decimal as 446, I would let slide. But adding or subtracting entire whole numbers is misinformation, even if it's effectively negligible. Call it a slippery slope if you want, I just like numerical accuracy.

    And let's not pretend there aren't forumsiders heavily prone to motivated reasoning and small propaganda techniques. :p
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  14. Gustavo M

    Stopped reading there. Both were gamebreaking and the nerf was well deserved. Try relying your "fun" in things that are intended;not on things that are overeffective. And your "fun" will definitely improve.
  15. tommyrocket
    ^A different discussion about the same thing.

    Anyone who's totally O.K. with the wraith flash nerf obviously hasn't tried it yet. It's trash. Not worth using, at all. Takes 25% of your energy to use, and still only lasts a max of 40 seconds at max rank. This means you can't even cloak if it's under 25%. Actually, it doesn't even last anywhere near that long now. They said they added 33% more energy at all ranks, but once again they don't understand that it's only going to last a set amount of time regardless of how much 'energy' it has. Increasing its 'max energy' didn't do diddly squat. Cloak 3 times, wait forever to recharge... Reminds me of their first 'fix' for the restoration kits, and how they didn't even know that from their own code that they have access to and we don't, that it was percentage-based and not flat values. /facepalm

    It runs out so fast it's basically unusable, and the flash weapons are pretty much suicide to use anywhere. If this nerf is to be justified, they need to increase the survivability of the guy driving the flash. It really needs an entire rework. The design as it is is complete garbage. The Pillager buff was nice, but it's very difficult to use still thanks to being so easy to kill as soon as you uncloak. Even if you're cloaked, it's not too hard to track before 50 ~ 70m either.

    Take back the 25% energy usage. Dial the cool-down down to around 3 seconds, and we're good. Another thing would be to ALLOW ENGINEER TO CLOAK IN A FLASH. If it's being nerfed this far, why not? It'd be nice to be able to repair while we have to wait forever on the cloak recharging.

    If not either of those, the base energy regeneration rate needs to be doubled or tripled. It runs out super fast and doesn't come back anywhere near fast enough. You'll spend more time uncloaked and vulnerable to everything than you do actually having 'fun' with the vehicle/weapons. Better off dying and getting a new Flash than waiting on your cloak meter to recharge.

    All I'm seeing here is people justifying the nerfs only coming from the receiving end. What about when you try to use it now, too? I promise the experience will be similar: nerf deserved, but this is going way, way too far. Dial it back a bit.
  16. AlcyoneSerene

    Vulcan was ridiculously overpowered long ago, then it was nerfed to oblivion which is when I used it on a harasser extensively with zero success because of how underpowered it was and how it's state then did not fit the harasser playstyle.

    Then more recently it got buffed (but i didn't get to use it) and on the receiving end it felt like a nightmare. Finally, the last adjustment to it was a nerf. I'm not sure where it sits currently. So this weapon has gone through a bunch of changes, especially lately.

    Mjolnir was ridiculously overpowered. The devs obviously agreed and so received a minor nerf maybe a month or two ago, I'm not sure of the time frame.
  17. strikearrow

    I don't know why they don't just change nanite costs to balance. Instead they change stats. If the flash is too powerful, then increase it's cost to 100 nanites or whatever. If the harasser is too powerful, then increase its cost to 300 nanites. The same for c4 or other items. If a particular vehicle weapon is too powerful, then increase its nanite cost.

    Changing stats is far more complicated to balance and clearly they do not have the brains for complicated. So they should just keep it simple stupid.
  18. adamts01

    It's borderline pathetic. If you're hunting tanks then there's zero reason to take it over the Halberd or Gatekeeper. I snuck up an a Vanguard, 5 meters away and opened up with a maxed Vulcan on its rear the other night. It immediately popped its shield and twisted half the damage to its side, and we were dead as the gun was reloading. **** CAI.

    It has to do with how interactions take place. Like my Harasser story. I perfectly snuck up on a Halberd AP Vanguard, who was completely out of position, and I didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning the fight. That situation should have favored the perfect ambush by the Harasser. That would be balanced because the tank could counter it by being even slightly aware.

    Take the cloaked Deci/Fury Flash. That tank wouldn't have even had time to pop his shield before it would be dead. Even if that Flash cost 450 Nanites, there's just not enough a tank outside of a zerg could do to avoid certain death. The Flash nerf is targeting all the wrong things, as that tank still stands no chance, it only has the consolation of knowing the Flash probably lost 50 Nanites after the tank was insta-killed. I say the Flash needs a 1 second per passenger warm up on its guns after it uncloaks, and that this energy draw and recloak penalty should go away.

    Say a rocket OHKs a tank from the front, but costs 750 Nanites. That would still be awful. Cost is important, but balancing interactions is more important.
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  19. Tr34

    Cloaked flashes with v-30f were OP, they did good with this decision. It was killing the point of playing with tanks.
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  20. Ragnarock

    To be fair, I think overall DB is doing a very good job of balancing things. C4 spam was a major issue(telling this as a c4 abuser myself) and the cloaked flashes were getting a bit ridicilous.